Avo and Cado equals which form of Freeza?

[Spazicon]

When did Table visit the Nameks,because if it was after the Cell/Android/Buu saga Dende would't be there since he was brought back to Earth in the Android saga and the other Nameks wouldn't know about Freeza's other transformations

I thought that Avo and Cado both had the same power level as Freeza.

They do but wich form is the question.

Individually, I'm sure.

[Saiyan-Professor]

When did Table visit the Nameks,because if it was after the Cell/Android/Buu saga Dende would't be there since he was brought back to Earth in the Android saga and the other Nameks wouldn't know about Freeza's other transformations...

As I mentioned in the post above yours, Dende saw the first 3 forms and Freeza’s 100% 4th form. He could have easily related what he saw to the others. I will cite the section that I mentioned.

In addition, it was on either this thread or another someone said that none of the Namekians saw any of Freeza’s other forms but that is not true. Dende saw the third and 100%. He saw the third form before Freeza killed him after transforming into the fourth. Then he saw 100% Freeza when Freeza attempted to steal the wish from Porunga. Most likely Dende related to the other Namekians what occurred when they were revived so they could have easily mentioned the past events to Tarble when he visited Namek looking for Vegeta.

[Darkprince410]

Not to mention that most all the Nameksei-jin were in earshot when Gohan was relating that Gokuu was a Super Saiya-jin and fighting evenly with Frieza, and then be able to tell that Vegeta, whose battle power would be in the millions at the time (which they'd be able to sense), wasn't one, given his shock at the news.

I know it's a bit of a stretch, but considering that the Nameksei-jin knew of Gokuu through Dende's conversations with them as well as them hearing about his fight with Frieza while they were on Earth, it's not all that unlikely that they would know, and thus be able to tell Tarble, about Frieza's full strength.

[Saiyan-Professor]

Does anyone have an idea how Tarble and everyone else in the universe found out that Freeza was defeated? The Namekians do not engage in space travel any longer, they mostly keep to themselves. Now the filler segments demonstrate that Freeza had soldiers scattered all over stationed on his planets (the Daizenshuu said that Freeza owned 100 of them) so they would have known and most likely told others.

[Yamcha_krillin]

When did Table visit the Nameks,because if it was after the Cell/Android/Buu saga Dende would't be there since he was brought back to Earth in the Android saga and the other Nameks wouldn't know about Freeza's other transformations...

As I mentioned in the post above yours, Dende saw the first 3 forms and Freeza’s 100% 4th form. He could have easily related what he saw to the others. I will cite the section that I mentioned.

In addition, it was on either this thread or another someone said that none of the Namekians saw any of Freeza’s other forms but that is not true. Dende saw the third and 100%. He saw the third form before Freeza killed him after transforming into the fourth. Then he saw 100% Freeza when Freeza attempted to steal the wish from Porunga. Most likely Dende related to the other Namekians what occurred when they were revived so they could have easily mentioned the past events to Tarble when he visited Namek looking for Vegeta.

Oh they definitely could but we don't know if they did.Even if they did told him about Frieza's other forms how would Table know how strong those other forms are,he can't sense Ki?

Table before he met the Nameks already fought Avo and Cado and he knows that he is no match for them and he knows how strong they are even before meeting the nameks.So even if they did told him about Frieza other forms he wouldn't know how strong those other forms are.

[Saiyan-Professor]

Oh they definitely could but we don't know if they did.Even if they did told him about Freeza's other forms how would Table know how strong those other forms are,he can't sense Ki?

Table before he met the Nameks already fought Avo and Cado and he knows that he is no match for them and he knows how strong they are even before meeting the nameks.So even if they did told him about Freeza other forms he wouldn't know how strong those other forms are.

As I said previously, the Saiyans (pre-Prince Vegeta) may have had an idea of what Freeza’s previous forms battle strength was. So if they in fact did know how strong or at least had an idea of how strong the the first two forms were Tarble could have easily guessed that Abo and Cado was somewhere around Freeza’s max.

This could have been done by taking Abo and Cado's Scouter readings and seeing if they exceeded the max reading of Freeza’s second form. If Dende mentioned the other two forms to his fellow Namekians and they in turn related it to Tarble he could have figured that Abo and Cado was around one of the other two forms.

