Discussion, generally of an in-universe nature, regarding any aspect of the franchise (including movies, spin-offs, etc.) such as: techniques, character relationships, internal back-history, its universe, and more.
-
Cardle grave
- Banned
- Posts: 390
- Joined: Thu May 16, 2013 12:58 am
- Location: Dragonball Platinum is My home (743 evergreen terrace springfield)
Post
by Cardle grave » Fri Jun 07, 2013 3:43 am
Kid Buu wrote:I don't have the film, but can anyone deliver the quote to when he first turns SSJ3? I know for fact he says that in the dub, but not sure about the sub.
Movie 11 and Movie 12 are both different universe
While in Movie 12 Fat buu and Super buu existed. Goten and trunks Done fusion and went inside the HBTC and learn the Super ghost attack
While in Movie 11, Goku was in other world rather then watching his son train with the Z sword and the kids didn't know fusion. So its either 3 chooses
- Gohan was hax and defeated Buu
- Majin vegeta Kills Buu
- SSj3 goku Kills Buu
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:First of all, if we can have Dende as Kami in Movie 6 (which was released long before Dende became Kami in the manga), then we can have Super Saiyan 2 Goku in Movie 10.
Secondly, Gohan couldn't damage Broli at all. All he could do was push him one step further, and break a hold.
Thirdly, Goku's hair where standing up, but not Goten's, which is why I believe that Goku was a Super Saiyan 2. As for Gohan, his hair also became like his Super Saiyan 2 hair. Also a Super Saiyan 2.
Finally, it makes me wonder why would Super Saiyan 3 Goku would need Paikuhan's help against Broli in Movie 11... Could it be that Broli is around Super Saiyan 3 Goku's level?
Well King kai said for pikkon to go with him, So it could be that Goku would need help because there no reason for him to go if Goku was more then enough for broly to handle
Piccolo was said to be the super nameke
-
miguelnuva1
- I Live Here
- Posts: 2909
- Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2012 9:23 pm
Post
by miguelnuva1 » Fri Jun 07, 2013 3:48 am
Piccolo was called a Super Namek when he fused with Nail as well.
-
Cardle grave
- Banned
- Posts: 390
- Joined: Thu May 16, 2013 12:58 am
- Location: Dragonball Platinum is My home (743 evergreen terrace springfield)
Post
by Cardle grave » Fri Jun 07, 2013 4:14 am
If you watch movie 6, Krillin makes a big deal that Piccolo is now the Super nameke. Pretty much saying that his new to the whole thing
-
MDSTSSJ
- Regular
- Posts: 655
- Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2013 11:19 am
Post
by MDSTSSJ » Fri Jun 07, 2013 10:13 am
Kid Buu wrote:I don't have the film, but can anyone deliver the quote to when he first turns SSJ3? I know for fact he says that in the dub, but not sure about the sub.
Movie 12 Kakarotto tells Janemba that he is the second to make him reach that limit ( SSJ3 ) and the first was Majin Boo.
-
DBZGTKOSDH
- Namekian Warrior
- Posts: 12401
- Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2011 7:45 pm
- Location: Greece
Post
by DBZGTKOSDH » Fri Jun 07, 2013 10:24 am
Cardle grave wrote:Movie 11 and Movie 12 are both different universe
Nope, we see Bio-Warriors (from Movie 11) in Movie 12. Basically, we see villains from all the DBZ Movies (except for Movies 6 & 7), so it's safe to assume that all the movies take place in the same universe.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
-
VegettoEX
- Kanzenshuu Co-Owner & Administrator
- Posts: 17801
- Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2004 3:10 pm
- Location: New Jersey
-
Contact:
Post
by VegettoEX » Fri Jun 07, 2013 10:30 am
I think it's safe to say that some VERSIONS of some of the movies take place in a/the same universe, but it's not entirely safe to say they all happen as-is.
In some universe somewhere, perhaps some version of events that contained Bojack happened in a universe where DBZ Movie 12 takes place. Or maybe it didn't at all! Maybe all of the events leading up to Bojack's being sealed away took place, but then it's some alternate universe where Kaio never died and Bojack was never unleashed in the same way, and he had been killed in some other way which is why he shows up as a "dead" villain.
No-one can say for sure.
