Would you swap it all for your perfect ending?

[Adamant]

Freeza Saga: As usual up to the point when Goku hits Freeza with the Genki Dama, and Freeza returns.

Now...
Freeza kills Piccolo and Kuririn. Goku becomes pissed, and goes SSJ. He then tells Gohan to go get Bulma, as he and Freeza starts fighting. Freeza uses his "destroy Namek in 5 minutes"-attack. He then tries to escape, but Goku hold him back, and tells Gohan to escape the planet with Bulma. Gohan does, as SSJ Goku and Freeza stays behind, and are both killed in the explosion. The end.


Cell: Same. It's perfect.

Buu: I didn't like the ending at all. No Vegetto, no "revive everyone with the Namek Balls", no "old Kaioushin revives Goku". The return of Vegeta is acceptable, since Goku got a day at Earth as well, but Gohan must be the one to defeat Buu. Possibly with the help of Mr. Satan or something, but NOT GOKU. Stay dead, dammit. Oh, and they could kill all the Nameks too. The story is better resolved if the Drgon Balls aren't around. Make Mr. Satan the new God or something.

[PsyLiam]

If it ended with Freeza: Namek explosion takes out Goku. He then gets wished back to Earth with the third wish that brought back Yamcha. We're left forever wanting an SSJ Goku vs Vegeta fight. Bleh.

No, because if it had ended there GOKU WOULD HAVE STAYED DEAD!

Gagh, it's like talking to a brick wall. If Toriyama had ended things with the Freeza saga, it would have ended differently to how we saw it. Goku would have been killed in Namek's explosion (and wouldn't have been bought back to life for some reason). And Vegeta would have stayed dead, or spent the rest of his life wandering the universe looking for Goku (and never finding him).

[Xyex]

My take on how the series would have ended if the Frieza battle had been it.

The same up to the Spirit Bomb. Then, when Frieza recovered and tried to blast Goku, Piccolo would have died while saving him. Thus the Earth Dragonballs would be gone and there would be no wish to revive the Nameks, nor anyway to restore either set of Dragonballs. Krillin would have died, Goku would have gone SSJ, Gohan and Bulma may have left the planet (or Bulma could have left by herself, we know Gohan really didn't want to leave Goku there alone).

Either way, Namek would have gone boom, Goku and Frieza would be dead. Piccolo would be dead. Krillin would be dead. Yamcha would be dead. Tien would be dead. Chaotzu would be dead. Vegeta would be dead. The Nameks would be dead. Gohan may even be dead. No one would be revived ever again. The series would be over. Not exactly a 'warm and fuzzy' ending, but the show would have definately gone out with bang that way.

[oponok]

I liked the Buu saga, and I thought the final battle with Goku and Vegeta versus Kid Buu was really one of the most intense fights in all of Dragonball. The spirit bomb showdown was just awesome and, as with the whole fight in general wasn't too drawn out in the anime like most of the other "final battles." Leaving it up to the people of Earth to help fight Buu was quite an interesting element. And Mr.Satan helping out really added a cute, nice touch. The only problems with the saga are in my opinion:

1) The power level plothole. Is Kid Buu stronger than Super Buu? So that would mean Goku's been the strongest all along? What...?

2) Gohan deserved more. Either the battle with Super Buu (after he absorbed Gotenks and Piccolo) should have been more longer and more intense/dramatic, or he should have been able to participate with Goku and Vegeta when fighting Buu. Maybe instead of the spirit bomb, Gohan could've charged up an extremely strong Kamehameha or something while Goku and Vegeta stalled Buu.

"Vegeta was a total asshole in this one, and his constant whining and bitching got on my nerves..." Eh? Vegeta got mad like he usually does, but I don't recall him really "whining." You mean after he lost to 18? He beat up 19, got irritated at the androids for ignoring him, lost to 18, blew stuff up, trained, beat up Cell, let him attain perfection, final flash, got handed, trained, fought a Cell Jr, helped Gohan beat Cell. I just don't see the whining in their.

If you want a whiner, you want Future Trunks, "Gohan, I want to learn to fight! Gohan, let me go with you! Mom, don't talk to ME about Gohan! The Androids from the future are just too strong for me, Goku! They killed my master! Dad, we can't fight the androids until Goku decides it would be convenient to get off his ass! These androids are stronger than the ones in MY future! I won't let you destroy the future, Cell! I wanna impress my father!" Bitch, bitch, bitch. You wouldn't know he had Vegeta's blood. It must come from his mother.

