How strong are Goten and Trunks ?

[Li'l Lemmy]

No. They weren't. 18 was just surprised they were able to create an attack of that level, nothing more. She wasn't concerned about being injured at all, it was pure shock. And likely some concern for the spectators as her daugher was in the crowd, don't forget.

I don't agree, at least not in whole.

"Y-you've got to be kidding! That energy blast had staggering speed and destructive power! These kids, they must have unheard-of power! This is bad. I have to finish this right now!"

She was concerned for her daughter and the other spectators, sure, but based on her reaction I tend to think that she's not only shocked but amazed. Not so much where she was concerned for her own physical well-being, but enough to insinuate that she should possibly become so if the kids start going all out.

Remember, #18 can't sense ki.

There's nothing in her reaction that suggests she's capable. However, the fact that she said the speed of the blast is "staggering" suggests that she sees ahead to what the kids could be like if pushed into fighting hard, and I think what she sees is precisely where "unheard-of" comes from.


~Da Lemmy

[caejones]

With regards to Ta(r)ble, ... I still push the "Tarble was castrated - no kids - young appearance", hence sorta kinda helping deal with some plotholes...

Wasn't it implied that Piccolo was stronger than Goten and Trunks? Although, we didn't get a good look at how much Piccolo advanced in the RoSaT. We only know that Goku agreed he was no match for Cell. Bleargh...
Egh, early Androids levels seem like their best.

[Rocketman]

Wasn't it implied that Piccolo was stronger than Goten and Trunks?.

Heavily. Buu takes on the appearance of the strongest person he's absorbed. After Gotenks breaks up, he changes to Piccolo's outfit. So, Piccolo is stronger than Goten or Trunks.

[Bussani]

Heavily. Buu takes on the appearance of the strongest person he's absorbed. After Gotenks breaks up, he changes to Piccolo's outfit. So, Piccolo is stronger than Goten or Trunks.

That's a very good point right there.

I still say they're around the strength of all the other SSJs between Freeza and the Androids/Cell. Obviously Piccolo went well past that point during the Cell saga.

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

That's true, Rocketman. The only problem with that, is that it was weighted Piccolo and the two kids in their base forms. That just means Piccolo is stronger then the kids in base. But, by the way they hit him with their SSJ aura on Kami's lookout, I'd say the kids in SSJ were above Piccolo.

[Rocketman]

That's true, Rocketman. The only problem with that, is that it was weighted Piccolo and the two kids in their base forms. That just means Piccolo is stronger then the kids in base. But, by the way they hit him with their SSJ aura on Kami's lookout, I'd say the kids in SSJ were above Piccolo.

Buu uses the full power of whoever he absorbs.

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

That's not stated, though; not that I can remember, anyway. Besides, we see the kids in base form when Goku and Vegeta are within Buu, so he wasn't using any of their SSJ powers, just their base powers.

[Kaboom]

Also, I really doubt the kids were stronger than Piccolo at their best. Piccolo is probably at or around the level of Semi-Perfect Cell by that point. Genetically-haxxorzd Super Saiyan or not, that amount of power takes a great amount of longtime dedicated training and hard work to gain, that the kids just plain never did.

[Rocketman]

That's not stated, though; not that I can remember, anyway. Besides, we see the kids in base form when Goku and Vegeta are within Buu, so he wasn't using any of their SSJ powers, just their base powers.

He uses Gotenks' SSJ3 power for thirty minutes. SSJ3 makes Gotenks break up in five minutes.

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

But based on that fact alone, shouldn't the kids be much weaker then Freeza? We know SSJ Future Trunks as a kid, was weaker then base Gohan, or equal with him at the most, and he would be pummeled by a 50% Freeza or less; yet, Trunks and Goten are above #18, and powerful enough to hit Piccolo with their SSJ aura while Goku just stands there.

I think that has to mean they're up there in power, even if it seems wrong.

He uses Gotenks' SSJ3 power for thirty minutes. SSJ3 makes Gotenks break up in five minutes.

I thought Buu said 10 minutes? Even that seems odd, though.

[Kaboom]

Just because they're Super Saiyans doesn't set them at any one level of power. It's fully possible that SSj Goten and Trunks when we first meet them would lose to Freeza. The kids were born with the capability for Super Saiyan, but apparently not the same "power level" requirements.

