Vegeta The Great

TGDweezl · Post by **TGDweezl** » Wed Jun 02, 2004 8:19 am

Would you also agree that we see Vegeta "grow" as a person more than say Gohan? We see Gohan from like age 5 up til he's an adult but he overall doesn't change much in character. Vegeta on the other hand appears with the total obsession of gaining the DBs and getting the immortality he seeks in order to kill Frieza and in the end he's married, a father of 2 children and seems pretty cozy where he's at considering he spent most of his life commiting genocide and travelling the far reaches of the galaxy as Frieza's cronie. If there's something the Vegeta fans out there should love about him is how much he "evolves" through DBZ.

Jerseymilk · Post by **Jerseymilk** » Wed Jun 02, 2004 8:41 am

Oh yes, definitely he changes a lot. No one here is saying there aren't valid reasons for liking Vegita. I like Vegita, especially he knack for shutting-up idiotic loudmouths with a punch to the face.

We're just pointing out that liking him for retarded, immature, or shallow reasons like as one nutbar in the letters I put the link to said: "He enjoys beating up little kids.", is well, quite frankly certifiable. Someone really needs to lock these people up, 'cause I'm scared for the future of society as it stands otherwise.

YouTube · Post by **Hujio** » Wed Jun 02, 2004 12:43 pm

TGDweezl wrote:Would you also agree that we see Vegeta "grow" as a person more than say Gohan?

I can't imagine how Toriyama felt about that.

I mean he wanted the end of the series to revolve around Gohan and he never expected Vegeta to become as popular amongst fans as he did. The hurt and pain he must feel inside...

PsyLiam · Post by **PsyLiam** » Wed Jun 02, 2004 1:40 pm

Maybe he was hoping to use the hurt and pain to turn Super Saiyan? He wasn't really an artist/writer at all; he was a megalomaniac bent on world domination. That's why he occassionally forgot things like "variation in plot" when writing DB. And it also explains why he can't remember anyone in it.

Xyex · Post by **Xyex** » Wed Jun 02, 2004 3:40 pm

koden wrote:I don't hate the dub, but Goku truly was given some retarded lines that really made him come off as an idiot... I remember the "I am the light in the darkness" one he gave Freeza, and that just made me mentally cringe, though that was way before I ever saw the sub in any form.

I liked that little speech actually. I've read some of the lines Goku and the others had in the original, and they aren't that much better than the dub lines. In some places, they're even worse.

SpiritBomb · Post by **SpiritBomb** » Wed Jun 02, 2004 4:07 pm

*laughs histerically* All I can say about those girls who love Vegeta that Jersey posted is four words.

Those.Poor.Stupid.Things

Mochi · Post by **Mochi** » Wed Jun 02, 2004 11:10 pm

Whats with this "Girls want bad boys" thing, anyways?

I think nice boys are better.

Alias · Post by **Alias** » Thu Jun 03, 2004 3:42 am

Goku...

It depends on where you look when you're trying to accurately describe him. Sure, the dub's awful, but there's some points in the anime and manga that are terrible as well. Early DB Goku (pre-22nd Budoukai) was a moron. Not pure, naive, and simple (he had no qualms about killing countless frightened RRA soldiers). Dumb as dirt and often gross (how many nude Goku scenes are there?) Z-anime Goku was usually made out to be a moron in the filler episodes (falling into Hell, Princess Snake, etc). Manga Goku was usually boring after the Saiya-jin saga. He just sorta lost of a lot of his charm and personality. To me, the only time when he truly was 'Son Goku' was from the 22nd Budoukai to the end of the Saiya-jin saga. Sure, he had fleeting instances of his old self later, but it would only be for a brief scene until he'd lapse back into a robotic version of himself.

It's all a matter of opinion and what you look at, really. If you read the manga, he becomes rather dry. If you watch the anime, he's often degraded or a moron. If you watch the dub, he acts like Superman. They all have their faults and good points. In the manga, he's a bit brighter. In the anime, he's got a lot more personality quirks and depth. In the dub... he doesn't sound like a castrato.

oponok · Post by **oponok** » Thu Jun 03, 2004 8:15 pm

Vegeta shouldn't be compared to Hitler. Vegeta is fantasy.