And Vegeta's being an asshole? It's what he does. He wasn't exactly playing touch football with Goku and friends in the Saiyan and Namek archs.

Speaking of the Frieza saga, it would have been a good ending.

The Cell Games would have been an even better ending. I'd even have been kind of satisfied with this ending. Vegeta's fate is questionable, but it leaves us with a new image of Vegeta: one who at least respects his son and must now contemplate his existence as it nows has lost its purpose (well, besides being the strongest, which he apparently never lost sight of).

I just think too many great characters and events would have been left out had the story ended too quickly. Also, the character development of Gohan, Vegeta, and even Mr.Satan (he IS a champ on the inside... aww...) would have been cut short.

Anything Goku does after he fights Vegeta ruins the Buu saga (besides fusing with him). Think about it: We've SEEN Goku surpass everybody twenty times over. SSJ3 is just stupid. It'd been cool if just GOTENKS had reached it first. Seeing Gohan, especially Vegeta, Goten and Trunks and even Mr.Satan play hero is just much more interesting by this time.

[PsyLiam]

My take on how the series would have ended if the Freeza battle had been it.

The same up to the Spirit Bomb. Then, when Freeza recovered and tried to blast Goku, Piccolo would have died while saving him. Thus the Earth Dragonballs would be gone and there would be no wish to revive the Nameks, nor anyway to restore either set of Dragonballs. Krillin would have died, Goku would have gone SSJ, Gohan and Bulma may have left the planet (or Bulma could have left by herself, we know Gohan really didn't want to leave Goku there alone).

I think he would have kept Gohan alive. Having the only survivor be the one who doesn't want to fight in the first place (as well as being potentially the strongest) makes for a very interesting ending. I think Kuririn might have been kept alive, and Piccolo's death been what makes Goku turn Super Saiyan. Looking at the manga (and anime), that beam through the chest has "fatal blow" written all over it. I'd bet it was originally going to kill him, and that only changed when Toriyama decided (was forced) to carry on.

The idea of Kuririn and Gohan being the only survivors is a good one though. His best friend, and his son, continuing his legacy.

[Deus ex Machina]

I think the perfect ending would've been when Goku transformed into an Ozaru and crushed Pilaf's castle. No Androids, Saiyans, or Freeza. Ha! Take that!

[oponok]

How about the series ends when Bulma runs over Goku. No Dragonballs, no Roshi, no Yamcha, nothin'. Then they'd call it something like "Roadkill Boy," or "Happy Boy Car Smash Car Car Fun."

[Deus ex Machina]

How about the series ends when Bulma runs over Goku. No Dragonballs, no Roshi, no Yamcha, nothin'. Then they'd call it something like "Roadkill Boy," or "Happy Boy Car Smash Car Car Fun."

I like the sounds of that! Then the whole series could've been about Bulma being continiously harassed by perverts like Oolong and Roshi.

[oponok]

And GT's ending is terrible. A sad attempt to one-up the Kid Buu ending.

First of all, the fight sucked. It just involved Omega (who cares what his real name is), who is by far one of the worst villians of GT (though pretty much every villian created for GT sucks) knocking Goku and Vegeta away with one hit. And it wasn't one of those famous DBZ "I felt that" hits, it was just -Omega approaches, hits good guy once, they fly into a building. Wow. The best, most intense fight of GT, hands down, was Goku Jr. vs. Vegeta Jr. and that's sad.

So then they throw in a fusion, sort of like Vegetto, only it sucks! So not only does Super Saiyan 4 completely not fit the previous transformations, but Gogeta gets red hair and white pants, so... he... looks like NEITHER of the two fused characters. And he doesn't do anything cool. At all. And I didn't think Goku or Vegeta knew how to make doubles of themselves. And that party favor thing was just too non-dragonball. Yes, Gogeta's power was only surpassed by his f***ing retardedness.

After the Cell games, you really don't get a feel for how powerful anyone is, anymore. It was impressive when someone could kick Goku or Vegeta's ass, but in GT, the villians have just become so predictable. Vegeta, Cell, Frieza, and Buu (Fat Buu, at least) seemed like a threat, but Baby, Super 17, and Omega were just annoying. And we all knew Goku would kill them. There was NNNNNOOOO drama. All the other good guys became chumps and losers, and Vegeta never even trained to reach SSJ3 (like he has any other hobbies besides training, and the manga showed in the years after Buu that Vegeta was training with his son Trunks).