[Bussani]

Actually, who says they're weaker than Freeza? I'd say, like Future Trunks, they'd be stronger than him, but as we know that wasn't strong enough to take on the Androids and Cell at that point. It took a lot of hard work and playing around with the SSJ form to perfect it to go beyond that point, which Goten and Trunks never did.

As Piccolo fused with Kami was strong enough to fight Cell at first, as well as #17 (and further training after that) I'd say Piccolo would be stronger than those two.

[goodguy777]

I read that scene as #18 being surprised that "Mighty Mask" unleashed a big ol' ki blast.

Remember, #18 can't sense ki.

No. They weren't. 18 was just surprised they were able to create an attack of that level, nothing more. She wasn't concerned about being injured at all, it was pure shock. And likely some concern for the spectators as her daugher was in the crowd, don't forget.

Android Arc Scenes:

#18 took Super Saiyan Mirai Trunks' ki blast, she's not even thinking of dodging it.

Tournament Scenes:

#18 was not concerned for the spectators or his daughter because he knew that Mighty Mask is Chibi-Trunks and Goten. And #18 could tell the difference between SSJ F.Trunks attack and SSJ Chibi-Trunks' attack. Super Saiyan Trunks' ki blast was faster and stronger just like she said.

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

That's a good point. Android #18 took Vegeta's Big Bang Attack like it wasn't anything, then got up and called him a weakling; she doesn't even think twice about not dodging SSJ Kid Trunks energy beam, which wasn't even at full-power.

She ended the battle because they would've crushed her. SSJ Goten also forced Gohan to fly in the air during training, and this is before he could even fly. That says a whole lot, not training for seven years could be a reason, but he was shown strugging with just defending Goten's punches.

[Rocketman]

That's a good point. Android #18 took Vegeta's Big Bang Attack like it wasn't anything, then got up and called him a weakling; she doesn't even think twice about not dodging SSJ Kid Trunks energy beam, which wasn't even at full-power.

It doesn't look like a Big Bang Attack to me. It's part beam, not a full sphere.

And it didn't nuke the Z fighters standing right next to it.

And, aside from that, she didn't have time to dodge Vegeta's blast.

She ended the battle because they would've crushed her. SSJ Goten also forced Gohan to fly in the air during training, and this is before he could even fly. That says a whole lot, not training for seven years could be a reason, but he was shown strugging with just defending Goten's punches.

The main thing I see is that they are stronger than everybody thinks. Gohan's thinking "ok, it's my little brother, I need to go eas-OHSHITOHSHITOSHIT"

[Horgus]

There's no way the kids would be anywhere near as strong as Piccolo, even post ROSAT-training.

Why?

Because they spend the equivalent of like a month in there, their real world time in there literally amounted to about 30 minutes AT MOST.

Just to do a rough calculation to show what I mean, they spent 1/48th of a year in there, or a little over a week of real world training. Two weeks MAX if you account for the change in ROSAT environmental training conditions.

Oh god I'm terrible at math. They do over a WEEK, not a MONTH like I had calculated before.

So one week, two weeks max.

[Kid Trunks]

If Trunks and Goten really are weaker than Freeza, then that would put their base powers at at 2 million-ish right? With powerlevels like that, I dont see how a fusion would result in a power comparable to Majin Vegeta (which is the power base Gotenks is generally believed to have).

[Rocketman]

If Trunks and Goten really are weaker than Freeza, then that would put their base powers at at 2 million-ish right? With powerlevels like that, I dont see how a fusion would result in a power comparable to Majin Vegeta (which is what the power base Gotenks is generally believed to have.

That's how stupidly powerful Fusion is.

Base Goku and Base Vegeta add up to "Super Gohan Buu is my bitch", after all.

[Kid Trunks]

If Trunks and Goten really are weaker than Freeza, then that would put their base powers at at 2 million-ish right? With powerlevels like that, I dont see how a fusion would result in a power comparable to Majin Vegeta (which is what the power base Gotenks is generally believed to have.

That's how stupidly powerful Fusion is.

Base Goku and Base Vegeta add up to "Super Gohan Buu is my bitch", after all.

Except that that's filler.

And also, thats Potara.

[Rocketman]

Except that that's filler.

I was referring to Super Vegetto. If his SSJ form is so far beyond SGhB to be untouchable, his base form must be monstrous as well.

And also, thats Potara.

And characters that don't suck. But still, Fusion does have that kind of power.