What are you looking forward to more?

Jodaku · Post by **Jodaku** » Tue Jun 29, 2004 8:34 am

Super Sonic Warriors.

I'm bored with the Budokai series, even with all the things I've been hearing about Budokai 3, I'm just not really all that bothered about it.

Super Sonic Warriors on the other hand, well, that just seems gold to me. From what I've heard/read, it seems to be a cross of my two favourite DBZ games, DBZ Legends and DBZ Hyper Dimension. Then you throw in the "what if" stroy mode, this game has seriously got me wetting my pants in excitment.

And a quick word on Buu's Fury, well, after the disaster that was LOG1, to then actually enjoying LOG2 quite a fair bit, if the jump in quality between LOG2 and Buu's Fury is the same as LOG1 and LOG2, then we should be on to a winner. However, I think that will be asking for too much, a few improvments will suffice, espcially with the fighting system, then we should have a decent game on our hands.

Mugenmidget · Post by **Mugenmidget** » Tue Jun 29, 2004 3:43 pm

Xyex wrote:SSW is okay, but it's not as great as many people seem to think. I much prefer all other DBZ fighting games that I've played over it. Everyone's so hyped about the fact that it's air battles that the miss the fact that the battles pretty much suck.

That opinion may have some merit if you've never played against a human...because the AI isn't really up to steam.

But to say all other Dragonball Z fighting games are better? You may be confusing "battles [that] pretty much suck" with "easy to control battles that aren't as confusing as previous offerings."

Now I know that the previous games weren't all that confusing (especially after dealing with fighting games most of my life,) but the fact that Supersonic Warriors can retain the strategy and fun of a 6 buttoned fighter with standard circular motions is an accomplishment to behold.

I mean unless you have another reason why battles where you're free to go where you feel, counter moves, combo, and switch characters in mid-battle a la Marvel vs. Capcom for your GBA is something that "sucks," then please enlighten me.

Izlude · Post by **Izlude** » Tue Jun 29, 2004 5:51 pm

If you play the AI on Hell, you'll be seriously re-thinking that lol, god the AI can be nasty, but nothing beats human v.s human

I just wish Visual Boy Advance had a netplay option w/ kaillera or something...

Xyex · Post by **Xyex** » Tue Jun 29, 2004 8:25 pm

Mugenmidget wrote:
Xyex wrote:SSW is okay, but it's not as great as many people seem to think. I much prefer all other DBZ fighting games that I've played over it. Everyone's so hyped about the fact that it's air battles that the miss the fact that the battles pretty much suck.
That opinion may have some merit if you've never played against a human...because the AI isn't really up to steam.

But to say all other Dragonball Z fighting games are better? You may be confusing "battles [that] pretty much suck" with "easy to control battles that aren't as confusing as previous offerings."

Now I know that the previous games weren't all that confusing (especially after dealing with fighting games most of my life,) but the fact that Supersonic Warriors can retain the strategy and fun of a 6 buttoned fighter with standard circular motions is an accomplishment to behold.

I mean unless you have another reason why battles where you're free to go where you feel, counter moves, combo, and switch characters in mid-battle a la Marvel vs. Capcom for your GBA is something that "sucks," then please enlighten me.

How about the fact that the controls suck? Half the time I'm trying to catch the other guy who just keeps running away and firing ki blasts at me and then powering up quickly while I'm being knocked across the screen. Which is why I love the Budokai games, you can't do that.

Mugenmidget · Post by **Mugenmidget** » Tue Jun 29, 2004 9:46 pm

If their hit and runs are working on you, then you surely are not understanding how to play.

And can you cite specific examples on how the controls suck? For a GBA fighting game they are basically top notch due to using the shoulder buttons in a manner that allows several techniques without tying your fingers in a knot.

Xyex · Post by **Xyex** » Tue Jun 29, 2004 10:34 pm

Mugenmidget wrote:If their hit and runs are working on you, then you surely are not understanding how to play.