It's true that Vegeta has most of the cooler moments in the show. It's also true that he changes the most, in terms of character. And it's true that he fights the most. It's also true that he's the one who typically does most of the dirty work for either himself OR the good guys. It's true that the entire show is driven by Vegeta passion for something, whether it be for finding Dragonballs or killing Goku. Yes, Vegeta kills the most characters.

But who rescues the most? Who shows up at the end to give everyone hope? Who has the damn spirit bomb? Who can teleport...? Who sacrificed his life the most (though I think Vegeta's self-destruction is tied with Goku's Cell games sacrifice as one of the best scenes in all of Dragonball), and whose absense would've added that profound touch if the series ended after Gohan beat Cell?

I like Vegeta more. He's not lazy like that bum, Goku. But Goku is one of my personal favorites. He really does give off that "everything gonna' be okee-dokee" without being too corny (depends on version and/or moments), which is the opposite of Vegeta's "Fire! Destruction! Madness! Everything's going utterly and astoundingly awry! **** me! ****you! **** everybody! AHHHHHH!" feeling. I think his interactions with Vegeta are by far some of the best parts of the series, and an extremely important factor in the value of the show, besides Gohan's change to an adult.

I think Goku does have personality after the Saiyan saga, there's just no need for any further character development, after that point. We know what he's like as an adult by that time, and what Goku does is of no surprise and adds nothing to his character. We know he's heavily morally grounded, a little naive, and so on. The thing that really strikes me about Goku is his relationship with Chichi. He's not exactly a horrible husband, but they don't have the best marriage, but the series doesn't focus of that. In fact, it seems like Toriyama wanted NOTHING to do with women when it came to DBZ, and when he did use them, which was rare, they were typically bitchy. There's one romantic kiss in the whole series, and they don't even show the characters' faces, which is a nice touch. The show is TOTALLY focused on the father-son relationships and character development.

Frankly, I don't like Goku's voice in the Japanese version. At all. It just doesn't fit, to me. Ever. Adds nothing to the personality, as far as I can tell (then again, I don't understand anything he/she says, either). It's still kind of wierd hearing a woman scream when one might expect to hear a guy's voice. Sounds kind of plain, later on. The dub voice sometimes fits, but often just sounds either bad (Ginyu - Freeza fights) or too stupid. I believe Corlett supplied the best Goku voice, filling in that naive but not a complete idiot spot, nicely. I would've liked to hear his performance during the more dramatic moments, such as the Freeza or Cell fights.

What the hell was I talking about?

Anyway, it doesn't matter WHY people like Vegeta. Everyone likely has a favorite villian, it's just that Vegeta later turns into a good guy, later on, and that change is done in such a way that it makes the character interesting. He just happens to be the most badass character in the show, which CAN be a plus.

SpiritBomb · Post by **SpiritBomb** » Thu Jun 03, 2004 10:36 pm

Hehe..I made a thread people are debating in..GO ME!

Mochi · Post by **Mochi** » Thu Jun 03, 2004 10:44 pm

SpiritBomb wrote:Hehe..I made a thread people are debating in..GO ME!

I suppose you want some cookie dough for that... *hands Spirit cookie dough*.

Do you think Vegeta likes cookies? o.o

TGDweezl · Post by **TGDweezl** » Thu Jun 03, 2004 11:13 pm

Wowsers, quite the rant there. The fans like Vegeta mostly for his "badass"ness (that a word?) or his animated butt (?!). A true fan I think like him for how he changes over the span of DBZ. I never really got a solid answer from people who are Goku fans...although most of the response I've gotten are they like rooting for the good guy. But, I digress. Vegeta deserves the fans that he has, he does seem to be the most popular character along with Gohan. Although it does sadden me to see some of the other characters like Piccolo and Krillin get pushed aside when they are just as critical to the series as Goku, Gohan and Vegeta are.

oponok · Post by **oponok** » Fri Jun 04, 2004 7:22 pm

Ahh... We all love Piccolo and Krillin, too...