Another piece of evidence to strengthen my argument is found in a comment made by Herms in another thread.

...The interesting thing is that Tarble says that they now intend to take Freeza's place, which is completely left out of the subs...

If they intended to take Freeza’s place then Abo and Cado had to be somewhere around his power level in order to defeat any other challengers to the throne. They would have to have the fear if not the respect from the other members of the “Remnant”.

Side Note:

The Remnant is what I call the organization that exists now, created from Freeza’s old Empire. It is taken from Vegeta’s line in the special where he calls Abo and Cado “remnants”. I am going to integrate this idea into my story.

[Yamcha_krillin]

Oh they definitely could but we don't know if they did.Even if they did told him about Freeza's other forms how would Table know how strong those other forms are,he can't sense Ki?

Table before he met the Nameks already fought Avo and Cado and he knows that he is no match for them and he knows how strong they are even before meeting the nameks.So even if they did told him about Freeza other forms he wouldn't know how strong those other forms are.

As I said previously, the Saiyans (pre-Prince Vegeta) may have had an idea of what Freeza’s previous forms battle strength was. So if they in fact did know how strong or at least had an idea of how strong the the first two forms were Tarble could have easily guessed that Abo and Cado was somewhere around Freeza’s max.

This could have been done by taking Abo and Cado's Scouter readings and seeing if they exceeded the max reading of Freeza’s second form. If Dende mentioned the other two forms to his fellow Namekians and they in turn related it to Tarble he could have figured that Abo and Cado was around one of the other two forms.

As far as i remember Table said that Avo and Cado are as strong as Frieza not stronger then him.

[Saiyan-Professor]

...As far as i remember Table said that Avo and Cado are as strong as Freeza not stronger then him.

I never said that Abo and Cado surpassed Freeza’s overall combat strength, what I said was:

This could have been done by taking Abo and Cado's Scouter readings and seeing if they exceeded the max reading of Freeza’s second form. If Dende mentioned the other two forms to his fellow Namekians and they in turn related it to Tarble he could have figured that Abo and Cado was around one of the other two forms.

[temujin]

It's probably Freeza's final form, really. Even though in-universe his 1st form probably is much more known than the others, if it weren't meant to be his real power, it'd have been directly mentioned somewhere in the special.

I agree.

Given how completely uniformed Supreme Kai was about....well, anything, I like to think he thought Freeza's first form was his only one.

However, daizenshuu 7 states that Kaioshin is stronger than piccolo.

[Dayspring]

I'm guessing final form. Freeza being near-dead while being cyborg-ified (new word!) would most likely be big news among the empire.

Using that in-universe explanation simply wouldn't work, considering that Tarble said he heard Vegeta "returned to earth after defeating Freeza". It seems to me that the cyborg part didn't even factor into galactic public memory.

That just explains how he knew Vegeta was on Earth.

[Saiyan-Professor]

...However, daizenshuu 7 states that Kaioshin is stronger than piccolo.

That is not saying a lot about Piccolo. During the Buu Saga, everyone acted as if Kaiôshin was a total weakling.

[Forgotten Hero]

When did Table visit the Nameks,because if it was after the Cell/Android/Buu saga Dende would't be there since he was brought back to Earth in the Android saga and the other Nameks wouldn't know about Freeza's other transformations

I thought that Avo and Cado both had the same power level as Freeza.

They do but wich form is the question.

Individually, I'm sure.

That's what I meant the first time, thanks!

[dario03]

Well how powerful are the boys?

I've never really ever been able to figure it out.
Trunks struggled in 150x gravity in base form which would make me think he was about as powerful as Goku after 100x gravity training so about 90,000.
But him and Goten while wearing a clumsy costume fought 18 in base form (but was she going all out?).
Plus can you go super saiyan with only a base of 90,000?
Also if they were that weak fusion would have to be really really really powerful.

I always assumed they were stronger than a base of 90,000 but a base stronger than Freeza 100% seems pretty high.

So basically what I'm saying is I have no idea what form they were equal to but I don't think it was 100%.

Plus how would Tarble now exact strength of any form of Freeza (besides first). People that sense power never talk in exacts its always relative. So I only seem them saying he was really really strong. Assuming they said anything at all.

