Freeza, The Ginyu Force and Vegeta

JulieYBM · Post by **JulieYBM** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 10:27 pm

Poor Appulle.

Freeza mentions his parents being the only one's stronger or on his level and we finally meet Cold but have we any reason to believe he was all that active?

Freeza Heika · Post by **Freeza Heika** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 10:30 pm

JulieYBM wrote:Poor Appulle.

Freeza mentions his parents being the only one's stronger or on his level and we finally meet Cold but have we any reason to believe he was all that active?

We don't have any real evidence to speak of that he was flaunting his power, but we do know that he ahd a few planets under his control, because he had his own minons when he went t find Freeza. Also, when they went to Earth, they were in his ship with his minions.

Kroni_Hunter · Post by **Kroni_Hunter** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 10:35 pm

I always liked to believe that Frieza was stronger than his parents, just because the whole gimmick for the Namek Saga was that he was the absolute undisputed best. It would kind of cheapen the story if a one shot character like King Cold was actually stronger. Yeah I remember the episode where Frieza says "No one has ever caused me pain before, except my loving parents" sounds more like they beat him as a kid before he could do anything about it.

Post by **Herms** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 10:50 pm

Going by the manga, Cold isn't stronger than Freeza, but the anime makes him out to be. We had a discussion about it in this old podcast thread.

Freeza Heika · Post by **Freeza Heika** » Tue Jul 29, 2008 1:50 am

I like to think that Cold is stronger and my reason is purely unfounded and bias. I just like their race so much that I like the idea that one of them could potentially be stronger than Freeza, which means that they all aren't weaklings.

SSj_Rambo · Post by **SSj_Rambo** » Tue Jul 29, 2008 3:01 am

Freeza Heika wrote:I like to think that Cold is stronger and my reason is purely unfounded and bias. I just like their race so much that I like the idea that one of them could potentially be stronger than Freeza, which means that they all aren't weaklings.

If you do want to believe the manga and still think that Cold is in someway stronger than Freeza than you can just assume that when we see Cold he is in his first (or lowest) form and that he too is capable of undergoing transformations that drastically increase his power level. As far as I know there is nothing in the manga or Daizenshuu that contradict this theory, but there could be.

This is the theory that I subscribe to, only I believe that even with his transformations Cold will not surpass either of his sons (kind of like how Gohan (and Goten has the potential too) constantly surpasses his father). I do like the theory because like you said, it doesn't make them seem like the weakling that Trunks made them out to be.

Xyex · Post by **Xyex** » Tue Jul 29, 2008 3:11 am

Also, the warriors that Babidi had under his control could have been stronger than Freeza. We can't get a good gauge of Pui Pui's power because he is so swiftly defeated, but he seems as though he "could" have been more powerful than Freeza.

If Pui Pui was even half of Freeza's power he could have killed Vegeta withou the whole 10x gravity stuff. There's no way Pui Pui's any stronger than 2nd form Freeza at best.

Pain · Post by **Pain** » Tue Jul 29, 2008 3:21 am

Xyex wrote:
Also, the warriors that Babidi had under his control could have been stronger than Freeza. We can't get a good gauge of Pui Pui's power because he is so swiftly defeated, but he seems as though he "could" have been more powerful than Freeza.
If Pui Pui was even half of Freeza's power he could have killed Vegeta withou the whole 10x gravity stuff. There's no way Pui Pui's any stronger than 2nd form Freeza at best.

Are you serious? No way!

SSj_Rambo · Post by **SSj_Rambo** » Tue Jul 29, 2008 3:26 am

Pain wrote:
Xyex wrote:
Also, the warriors that Babidi had under his control could have been stronger than Freeza. We can't get a good gauge of Pui Pui's power because he is so swiftly defeated, but he seems as though he "could" have been more powerful than Freeza.
If Pui Pui was even half of Freeza's power he could have killed Vegeta withou the whole 10x gravity stuff. There's no way Pui Pui's any stronger than 2nd form Freeza at best.
Are you serious? No way!

I agree with Pain on this (wow), there is not way, based on Vegeta's performance's against Pui Pui and First Form Freeza in the manga, that Pui Pui's power level could come anywhere close to even Jeice's, let alone Second Form Freeza.

goodguy777 · Post by **goodguy777** » Tue Jul 29, 2008 3:30 am

Xyex wrote:
Also, the warriors that Babidi had under his control could have been stronger than Freeza. We can't get a good gauge of Pui Pui's power because he is so swiftly defeated, but he seems as though he "could" have been more powerful than Freeza.
If Pui Pui was even half of Freeza's power he could have killed Vegeta withou the whole 10x gravity stuff. There's no way Pui Pui's any stronger than 2nd form Freeza at best.

That's strange for a physics wanna be, each of the Kaiohshins can beat Freeza with a single shot. Kaiohshin felt a threat on Pui pui, Yakon, Dabura, Boo and Babidi's Magic (Not Babidi but his magic).