It's not just a hit and run, it's a never stop running. I can get around it most of the time, but then they just runn off again so that I can't catch up. Which is dull. Plus the way moving through the air works in this game is bad, very bad. Makes me happy with the system used in Budokai, very happy.

Mugenmidget wrote:And can you cite specific examples on how the controls suck? For a GBA fighting game they are basically top notch due to using the shoulder buttons in a manner that allows several techniques without tying your fingers in a knot.

They give you two of four buttons to attack with, that's it, two of four. Instead of dedicating a single button to switching characters (which isn't even used all the time in the story modes) and one to powering up they should have had all four buttons as attack buttons and used combonations for switching and powering up. Plus, needing to push three buttons to get off a super is stupid. There's no reason for that, none.

James R. Cadwell · Post by **James R. Cadwell** » Wed Jun 30, 2004 12:24 am

Xyex wrote:It's not just a hit and run, it's a never stop running. I can get around it most of the time, but then they just runn off again so that I can't catch up. Which is dull. Plus the way moving through the air works in this game is bad, very bad. Makes me happy with the system used in Budokai, very happy.

You can catch up with the A.I. instantly by holding down the "R" shoulder button as you move. Are you doing that?

Xyex · Post by **Xyex** » Wed Jun 30, 2004 4:32 am

This isn't the AI, the AI isn't a problem. This is other people. And yes, I've used the R button speed burst thing to try and catch them. I can catch up, land a few blows, but once they get away it's back to the energy stuff again.

Mugenmidget · Post by **Mugenmidget** » Wed Jun 30, 2004 2:00 pm

It's not just a hit and run, it's a never stop running. I can get around it most of the time, but then they just runn off again so that I can't catch up. Which is dull. Plus the way moving through the air works in this game is bad, very bad. Makes me happy with the system used in Budokai, very happy.

There is no system in Budokai, and the fact that they focused on air battle makes it the most flawless air fighter to date. If you're having problems "catching up" I don't know if your "friends" and yourself understand the game too well. I mean, I could say many games are unfun with a-hole friends, but when both parties know what to do I don't think this is an issue.

They give you two of four buttons to attack with, that's it, two of four. Instead of dedicating a single button to switching characters (which isn't even used all the time in the story modes) and one to powering up they should have had all four buttons as attack buttons and used combonations for switching and powering up. Plus, needing to push three buttons to get off a super is stupid. There's no reason for that, none.

There's no reason for a simple control scheme that is efficient on the hardware it was intended for? Explain.

Tuxedo Kamen · Post by **Tuxedo Kamen** » Wed Jun 30, 2004 2:18 pm

Mugenmidget wrote:

They give you two of four buttons to attack with, that's it, two of four. Instead of dedicating a single button to switching characters (which isn't even used all the time in the story modes) and one to powering up they should have had all four buttons as attack buttons and used combonations for switching and powering up. Plus, needing to push three buttons to get off a super is stupid. There's no reason for that, none.
There's no reason for a simple control scheme that is efficient on the hardware it was intended for? Explain.

Simple fighting scheme is fun for many fighting games, it worked extremely well for Marvel Vs. Capcom 2 and SuperSmashBrothersMelee.

Izlude · Post by **Izlude** » Wed Jun 30, 2004 3:27 pm

Xyex wrote:It's not just a hit and run, it's a never stop running. I can get around it most of the time, but then they just runn off again so that I can't catch up. Which is dull. Plus the way moving through the air works in this game is bad, very bad. Makes me happy with the system used in Budokai, very happy.

Weird, I've never seen the AI try hit and run really. Try dashing your way into your oppenent (Double tap any direction) or charge them (hold ki charge button, then press and hold any direction). I think the moveent in the air in this game is great, its really fast paced when you see how much potential your movements have.

Xyex wrote: They give you two of four buttons to attack with, that's it, two of four. Instead of dedicating a single button to switching characters (which isn't even used all the time in the story modes) and one to powering up they should have had all four buttons as attack buttons and used combonations for switching and powering up. Plus, needing to push three buttons to get off a super is stupid. There's no reason for that, none.