In fact, one of my favorites is Tien. He does relatively NOTHING in Z.

You must admit that he at least tries. Gives his life fighting Nappa. Stalls Cell while Android 18 gets away. He even fights Buu (albeit maybe filler). Still admirable, knowing he'd get butchered like an ox.

AN OX.

Yes.

I like Piccolo and Krillin. They're cute together.

B-kun · Post by **B-kun** » Fri Jun 04, 2004 7:25 pm

No, Tenshinhan fighting Buu was in the manga too.

PsyLiam · Post by **PsyLiam** » Fri Jun 04, 2004 10:12 pm

I think, deep down, that most Dragon Ball fans are Goku fans. They just don't pick him as their favourite because, well, it's too obvious. Like how no-one ever picked Optimus Prime as their favourite transformer.

You can remove Vegeta from the show, and it's still Dragon Ball (although maybe not as good). Remove Goku though, and you remove the heart.

Alias · Post by **Alias** » Sat Jun 05, 2004 4:24 am

Goku? A favorite? Bah!

Well, on the top few from the 22nd Budoukai to the end of the Saiya-jin saga... Earlier and later... bleah.

However, removing major characters would create a massive loss. If Piccolo, Vegeta, pre-Cell Gohan, and Kuririn were removed, I wouldn't be a fan of the show. Goku isn't good enough to carry it along without the others. All of them are parts to a bigger story, and the loss of one would create gaps that couldn't be filled by their comrades.

TGDweezl · Post by **TGDweezl** » Sat Jun 05, 2004 9:16 am

Granted Goku is supposed to be the main focus of Dragonball, removing the "supporting characters" you would've have no where near the fan-base it has. Piccolo and Krillin should've had a more important role in DBZ considering Krillin is Goku's best friend and Piccolo was Goku's biggest rival in DB who turned ally. But yeah, you can't get rid of everyone but Goku and expect it to still be popular.

The first episode of DBZ I saw was during the Namek Saga and was about Vegeta tracking Krillin, Gohan, and Dende. There was very little of Goku shown. I liked Vegeta right then and there, and Optimus Prime is my favorite Transformer.

PsyLiam · Post by **PsyLiam** » Sat Jun 05, 2004 9:14 pm

You can't get rid of everyone apart from Goku and expect it to be popular, but I think that, out of all the characters, removing Goku would hurt the show the most. It's his show, like it or not. Everyone else is there to support him. And they are important in that sense, but they're not more important.

SpiritBomb · Post by **SpiritBomb** » Tue Jun 08, 2004 4:13 pm

Mochi wrote:
SpiritBomb wrote:Hehe..I made a thread people are debating in..GO ME!
I suppose you want some cookie dough for that... *hands Spirit cookie dough*. Do you think Vegeta likes cookies? o.o

Maybe..Saiyans like everything,dont they? There favourite kind of pop is grape! Now, if Trunks offered me a drink I would take a root beer. Or cream soda..or ask if he had any cookie dough. Although, I already have some. Thanks Mochi! As for you question about the bad-boy thing, I dont know...one of lives mysteries. But I'm like you Mochi, you see on this Goku matter, I love Goku. Vegeta is just a funny guy to me, but Goku, under his stupidnes,is a lovable and caring guy. How come some people choose the jerk,then? I mean, dont these girls realize if they met Vegeta he'd be an ass but Goku would be kind? Geez..if there looking on looks too, dont they realize how enormous his forhead is?!

oponok · Post by **oponok** » Wed Jun 09, 2004 2:53 pm

You COULD get rid of Goku and just have Vegeta and the rest of the cast. Focus on Vegeta, then it will be kind of like a mix between Grand Theft Auto and Dragonball: senseless destruction and many lives lost.

Kanzenshuu

Vegeta The Great

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