Pain wrote:
Xyex wrote:
Also, the warriors that Babidi had under his control could have been stronger than Freeza. We can't get a good gauge of Pui Pui's power because he is so swiftly defeated, but he seems as though he "could" have been more powerful than Freeza.
If Pui Pui was even half of Freeza's power he could have killed Vegeta withou the whole 10x gravity stuff. There's no way Pui Pui's any stronger than 2nd form Freeza at best.
Are you serious? No way!

SSj_Rambo wrote:
Pain wrote:
Xyex wrote: If Pui Pui was even half of Freeza's power he could have killed Vegeta withou the whole 10x gravity stuff. There's no way Pui Pui's any stronger than 2nd form Freeza at best.
Are you serious? No way!
I agree with Pain on this (wow), there is not way, based on Vegeta's performance's against Pui Pui and First Form Freeza in the manga, that Pui Pui's power level could come anywhere close to even Jeice's, let alone Second Form Freeza.

I think Xyex is sick because he overloaded his brain with strange physics.

Pain · Post by **Pain** » Tue Jul 29, 2008 3:34 am

SSj_Rambo wrote:
Pain wrote:
Xyex wrote: If Pui Pui was even half of Freeza's power he could have killed Vegeta withou the whole 10x gravity stuff. There's no way Pui Pui's any stronger than 2nd form Freeza at best.
Are you serious? No way!
I agree with Pain on this (wow), there is not way, based on Vegeta's performance's against Pui Pui and First Form Freeza in the manga, that Pui Pui's power level could come anywhere close to even Jeice's, let alone Second Form Freeza.

Harsh, dude. lol

SSj_Rambo · Post by **SSj_Rambo** » Tue Jul 29, 2008 3:43 am

Pain wrote:
SSj_Rambo wrote:
Pain wrote: Are you serious? No way!
I agree with Pain on this (wow), there is not way, based on Vegeta's performance's against Pui Pui and First Form Freeza in the manga, that Pui Pui's power level could come anywhere close to even Jeice's, let alone Second Form Freeza.
Harsh, dude. lol

I didn't mean for it to seem harsh, just that I thought he was overestimating Pui Pui a bit.

I do however now feel that my analogy of Pui Pui to Jeice is totally inaccurate, I guess I totally forgot who I was comparing right there. I do however, still believe that Pui Pui was weaker than Second Form Freeza, but since there is no solid evidence to determine whether or not that is true I see no point in trying to argue it.

*Nine Hundredth Post!*

goodguy777 · Post by **goodguy777** » Tue Jul 29, 2008 4:02 am

SSj_Rambo wrote:
Pain wrote:
SSj_Rambo wrote: I agree with Pain on this (wow), there is not way, based on Vegeta's performance's against Pui Pui and First Form Freeza in the manga, that Pui Pui's power level could come anywhere close to even Jeice's, let alone Second Form Freeza.
Harsh, dude. lol
I didn't mean for it to seem harsh, just that I thought he was overestimating Pui Pui a bit.

I do however now feel that my analogy of Pui Pui to Jeice is totally inaccurate, I guess I totally forgot who I was comparing right there. I do however, still believe that Pui Pui was weaker than Second Form Freeza, but since there is no solid evidence to determine whether or not that is true I see no point in trying to argue it.

*Nine Hundredth Post!*

Each of the Kaiohshins can beat Freeza with a single shot, Freeza was a joke for any Kaiohshins. On the otherhand, Kaiohshin felt a threat on Pui pui.

Pain · Post by **Pain** » Tue Jul 29, 2008 4:28 am

goodguy777 wrote:
SSj_Rambo wrote:
Pain wrote: Harsh, dude. lol
I didn't mean for it to seem harsh, just that I thought he was overestimating Pui Pui a bit.

I do however now feel that my analogy of Pui Pui to Jeice is totally inaccurate, I guess I totally forgot who I was comparing right there. I do however, still believe that Pui Pui was weaker than Second Form Freeza, but since there is no solid evidence to determine whether or not that is true I see no point in trying to argue it.

*Nine Hundredth Post!*
Each of the Kaiohshins can beat Freeza with a single shot, Freeza was a joke for any Kaiohshins. On the otherhand, Kaiohshin felt a threat on Pui pui.

Kaiohshin's description on Freeza:

http://www.mangafox.com/page/manga/read ... 7/page.14/

Kaiohshin's description on Pui Pui:

http://www.mangafox.com/page/manga/read ... 21/page.5/

The result is Pui Pui is stronger than Freeza.

You aren't supposed to send links to online manga like that(Vegetto EX says it's a big No-No). You've gotta scan your own individual pages that you want to show us, I think.

goodguy777 · Post by **goodguy777** » Tue Jul 29, 2008 6:25 am

Pain wrote:
goodguy777 wrote:
SSj_Rambo wrote: I didn't mean for it to seem harsh, just that I thought he was overestimating Pui Pui a bit.