This brings me to my biggest problem. Goku literally becomes some kind of Jesus figure in GT. Why did everyone trust their energy to Goku when he made the spirit bomb? Didn't the Kid Buu fight show that people tend NOT to listen to random voices in their heads. And why did Omega's attacks have NO effect, at the end. Spirits bombs don't power-up the person who made them. If Goku was that strong as a normal Saiyan, why did he lose so pathetically at SSJ4? It makes absolutely no sense. The Kid Buu fight had Goku using up literally ALL his power, and would have lost had it not been for Vegeta (again). Also, why didn't Goku teach Uub the spirit bomb, or any of his own attacks for that matter? Aren't you supposed to teach pupils what you know...? While we're on the subject, why didn't King Kai teach Yamcha, Tien, or maybe even Chaotzu any of the techniques he taught Goku. They were STRONGER than Goku when they arrived at his planet. Did he FORSEE their future uselessness?

Oh, Dragonball...

...my head hurts...

[Deus ex Machina]

And GT's ending is terrible. A sad attempt to one-up the Kid Buu ending.

Yes, yes it is.

First of all, the fight sucked. It just involved Omega (who cares what his real name is), who is by far one of the worst villians of GT (though pretty much every villian created for GT sucks) knocking Goku and Vegeta away with one hit. And it wasn't one of those famous DBZ "I felt that" hits, it was just -Omega approaches, hits good guy once, they fly into a building. Wow. The best, most intense fight of GT, hands down, was Goku Jr. vs. Vegeta Jr. and that's sad.

I think their was a few villians worse than Yi Xing Long, but the fact that he was the final and 'most powerful' opponent of the series, made his flaws all the more obvious. I completly agree with you about their being no drama in that fight. It felt like nothing but an endless series of generic attacks going back and forth. Although I did think the Goku vs. Baby fight was good.

So then they throw in a fusion, sort of like Vegetto, only it sucks! So not only does Super Saiyan 4 completely not fit the previous transformations, but Gogeta gets red hair and white pants, so... he... looks like NEITHER of the two fused characters. And he doesn't do anything cool. At all. And I didn't think Goku or Vegeta knew how to make doubles of themselves. And that party favor thing was just too non-dragonball. Yes, Gogeta's power was only surpassed by his f***ing retardedness.

Heheh..."Gogeta's power was only surpassed by his f***ing retardedness." I think that's the best summary so far. Although I should correct you, Gogeta's white pants was a result of fusion, it had nothing to do with being SSJ4. Gotenks & Gogeta from DBZ both had white pants. Oh yeah, and Goku can use the Zanzo-ken [after image] technique, it's a fairly easy one.

This brings me to my biggest problem. Goku literally becomes some kind of Jesus figure in GT. Why did everyone trust their energy to Goku when he made the spirit bomb? Didn't the Kid Buu fight show that people tend NOT to listen to random voices in their heads.

I can't really understand this one either...it seems like a hlf-baked plot device just to get Goku more energy. Although it's possible that the people of Earth were so desperate that they would trust anything. In the Boo fight the Earthlings had collectively decided that the whole thing had never happened, or that the danger had passed. (Yeesh, if that's the average intelligence of a human, than Mr. Satan must be a genious)

And why did Omega's attacks have NO effect, at the end. Spirits bombs don't power-up the person who made them. If Goku was that strong as a normal Saiyan, why did he lose so pathetically at SSJ4? It makes absolutely no sense. The Kid Buu fight had Goku using up literally ALL his power, and would have lost had it not been for Vegeta (again).

I had to think about this one myself, and I only really came up with two ideas (Ones that make sense, and not just that Goku became magically invincible)

1. That Goku had infact died when he tried to stop Yi Xing Long's attack, and that somehow (perhaps with Shen longs help) he was still able to finish the battle.

2. That Goku had absorbed a lot of energy (Once again, perhaps somehow thanks to the dragon) that allowed him to stay alive long enough to complete the Genki Dama, even after suffering fatal wounds.

Also, why didn't Goku teach Uub the spirit bomb, or any of his own attacks for that matter? Aren't you supposed to teach pupils what you know...? While we're on the subject, why didn't King Kai teach Yamcha, Tien, or maybe even Chaotzu any of the techniques he taught Goku. They were STRONGER than Goku when they arrived at his planet. Did he FORSEE their future uselessness?

