This has probably been brought up before.

[Captain Awesome]

I refuse to believe the Daizenshuu in its saying that Goku had only a power of ten at the beginning. Perhaps that's going against "canon", but that concept has just always bugged me. If the farmer was around three (please correct me if I'm wrong), there's no way that Goku was only a 10.

..I think he was actually five

[SSJ2bardock]

I refuse to believe the Daizenshuu in its saying that Goku had only a power of ten at the beginning. Perhaps that's going against "canon", but that concept has just always bugged me. If the farmer was around three (please correct me if I'm wrong), there's no way that Goku was only a 10.

..I think he was actually five

It really doesn't make any sense, I'm assuming the farmer didn't have any martial arts training an he was half as powerful as Goku who was trained by a martial arts master? Not to mention Goku could get shot by bullets and live.

[Pain]

I refuse to believe the Daizenshuu in its saying that Goku had only a power of ten at the beginning. Perhaps that's going against "canon", but that concept has just always bugged me. If the farmer was around three (please correct me if I'm wrong), there's no way that Goku was only a 10.

..I think he was actually five

It really doesn't make any sense, I'm assuming the farmer didn't have any martial arts training an he was half as powerful as Goku who was trained by a martial arts master? Not to mention Goku could get shot by bullets and live.

Well that's how ridiculous the whole power level thing is.

[Captain Awesome]

Well that's how ridiculous the whole power level thing is.

Agreed.

It's just that when we as fans are handed such a (deceptively) simple system of ranking character strength, it's hard to let go of it and make way for the much easier "This person is stronger than this person" way of thinking.

[Pain]

Well that's how ridiculous the whole power level thing is.

Agreed.

It's just that when we as fans are handed such a (deceptively) simple system of ranking character strength, it's hard to let go of it and make way for the much easier "This person is stronger than this person" way of thinking.

If we could let go of that concept, then the Saiyajin through Freeza saga would be meaningless.

[Xyex]

I refuse to believe the Daizenshuu in its saying that Goku had only a power of ten at the beginning. Perhaps that's going against "canon", but that concept has just always bugged me. If the farmer was around three (please correct me if I'm wrong), there's no way that Goku was only a 10.

..I think he was actually five

It really doesn't make any sense, I'm assuming the farmer didn't have any martial arts training an he was half as powerful as Goku who was trained by a martial arts master? Not to mention Goku could get shot by bullets and live.

Well, we know how very little difference is need to outlcass someone else in power. That doesn't change even at really low scales. 10 may be only 5 points over 5 but that's a huge frikken difference at such a low end of the scale. Even assuming a difference of 1.3 being needed to totally walk all over the competition that puts him 3 class tiers higher than the average person.

That's not just '3 times stronger', that's him kicking the ass out of the person who can kick the ass out of the person who can kick the ass out of the farmer. All the while not even feeling the punches from the stongest person. It's equivical of old King Piccolo smacking around Roshi.

If you go lower, like a 1.2 difference, that would put Goku 4 class tiers over the farmer.

I'd say that Hercule would, on a physical stand point, be a 6. Not strong enough to uttely trounce everyone else without effort, but strong enough to be more than a match for non ki users. Yamcha, when he showed up, was likely 7.5 or so. More than enough to blast through Joe Average and giving him more of an advantage over the likes of Hercule than Hercule has over Joe Average.

The numbers do, actually, work out if you put thought into them. (More than Toriyama ever put into them, but hey, he put less thought into most of the series than we do, so that's not really a factor. ) And thanks to the Turtle's reading we do know that scouters can do decimals. My guess is they round up after you hit, like, 20 or something, and stop with the decimals. Just as they stop with the ones somewhere in the thousands and stop with the thousands somewhere in the millions and so on.

[Herms]

And thanks to the Turtle's reading we do know that scouters can do decimals. My guess is they round up after you hit, like, 20 or something, and stop with the decimals. Just as they stop with the ones somewhere in the thousands and stop with the thousands somewhere in the millions and so on.

Well, Sea Turtle getting his battle power measured was only in the anime. But anyway, do we know for sure that that it isn't the person reading the scouter measurements who rounds off, rather than the scouter itself? Everyone is always saying "over x" or "about y", so it sounds like they're the ones doing the rounding. Or maybe everyone is nice enough to stop training when they hit a nice round number: "89,998...89,999...90,000! Well, enough of that, I'll just freshen up before I reach Namek!"

