If Daima becomes non-canon to Super, then what was the point?

[Vegeta th3 4th]

I see all three of these sequels as their own independent takes on how the original story would continue if it picked up after the Buu arc's conclusion. Why else have Daima go back in time again?

Super and GT are definitely independent from one another, but Daima and Super can still be connected assuming a couple of things happen next week, mainly Goku losing his ability to use Ssj4.

[super michael]

I see all three of these sequels as their own independent takes on how the original story would continue if it picked up after the Buu arc's conclusion. Why else have Daima go back in time again?

Super and GT are definitely independent from one another, but Daima and Super can still be connected assuming a couple of things happen next week, mainly Goku losing his ability to use Ssj4.

I hope Goku doesn't lose his SSJ4, that would be the first time a potential unlock was temporary and never again able to access it.

[GokuHater]

Dragon Ball does not have an established cannon do I don't think that's too much of a problem :p

[JulieYBM]

The point is that we’re all going to pretend Super never existed and all this lore is brand new.

Why? I see no reason for anyone to have to do this.

You don’t have to do anything, but it would sure be great to leave that trainwreck in the past.

Daima is bad, but it's hardly offensive enough to speak so melodramatically about it.

[super michael]

The point is that we’re all going to pretend Super never existed and all this lore is brand new.

The lore in Dragon Ball Super is good, the only flaw is increasing the characters negative trait to maximum level. Some character were ruined thanks to that decision.

If they mess up the main character, then that affects the anime.

[Vegeta th3 4th]

I hope Goku doesn't lose his SSJ4, that would be the first time a potential unlock was temporary and never again able to access it.

It may only be accessed through magic, so technically he wouldn't lose it, but rather not have access to it without training in magic.

[JulieYBM]

They're probably just going to ignore the fact that Super Daiyan 4 wasn't used in previous Super projects and bring it back whenever.

[mecha3000]

Honestly, seeing the entire fandom, including people like Geekdom101 or MasakoX being SO SURE that Daima will tie-in to Super and not at all contradict it is just so funny to me.

Geekdom quite literally got everything right about this series, including SSJ3 Vegeta, those Majin gremlins, and SSJ4. Clearly his insider sources are reliable this time (unlike that time in 2019 where he swore DBS would come back).

If he says the final episode will link to DBS, I might believe it. So far he's been right about the new forms and new villains.

He can definitely be right. I never said he couldn't. It's just interesting how much Super is held on this canon pedestal that can't be contradicted (when itself already contradicts the original manga greatly). That's the consequence of having Super be the MAIN Dragon Ball canon for the past ten years.

At the end of the day, all of these YouTubers are trying to find in-universe reasons or head canons as to why Goku and Vegeta didn't use their Daima forms in Super. And I'm watching like "BECAUSE DAIMA DIDN'T EXIST BACK THEN! SIMPLE AS THAT!" Even Super Jayain said as much on a stream with Geekdom. I swear fans overthink these things.

[JulieYBM]

I'm pretty baffled by the notion from vocal individuals that Dragon Ball Super is being ignored in the more immediate future. New Dragon Ball can continue to be made that will inevitably reference the characters and events of Dragon Ball Super. Dragon Ball GT wasn't forgotten in ancillary projects, Super won't be forgotten, either.

[Vegeta th3 4th]

Daima, like GT, may end up being its own isolated thing, which is fine. Not everything has to connect to Super to be enjoyable. Daima could also go down its own road while Super continues down its road. Dragon Ball is one of the biggest franchises in the world; there's no reason it has to be tied down by one thing forever. I don't know if anyone's noticed, but Super is a convoluted mess. If I was given a say in how Goku's story should continue, then the first thing I'm doing is throwing out both GT and Super in favor of a fresh start from where Buu left off.

It's interesting how much Super is held on this canon pedestal that can't be contradicted. All of these YouTubers are trying to find in-universe reasons or head canons as to why Goku and Vegeta didn't use their Daima forms in Super. And I'm watching like "BECAUSE DAIMA DIDN'T EXIST BACK THEN! SIMPLE AS THAT!".