It's possible that Oob did know the Genki Dama, the focus of the entire story was on Goku so they didn't want Oob to be defeating any major villians. As for why Tenshinhan, Yamucha, and Chaozu can't perform any of Kaio-sama's techniques, is because this was an anime-only side story back in DBZ. Because in Toriyama's version those 3 never went to his planet for training, they didn't have those techniques. And so, they couldn't use those techniques later in the anime, without significantly changing the storyline set out by Toriyama. (I.E. A Kaio-ken powered Piccolo would've slaughtered #17, and Cell would never be complete)
[/i]

[James R. Cadwell]

As for why Tenshinhan, Yamucha, and Chaozu can't perform any of Kaio-sama's techniques, is because this was an anime-only side story back in DBZ. Because in Toriyama's version those 3 never went to his planet for training, they didn't have those techniques. And so, they couldn't use those techniques later in the anime, without significantly changing the storyline set out by Toriyama. (I.E. A Kaio-ken powered Piccolo would've slaughtered #17, and Cell would never be complete)

Tenshinhan, Yamucha and Chaozu did spend time on Kaio-sama's planet. Piccolo was also there for several days. I'd assume that neither of them learned Kaioken because they couldn't tolerate the strain. Saiya-jin physiology seems to be well-suited for tremendous increases in power (Oozaru, Super Saiya-jin), so Goku may have been the only one who could handle using that technique.

[Neon Z]

Tenshinhan, Yamucha and Chaozu did spend time on Kaio-sama's planet. Piccolo was also there for several days. I'd assume that neither of them learned Kaioken because they couldn't tolerate the strain. Saiya-jin physiology seems to be well-suited for tremendous increases in power (Oozaru, Super Saiya-jin), so Goku may have been the only one who could handle using that technique.

But didn't Tenshinhan state that he'd learn some of Kaio's techniques, but would add some of his own , so he wouldn't be as useless in the next battle?

He never stated that he didn't learned them, after all... so... doesn't that mean that he did learn them?

[Alias]

Trunks bland?

Not dramatic?

Not one bit. Overly melodramatic, yes. But not enjoyable dramatic. ^_^

I think I'm the only person that likes Chibi Trunks more than Mirai. There's some parts with Mirai Trunks that I liked, such as his relationship with his father, but those had more to do with his role, not his actual self. His personality was boring. Dull. Drab. Annoying. Etc. I've never liked him much. He just doesn't have a colorful, vivid sense of character like Vegeta, Gohan, Piccolo, or Kuririn. No matter how low the plot would sink, the rest of the cast was always so likeable that they were able to keep it afloat. Mirai Trunks just doesn't have the same spirit that the others do.

Cell, perhaps not the best villian (Freeza is in my book), was more of a warrior than most of the "Z" era villians, he depended on himself rather than having lackies do things for him, he used his own cunning, with the help of stealth to get the things he needed to do done, and when he finally reached his perfect form, he had a certain laid back arrogance about him, which I thought was cool.

I really dislike Cell. Like Trunks, he just wasn't very interesting to me. He didn't have a goal beyond "get stronger," and he lacked the pure power of personality that Freeza had (definitely the greatest villain). Sure, he was brighter than most DB villains, but he wasn't as fun to watch.

And wasn't the entire Cell Games dramatic enough for ya?

I mean, Goku Vs Cell was THE most exciting fight in all of DB, and do I really need to say anything else about SSJ2 Gohan, among the other stuff such as the final Kamehameha clash, Trunks' death thus Vegata's reaction, Goku's sacarfice....

The Cell Games was dramatic, yes. But only from the start of Gohan's fight onwards. The Goku VS Cell fight, to me, was boring. Lots of recycled animation and the same old punch-kick-blast fighting that became the staple of DBZ battles. The rest of the Cell Games are counted by me as part of the very end of the saga.

And I just loved the whole time travelling element of the Cell saga, and that we get an alternative world where everyone is wiped out and Earth is on the brink of being extinct

That was my favorite part of the Cell saga story (especially since it makes for lots of fanfic possibilities), but the stuff occuring in the present was... bland.

And there're certain points in the Cell saga where I found that reading the manga, you'll appreciate it more rather than watching the anime where it drags on (well, you can say this about any point of the series really).