I do however now feel that my analogy of Pui Pui to Jeice is totally inaccurate, I guess I totally forgot who I was comparing right there. I do however, still believe that Pui Pui was weaker than Second Form Freeza, but since there is no solid evidence to determine whether or not that is true I see no point in trying to argue it.

*Nine Hundredth Post!*
Each of the Kaiohshins can beat Freeza with a single shot, Freeza was a joke for any Kaiohshins. On the otherhand, Kaiohshin felt a threat on Pui pui.

Kaiohshin's description on Freeza:

http://www.mangafox.com/page/manga/read ... 7/page.14/

Kaiohshin's description on Pui Pui:

http://www.mangafox.com/page/manga/read ... 21/page.5/

The result is Pui Pui is stronger than Freeza.
You aren't supposed to send links to online manga like that(Vegetto EX says it's a big No-No). You've gotta scan your own individual pages that you want to show us, I think.

Sorry.

Xyex · Post by **Xyex** » Tue Jul 29, 2008 7:28 am

Giant quote blocks.

Er, right. Point.

I agree with Pain on this (wow), there is not way, based on Vegeta's performance's against Pui Pui and First Form Freeza in the manga, that Pui Pui's power level could come anywhere close to even Jeice's, let alone Second Form Freeza.

I didn't say he was as strong as 2nd form Freeza. Just that I don't see him being any stronger than 2nd form Freeza. And even if were even with 2nd form Freeza, Vegeta's easy dispatch of him is entirely possible. By the Buu Saga Vegeta is at least 6 times stronger than 2nd form Freeza, IMO.

Each of the Kaiohshins can beat Freeza with a single shot, Freeza was a joke for any Kaiohshins. On the otherhand, Kaiohshin felt a threat on Pui pui.

You actually answered this issue yourself.

That's strange for a physics wanna be, each of the Kaiohshins can beat Freeza with a single shot. Kaiohshin felt a threat on Pui pui, Yakon, Dabura, Boo and Babidi's Magic (Not Babidi but his magic).

Emphasis added to point out what I'm talking about.

We know for fact that the Supreme Kai can't sense powers worth shit. He's cluless, time and time again, about the powers of those around him. I mean, damn, he saw frigging SSJ2 Gohan just a few minutes ago. And now he's saying that Pui Pui is a threat? Someone Vegeta then killed, with ease while in base. But he wanted to gang up on him? He's standing right beside these people, he's witnessed Gohan's power first hand, and he's utterly clueless about their powers.

This tells us the Supreme Kai can not be trusted to gauge powerlevels. Ever. In the slightest. And in fact, he can't really sense them that well as it is. I mean, if he could, he wouldn't be so damned clueless about how strong everyone is when they power-up right beside him.

Thus we know he wasn't scared of Pui Pui because Pui Pui was strong. He was scared of Pui Pui because Pui Pui was a Majin. The one thing he feared more than anything else in the entire universe.

I think Xyex is sick because he overloaded his brain with strange physics.

Yes. Your bizarre concepts of how physics work did quite likely give me brain damage.

You aren't supposed to send links to online manga like that(Vegetto EX says it's a big No-No). You've gotta scan your own individual pages that you want to show us, I think.

You should probably remove the links from your quote block, too.

And actually, we don't do scans here normally. Just quotes and page numbers are all you really need.

omegacwa · Post by **omegacwa** » Tue Jul 29, 2008 12:45 pm

I know I could be wrong, but I am pretty sure at this point in the series, Base Vegeta, and for that matter, Base Goku, could Kill Freeza at 100%. I am not saying it would be a push over, but yeah.

SSj_Rambo · Post by **SSj_Rambo** » Tue Jul 29, 2008 5:24 pm

I know in the VIZ manga when East Kaioshin is talking about Buu he describes him as capable of defeating Freeza with a single blow. If this line is accurate than it makes me think that defeating Freeza easily is pretty significant for East Kaioshin (I'm not saying that he's not stronger than Freeza, just that he doesn't seem as far above Freeza as the big text quote block said he was). Of course I don't know if this is an accurate translation or not, so I may be totally wrong there.

Thanos6 · Post by **Thanos6** » Tue Jul 29, 2008 5:28 pm

No, I think he said any of the Kaioshin's could defeat Freeza in one blow.

Post by **Herms** » Tue Jul 29, 2008 9:10 pm

Yeah, he says all of the Kaioshin (including himself) were capable of defeating Freeza with a single blow. The reason he mentions Freeza is that after he explains how Buu wiped out hundreds of planets, Vegeta gloats that the Saiyans did that. I'd assume Kaioshin uses Freeza as an example because he was the one who wiped out the Saiyans, so saying how far above him all the Kaioshin were and how they weren't able to stop Buu puts things in perspective.