Daima initially started out as a side project at Toei, with Toriyama not being involved. This lead many to believe that it would be a simple side story that wouldn't contradict anything in Super considering it was the main series at the time. Toriyama however liked the idea and ended up even more involved with Daima than he was with Super, resulting in a show that honestly can't be considered a side story anymore. I do not think it's out of the realm of possibility that Toriyama took a hard look at Super and just decided to start over. He already ignored GT and Z's old movies, so it wouldn't be the first time he pretended something didn't exist. Considering the rights issues going on; I think Super will continue in manga form, while Daima continues the anime. We'll basically get two on-going stories at the same time.

[super michael]

I'm pretty baffled by the notion from vocal individuals that Dragon Ball Super is being ignored in the more immediate future. New Dragon Ball can continue to be made that will inevitably reference the characters and events of Dragon Ball Super. Dragon Ball GT wasn't forgotten in ancillary projects, Super won't be forgotten, either.

That is a good point you make, even though DBS exist they still put GT characters in Dragon Ball games. They are not going to stop adding DBS character just because Daima exist.

[Cybersai]

I mean the videogames will always use characters from every show, we know that, but that's not the issue. What is the point of making new TV shows without the intent for it to be canon?

This isn't like old 13 DBZ movies, they made these new shows as a continuation from DBZ. Even GT was (at the time in 1996), considered a canon continuation to DBZ. Making Super and then the movies after with Broly and Super Hero which are also part of Super (and the manga), and then to throw it all away after what is nearly 13 years now makes no sense.

They obviously knew making Super Saiyan 4 canon would create problems when Super just uses God forms.

[Vegeta th3 4th]

They obviously knew making Super Saiyan 4 canon would create problems when Super just uses God forms.

The didn't care about Super while making this, just as they didn't care about GT while making Super. Dragon Ball does not have a "canon", everything counts. Just as GT didn't go anywhere when Super was made, neither will Super if it turns out Daima is the direction they plan on taking the franchise. Keep in mind these are all hypotheticals, as we don't know how Daima will end yet. If Goku can't access Ssj4 without Neva's magic, if Vegeta decides to not use Ssj3 anymore, and if the Kais refuse, then everything (I think) lines up with Super.

[LoganForkHands73]

From the get-go, I went into Daima assuming that the show would only have tenuous connections to Super at best. It felt like Toriyama was going for another clean slate approach with it, writing another story set just after the Buu arc with almost none of the familiar elements from Super. The first episode kinda solidified that with a casual retcon about how Potara fusion works, and how Kaioshin and Kibito separated.

As for "what's the point", I agree with LightBing that if it's entertaining in its own right, will direct links to Super make it much more satisfying? Especially since Daima takes place before Super in the timeline? When push comes to shove, the revival era as a whole - which has already been going on about as long as the original manga run in its entirety - has been weird and fragmented from the start, with multiple branching continuity paths before you even get to the video games. What's one more between friends?

At this point, I don't think there's any satisfactory way to tie the two projects together. Goku has a version of Super Saiyan 4 now, which he clearly didn't have in Battle of Gods, or anything else except GT and Heroes. If that's not a final nail in the coffin, I don't know what would be. Not even the death of a major cast member, since Dragon Balls exist.

All that said, I have a feeling that Toyotaro may try to reconcile some of the continuity conflicts if he makes any more manga projects. Ever since his AF fanboy days, he's tried to tie continuities together, and he even did so in the latest manga chapter with a cameo from Olibu of all people. I wouldn't be surprised if Glorio and Hybis continue to make appearances alongside Beerus and Jaco.

[kemuri07]

They obviously knew making Super Saiyan 4 canon would create problems when Super just uses God forms.

The didn't care about Super while making this, just as they didn't care about GT while making Super. Dragon Ball does not have a "canon", everything counts. Just as GT didn't go anywhere when Super was made, neither will Super if it turns out Daima is the direction they plan on taking the franchise. Keep in mind these are all hypotheticals, as we don't know how Daima will end yet. If Goku can't access Ssj4 without Neva's magic, if Vegeta decides to not use Ssj3 anymore, and if the Kais refuse, then everything (I think) lines up with Super.

This is the only right answer: They don't care. And the fact that people will still argue against this point again and again is exhausting. Everything in DB is Canon; Everything in DB is non-canon. It's all the same. And Toei will liberally use whatever elements from all of Dragon Ball for a nice fanservice pop whenever necessary. That's all it is--fan service.