I like the anime (usually, some points of the anime are awful) much more than the manga. The anime Cell Games was a thousand times better than the manga version. It was so great to see everyone pitch it to defeat Cell, from Piccolo down to Yamucha, rather than just standing around useless. The manga Cell saga was too, for lack of a better term, dull (not enough synonyms for that word!). It lacked the explanations and character development that the anime had. The anime made the Vegeta/Bulma relationship plausible. It showed the things that occurred in the Room of S&T. It gave lots of nice scenes from the break before the Cell games. Sure, throughout the entire series, there's lots of bad filler, but the anime has so much more character development and explanations that the manga just doesn't really compare. The emotion in the anime during scenes like Kuririn wanting to kill Vegeta and Vegeta's death at the hands of Freeza just isn't as powerful in the manga.

I'm going to be rewatching the Cell saga soon, so my opinions will probably change. I reached episode 44 of DBZ... only 247 more to go...

[Xyex]

Mirai no Trunks is one of the best characters in DBZ, and the second most developed (which is saying a lot considering how short his stay was). I've always loved his character, and cool look (especially with the long hair) dosen't hurt.

And yes, from a fanfic standpoint, Trunks opened up so many doors. Sadly, I've only done one fanfic with him as the focus, but I am planning another.

[Dayspring]

How is he the most developped? We get everything off him the instant he speaks with Goku. He's all teen-angsty because he lived in a warzone and lost his only friend and sensei. Cool yes, but no development was shown there.

[Muten Turtel]

I think if we end with Cell we can add a lot of closure which is why I want it to end their but, Freezer would have been the best enemy to end it on. If you think about it all things added up to Freezer I mean the start villian Radditz wasn't near Freezers level and the good guys had trouble beating him. The end of the Road seemed to be Freezer while villians like Buu and Cell came out of nowhere.

I didn't hate the Buu saga I just didn't like how every Dragon-ball Charecter besides Goku is left out. We see little of Roshi and Strong fighters like Piccolo (who is inbetween Super Sayain 1 and Ultimate Super Saiyan) and Tenshinhan (many powerful attacks) are abandoned. The Buu Saga pretty much focuses on People with Saiyan blood which carries over to GT.

Back to my original point is that in the Freezer saga Freezer is the most feared being in the universe which seems to change overnight because he is simplily defeated be Gohan and Goku without effort in Movie 12 and GT which also downplays Cell. Buu will always be feared especially with the regineartion that keeps him soo powerful but little closure is left especiall with the new ending http://www.eden.rutgers.edu/~vegex/mult ... ndex.shtml

This makes GT not a bad idea in theory but I think Toriyama may have been happy leaving new adventures open as he did in the end of Z, or he could have with Goku in other world at the end of the Cell Saga.

[koden]

(had to edit this...)

[PsyLiam]

A Kaio-ken powered Piccolo would've slaughtered #17, and Cell would never be complete.

No, he wouldn't have slaughtered him. There's a tendency amoung fans to think that the story is altered to fit the power-ups, rather than the power-ups being altered to fit the story. If Piccolo had learnt the Kaio-ken, then #17 would just have been made stronger to counter. The storyline demanded that Cell become complete, so Piccolo wouldn't have been able to defeat him.

Likewise, even if Yamcha and Tenshinhan had learnt the Kaio-ken, they'd have still become useless (or almost useless in Ten's case) in later sagas, simply because Toriyama became Saiyan obsessed.

[Xyex]

A Kaio-ken powered Piccolo would've slaughtered #17, and Cell would never be complete.

No, he wouldn't have slaughtered him. There's a tendency amoung fans to think that the story is altered to fit the power-ups, rather than the power-ups being altered to fit the story. If Piccolo had learnt the Kaio-ken, then #17 would just have been made stronger to counter. The storyline demanded that Cell become complete, so Piccolo wouldn't have been able to defeat him.

Likewise, even if Yamcha and Tenshinhan had learnt the Kaio-ken, they'd have still become useless (or almost useless in Ten's case) in later sagas, simply because Toriyama became Saiyan obsessed.

It wasn't so much that he became obsessed with Saiya-jin's that he'd inadvertantly written out the Humans. He'd not planned on the rest of the series when he made Goku and Frieza so powerful, and there was just no way for the Humans to catch up to the Saiya-jins. He really didn't have much choice.

[Sun_Wukong]

Did you HAVE to spol Wolf's Rain? I haven't seen beyond what Cartoon Network's aired.

Oops, sorry. I dont even know if CN plans to air the OVA ending >.<