[Dayspring]

Plus can you go super saiyan with only a base of 90,000?

Yes. Super Saiyan is merely triggered by extreme rage after the Saiyan has reached a level of strength that is greater than their potential strength.

Though its canonocity (is that a word) is arguable, Onio from Neko Majin Z has an SSJ strength only about as strong as Saiyan-saga Vegeta. This is easily explainable: he had an exceptionally low potential.

[temujin]

...However, daizenshuu 7 states that Kaioshin is stronger than piccolo.

That is not saying a lot about Piccolo. During the Buu Saga, everyone acted as if Kaiôshin was a total weakling.

Everyone who?Anyway, piccolo did what during the buu saga.Toriyama didn't even choose him to fight.
Compared with sayajins everyone was a total weakling and i didn't see vegeta doing an exception to piccolo.

[Saiyan-Professor]

...However, daizenshuu 7 states that Kaioshin is stronger than piccolo.

That is not saying a lot about Piccolo. During the Buu Saga, everyone acted as if Kaiôshin was a total weakling.

Everyone who?Anyway, piccolo did what during the buu saga.Toriyama didn't even choose him to fight.
Compared with sayajins everyone was a total weakling and i didn't see vegeta doing an exception to piccolo.

Because the Buu Saga was really, the “Idiot Duo” hour and Vegeta put up a descent fight against Fat Buu. If Buu did not have the ability to regenerate, he would have been destroyed earlier on in the Saga.

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

The same could be said about Cell as well. If Cell couldn't regenerate, he would've eventually lost to Android #16 or one of the post rosat SSJ.

Piccolo is implied to be weaker then the Base Saiyans in the Buu saga. However, that's for another topic.

[Super Ghost Kamikaze]

I'm guessing final form. Freeza being near-dead while being cyborg-ified (new word!) would most likely be big news among the empire.

Using that in-universe explanation simply wouldn't work, considering that Tarble said he heard Vegeta "returned to earth after defeating Freeza". It seems to me that the cyborg part didn't even factor into galactic public memory.

That just explains how he knew Vegeta was on Earth.

But if the cyborg bit was known, then Vegeta wouldn't go to earth AFTER beating Freeza. He'd go to earth, THEN beat Freeza.

Also, I seriously doubt Toriyama sat there with a calculator as he wrote the manga, or referenced who could do what at which power levels. The way I've always seen it, these numbers were meant to make a dramatic point in the moment that they are mentioned..rather than to be a concrete source of information across the whole series.

[Dayspring]

Using that in-universe explanation simply wouldn't work, considering that Tarble said he heard Vegeta "returned to earth after defeating Freeza". It seems to me that the cyborg part didn't even factor into galactic public memory.

That just explains how he knew Vegeta was on Earth.

But if the cyborg bit was known, then Vegeta wouldn't go to earth AFTER beating Freeza. He'd go to earth, THEN beat Freeza.

Also, I seriously doubt Toriyama sat there with a calculator as he wrote the manga, or referenced who could do what at which power levels. The way I've always seen it, these numbers were meant to make a dramatic point in the moment that they are mentioned..rather than to be a concrete source of information across the whole series.

I don't know. I think it's possible Tarble found out like this:

1) News leak: "Some Saiyans nearly killed Freeza. He's in an unseen before transformed state undergoing surgery!"
2) Possible News leak : "Freeza is out to get revenge on whoever wounded him."
3) Years later, Abo and Cado arrive on
4) Tarble tracks down info that says Freeza was first wounded on Namek, assumes it must have been Vegeta (or Nappa or Radditz) who did it.
5) Tarble meets a Namek who tells him Vegeta went to Earth after defeating Freeza.
6) Tarble goes to Earth.

It isn't really essential that Cyborg Freeza be stated as a cyborg. We don't call humans with prosthetics cyborgs, just that they underwent surgery and got said prosthetic.

[Horgus]

They were each probably as strong as Freeza's maximum strength.

This is after the Majin Buu fight, when they trained in the RoSAT.

It wouldn't be inconceivable for the kids to be that strong, and more. Considering Abo and Cado were outmatched even by the kids in their base forms, it all makes sense.