DragonBall Z Legends had the same setup just about, except in Buuku Tougeki/Super Sonic Warriors you get two melee/grappling buttons (Weak and Strong), pushing those two together when close lets you do a grab move, and holding just weak or strong well give you a limited block (the more hits you take, the more likely you'll be stunned), then you got the ki button, pressing that with the combination of weak or strong will let you fire off ki blasts of their respective strengths, and then the character switch button which comes in very handy because if you hold down a certain direction and hit it, your character will vanish and your teamate can appear behind, above or below your oppenent, perfect for countering their ki attacks.

Pulling of supers is pretty easy too, just hold down the Ki button and press weak+strong at the same time, its easy as hell, but blowing off supers our of your ass wont do you any good because they can be avoided/blocked pretty easy.

The controls and fighting engine in Bukuu Tougeki are excellent, it captures the true action of DBZ which the only other game out there that was capable of that is Legends on Saturn and PSone. Not even Budokai comes close with its confusing button/direction combinations to perform certain attacks.

Tuxedo Kamen · Post by **Tuxedo Kamen** » Wed Jun 30, 2004 9:28 pm

Izlude wrote:
Xyex wrote:It's not just a hit and run, it's a never stop running. I can get around it most of the time, but then they just runn off again so that I can't catch up. Which is dull. Plus the way moving through the air works in this game is bad, very bad. Makes me happy with the system used in Budokai, very happy.
Weird, I've never seen the AI try hit and run really. Try dashing your way into your oppenent (Double tap any direction) or charge them (hold ki charge button, then press and hold any direction). I think the moveent in the air in this game is great, its really fast paced when you see how much potential your movements have.

Xyex wrote: They give you two of four buttons to attack with, that's it, two of four. Instead of dedicating a single button to switching characters (which isn't even used all the time in the story modes) and one to powering up they should have had all four buttons as attack buttons and used combonations for switching and powering up. Plus, needing to push three buttons to get off a super is stupid. There's no reason for that, none.
DragonBall Z Legends had the same setup just about, except in Buuku Tougeki/Super Sonic Warriors you get two melee/grappling buttons (Weak and Strong), pushing those two together when close lets you do a grab move, and holding just weak or strong well give you a limited block (the more hits you take, the more likely you'll be stunned), then you got the ki button, pressing that with the combination of weak or strong will let you fire off ki blasts of their respective strengths, and then the character switch button which comes in very handy because if you hold down a certain direction and hit it, your character will vanish and your teamate can appear behind, above or below your oppenent, perfect for countering their ki attacks.

Pulling of supers is pretty easy too, just hold down the Ki button and press weak+strong at the same time, its easy as hell, but blowing off supers our of your ass wont do you any good because they can be avoided/blocked pretty easy.

The controls and fighting engine in Bukuu Tougeki are excellent, it captures the true action of DBZ which the only other game out there that was capable of that is Legends on Saturn and PSone. Not even Budokai comes close with its confusing button/direction combinations to perform certain attacks.

You made me want it even more...

Can't wait for my paycheck next week. I'm gonna hopefully buy this and or Soul Calibur 2

Xyex · Post by **Xyex** » Thu Jul 01, 2004 12:40 am

Izlude wrote:The controls and fighting engine in Bukuu Tougeki are excellent, it captures the true action of DBZ which the only other game out there that was capable of that is Legends on Saturn and PSone. Not even Budokai comes close with its confusing button/direction combinations to perform certain attacks.

The Budokai controls are smooth and love them, they work great. There's little that's confusion about the buttons. And the fact you need to pull off combos to fire ultimates in Budokai (as opposed to a just mashing a few buttons) makes it hell of a lot better. Budokai also has more depth (but then, so did HD) in it's combat system than SSW.