Shit is not that serious.

[Peach]

I really hate what this fanbase has become. Thinking anything not within a specific continuity is worthless.

Dragon Ball has decades of materials in different continuities and I dig it. I view Garlic Jr/Cooler/the Z movies, Yo Son Goku and his Friends Return, or GT just as important/valid as Super/Battle of Gods/Resurrection F.

In order for this franchise to continue to survive, I think we need to take a step back and stop viewing specific continuities as the only thing that matters. Look at Lupin the Third, so many different takes on that franchise after the death of the original creator. This is what Dragon Ball will become if we let it. Something that lives on in spirit with room for many different creatives offering their vision and voice.

We want Star Wars New EU levels of cohesion, but that may not be possible and that may limit creativity within dragon ball long term - especially with so many companies working on it. I think the important thing is we let the spirit of the characters continue and as long as they nail the core values of the characters, I’m open to new interpretations.

[Piramid89]

Daima is not going to be non-canon to Super.

How will you react once they leave the Demon Realm and ask Warp-Sama to send them back to Universe 7 and he says: Hmmmm... what will it be, 7A, 7B, 7C?

In one of those hundreds of doors, there's the universe of DB Super, where everything that happened during the Buu saga and before took place, but Goku is a much dumber and more childish character than the Goku from Z.

[super michael]

Canon and non canon doesn't matter, what matters is if the anime, manga, ova and movies are good.

I enjoyed everything about Dragon Ball Daima, I don't care if it fits with DBS or not. What Daima fits or doesn't fit with doesn't affect my enjoyment of it.

People might say GT is non canon, but to me that doesn't make a difference. What matters to me is if I enjoy it or not.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

Honestly, seeing the entire fandom, including people like Geekdom101 or MasakoX being SO SURE that Daima will tie-in to Super and not at all contradict it is just so funny to me. Like, it's so obvious by now that to Toriyama and the other creatives involved with Daima, that wasn't a concern to them. So, to see the fandom just LOSE THEIR MINDS over this is ridiculous. And with one episode of Daima left, it's very likely an effort won't be made to connect it to Super and that's something fans need to get over and just accept.

Also, I've never really been a huge fan of Super. I feel like it ruined a lot of things with Dragon Ball, but in recent years, I've grown to appreciate it for what it is and for being new Dragon Ball content. As a kid, I always wanted a new Dragon Ball series so having Super is definitely a win at the end of the day. Daima also fulfills that childhood wish of mine and in some ways, does it better than Super. I mean, having a canon SSJ3 Vegeta and SSJ4 Goku? Hell yes. So can't wait to own those figures. And for me, it's just nice to see the numbered SSJ forms matter again over Super's god forms.

So at the end of the day, if Daima isn't canon to Super, it doesn't ruin anything for me. The way I see it, Super, Daima, and GT are three different pathways following EoZ. In Super and Daima's case, they're midquels so they don't exactly follow EoZ, though. So when people obsess over canon with Dragon Ball of all things, I'm like, Super and Daima already contradict EoZ. And unlike the fans obsessing over canon, Toriyama was definitely not concerned with that kind of thing. Remember, he had an "anything goes" mindset. If a new idea came to him, I don't think he cared if it contradicted a previous idea. Look no further than him coming up with the idea that Goku was an alien WAY LATER into the manga's run even though he never intended that. That's what made him and Dragon Ball so fun.

You are 100% right. Goku can activate SS4 at will so already different to UI. Shin is unfused, Vegeta has permanent access to SS3, Goku's gi is different (I know this one means less but still) there is too much to do to make all these fit with DBS, Vegeta alone having SS3 already makes it impossible.

Side note, I found out today Bandai originally planned an adult SS4 Goku prize figure for April before removing him off the catalog last minute and added him to July... now we have to wait until May for the Kuji for the first figure...

[Jord]

The point to Daima was making money.

As it was for DB/Z/GT/Super/Heroes.
Companies don't care about canon, they care about people buying their stuff.

If people stop buying the intended products, they cancel it, like they did with the Super anime.
The Heroes video game got discontinued, so they cancelled the Heroes anime.

If people won't stop buying or there is a strong sense there is a demand, the product will continue or get revived.