[Xyex]

Or maybe everyone is nice enough to stop training when they hit a nice round number: "89,998...89,999...90,000! Well, enough of that, I'll just freshen up before I reach Namek!"

But anyway, do we know for sure that that it isn't the person reading the scouter measurements who rounds off, rather than the scouter itself? Everyone is always saying "over x" or "about y", so it sounds like they're the ones doing the rounding.

True. I suppose "90,000!" would be easier and faster for the read than "90,287!" so it is likely they are rounding it themselves. But there's also points where they don't mention 'around' or 'about' or 'over' I think. Eh, maybe some of them are just lazy and have theirs set to auto-round?

[Wojak]

True. I suppose "90,000!" would be easier and faster for the read than "90,287!" so it is likely they are rounding it themselves. But there's also points where they don't mention 'around' or 'about' or 'over' I think. Eh, maybe some of them are just lazy and have theirs set to auto-round?

Well, Bulma does mention the exact 137 in powerlevel. And Radditz measured kinda exact too. I think they did that until they realized that the Earthlings could manipulate their ki.
Nappa and Vegeta knew that, and they stopped using the Scouters after their first read.
I guess that the ones saying "about" are rounding off, and the ones saying "over" are estimating that it's not the maximum power of the opponent.
Plus, it would seem odd that if someone has the powerlevel of 12,000, they would say "over 10,000". Or if someone has the powerlevel of 12,100, they would say "over 12,000"? That would be misreading, as an extra 100 wouldn't make that big of a difference.
But maybe I am over-analyzing.

[Saiyajin no Tatsujin]

Who's stronger: Roshi or Mr. Satan? I might be forgetting someting but the ability to shoot ki blasts =/= overall power.

Not to be a dick or anything, but that is a real stupid question for a fan of the series.

Muten Roshi is on a totally different level than Mr. Satan when it comes to the martial arts.

[laserkid]

While I agree with your assessment there, it isn't that obvious for all fans, especially those that haven't seen Dragon Ball, as DBZ pretty much relegates Master Roshi into the worthless category right off the bat.

Lets do some comparisons to make the point though.

Master Roshi and Mr. Satan both are world reknowned in their heyday (As evidenced by the shock of the Tenka-ichi Budokai announcer during the 21st Tenaka-ichi Budokai, when hearing Kuririn and Goku were trained by him).

In terms of Ki, it shouldn't even be a question. Master Roshi uses the Kamehameha at a very large size to put out the fire on Ox Kings mountain very early on in the series. Neither of the two know how to fly, but Master Roshi at least knows what Ki is, and how to use it to some extent.

In terms of physical prowess, as mentioned earlier, Mr. Satan had trouble with breaking tiles. Much earlier, Master Roshi had no trouble moving rather large bolders to keep his students from missing the point of his training. Certainly, Goku was able to do so faster, but Goku isn't human.

Master Roshi also was able to run at incredibly fast speeds (without using Ki), to both Kuririn and Goku's amazement. Mr. Satan cannot even boast that.

Ultimately, Mr. Satan is stronger then your average joe, but is certainly behind the stronger set of man in DBZ (Roshi, Kuririn, Tenshinhan, Yamcha, and Chiaotzu, ect).

Now you want a REAL quandry, how does Yajirobe and Mr. Satan compare? Both have their moments, neither use Ki, and both are pretty much disregarded power wise.

[Kaboom]

Mr. Satan broke a few tiles. Roshi blew up the moon.

[omegacwa]

If you discount Ki users. Mr. Satan is technically "The Strongest Man Under the Heavens". He did win the Tenkaichi Budokai, so he is probably about as strong as any human can get without learning anything about Ki. Where that places him number wise in the whole "power level" system, I am really not sure. But to say that his power level is only .5 more than Farmer with Shotgun is ridiculous. That would be like saying Arnold Schwarzenegger is only mildly stronger than Danny Devito.

[Raki]

Mr. Satan broke a few tiles. Roshi blew up the moon.

Indeed. This would be clear if more "DBZ" fans watch Dragonball.