Izlude · Post by **Izlude** » Thu Jul 01, 2004 5:03 am

I cant stand the controls in Budokai (especially on GameCube! URAGH! GC controller was NOT MADE for fighters!), its like trying to perform combos from Tekken or Virtua Fighter and thats what I hate.

Budokai 3 better friggined pull out some Street Fighter style fireball and dragon punch motions! The other thing is, it would be nice if everyone had their own fighting style rather than using the same move over and over again

Budokai's depth doesnt come from offensive combat though, but rather defense. To be really good at Budokai, you got to know how to defend, I see people playing these games and they just mash buttons and try to memorize all the moves O_o But the best way to go is play defensivly and ya see an opening, try to go for a chain combo, and hell, ya might get a special attack out of it lol...

But I am really really really hoping for an total fighting engine re-haul in Budokai 3, even if it was something like Butoden or Hyper Dimension, that would be fine! I just wish Arc-System works was doing it...they are the new king of fighters, I mean comon, they did Guilty Gear! THEY RULE!

BTW, a 2D Super Hi-Res DBZ fighter would be hot, Arc-System works needs to do more DBZ games! I think we'll get something nice on the Nintendo DS...

Xyex · Post by **Xyex** » Thu Jul 01, 2004 5:24 am

The complexity of the combos in the Budokai games is one of the things I like, even after all this time I still haven't got them perfected, I still screw them up often. And B2 did have a few original motions for attacks. Vegetto has this bizarre kick combo (not a cap move but a 'normal' combo) that no one else does and there are a few other characters with unique comobs like that too.

I've never really seen the big problem with similar 'styles' for the characters. (It's not like they all had obviously different techniques in the series either.) No matter how they stand/fight it's still the same game. I wouldn't have carred if everyone had all the same moves period (save for ultimates of course) but they did add some varriation.

To tell the truth I'm surprised the Budokai fighting system has a combo system that's as developed as it is. People tend to forget DBZ's target audience in Europe and North America. The game would, of course, be catered toward that audience.

I've never played the GC version but I've played SC2 on GC and you're right, the GC controller sucks for fighting games, but that's not a problem with the Budokai games, it's a problem with the GC. And Tekken and Vitua Fighter are really good games, and though I suck even more at their combos the Budokai's, I still like them.

Street Fighter has dulled me lately for the same reason as MK. (Though I've not played anything from either in a while.) Everything's fairly simple and obvious in the control set-up. There's not much meat to it. It's the same with SSW. SSW IS Street Fighter, only without gravity.

PsyLiam · Post by **PsyLiam** » Thu Jul 01, 2004 2:19 pm

Xyex wrote:The I've never played the GC version but I've played SC2 on GC and you're right, the GC controller sucks for fighting games,

But Link is obviously far better than Tekken rejects and Spawn, so woo.

Zackarotto · Post by **Zackarotto** » Thu Jul 01, 2004 3:42 pm

Heh heh.

I have no problems with the GCN controller on SC2 aside from hitting certain buttons together (Like B+G or K+G) but if I really wanted, I could use the C-stick for that. It's the perfect controller.

PsyLiam · Post by **PsyLiam** » Thu Jul 01, 2004 6:08 pm

I dunno. I mean, it's a good controller in general, as long as the game is designed to use it (although the X-Box one does have better analogue sticks). But it really isn't brilliant for fighting games.

(And can someone please explain the idea behind "GCN"? Wouldn't that be like saying "ESN", or "64N"?)

Caracal · Post by **Caracal** » Thu Jul 01, 2004 6:18 pm

I never had a problem with Soul Claibur 2 for the GC. I just re-aranged the controlls slightly and it was sorted.

Zackarotto · Post by **Zackarotto** » Thu Jul 01, 2004 7:39 pm

PsyLiam wrote:(And can someone please explain the idea behind "GCN"? Wouldn't that be like saying "ESN", or "64N"?)

Yeah, it's weird. I guess they just thought it sounded better.

Kanzenshuu

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