:: [| Mike "VegettoEX" LaBrie |] ::
:: [|
Kanzenshuu - Co-Founder/Administrator, Podcast Host, News Manager
(note: our "job" titles are arbitrary and meaningless) |] ::
:: [| Website: January 1998 |] :: [| Podcast: November 2005 |] :: [| Fusion: April 2012 |] :: [| Wiki: 20XX |] ::
-
MDSTSSJ
- Regular
- Posts: 655
- Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2013 11:19 am
Post
by MDSTSSJ » Fri Jun 07, 2013 10:37 am
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:
Finally, it makes me wonder why would Super Saiyan 3 Goku would need Paikuhan's help against Broli in Movie 11... Could it be that Broli is around Super Saiyan 3 Goku's level?
Bubbles tells Kakarotto that Kaio Sama want him to go with Paikuhan to stop Broly because he is causing disaster on Earth.
That comment is like Movie 12 when Dai Kaio tells Goku and Paikuhan to go to Enma Daioh World to see what happens and all we know what happen next ( Janemba is stronger than Broly, Super Janemba is way way stronger than Broly ).
Plan to Eradicate the Super Saiyans Goku says that maybe the Hatchiyack is stronger than Broly but, Gohan is not even a SSJ2.
Broly is not even close to a SSJ3 level. Is far far behind.
-
DBZGTKOSDH
- Namekian Warrior
- Posts: 12401
- Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2011 7:45 pm
- Location: Greece
Post
by DBZGTKOSDH » Fri Jun 07, 2013 10:41 am
VegettoEX wrote:I think it's safe to say that some VERSIONS of some of the movies take place in a/the same universe, but it's not entirely safe to say they all happen as-is.
In some universe somewhere, perhaps some version of events that contained Bojack happened in a universe where DBZ Movie 12 takes place. Or maybe it didn't at all! Maybe all of the events leading up to Bojack's being sealed away took place, but then it's some alternate universe where Kaio never died and Bojack was never unleashed in the same way, and he had been killed in some other way which is why he shows up as a "dead" villain.
No-one can say for sure.
Why make up many different versions when we have one version for each movie?
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
-
VegettoEX
- Kanzenshuu Co-Owner & Administrator
- Posts: 17801
- Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2004 3:10 pm
- Location: New Jersey
-
Contact:
Post
by VegettoEX » Fri Jun 07, 2013 10:45 am
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:Why make up many different versions when we have one version for each movie?
I think what you're asking is:
"Why should we think/assume/presume/consider multiple universes for movies when we could just assume they all take place in the exact same universe?"
Because there are too many internal inconsistencies for each and every single other movie and special to work perfectly well with each other. Some of the movies presume that things in the manga / TV series went as-is instead of presuming that the rest of the movies were the ones that came before them. That means they can't exist in the same universe together. So then you're stuck wondering, "OK, so how many universes within the span of the 13 DBZ movies are there?" and the rabbit hole goes deeper and deeper.
Sure, if you want to theorize on it and say, "Yes! DBZ Movies 2-4, for the purposes of my own discussion, take place one after another in the same universe!"... well, that's fine! But it's also possible it doesn't happen that way in someone else's theory.
EDIT: hleV put it nice and succinct right below me, here
.
:: [| Mike "VegettoEX" LaBrie |] ::
:: [|
Kanzenshuu - Co-Founder/Administrator, Podcast Host, News Manager
(note: our "job" titles are arbitrary and meaningless) |] ::
:: [| Website: January 1998 |] :: [| Podcast: November 2005 |] :: [| Fusion: April 2012 |] :: [| Wiki: 20XX |] ::
-
hleV
- Banned
- Posts: 3325
- Joined: Tue Feb 02, 2010 3:15 pm
- Location: Lithuania
Post
by hleV » Fri Jun 07, 2013 10:45 am
If the movies can be partially based on the events of the original series, they can be partially based on the events of other movies as well.
-
DBZGTKOSDH
- Namekian Warrior
- Posts: 12401
- Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2011 7:45 pm
- Location: Greece
Post
by DBZGTKOSDH » Fri Jun 07, 2013 11:05 am
Anyway...
About what I said SS3 Goku needing Paikuhan's help for Broli, I only relied at my memory & didn't check the scenes. I remembered Goku saying that he will need Paikuhan, while this wasn't the case.
And since in Movie 12 Goku says that Janenba is the second guy after Majin Boo to push him go Super Saiyan 3, there is no way for Broli to be anywhere near SS3 Goku.
Still, I have M10 Broli above all the Super Saiyans 2.
I didn't see Broli having any trouble with Gohan, other than Gohan breaking his hold, and not only Gohan realized very soon that he had no chance against Broli, he didn't even consider getting angry. His only hope was the lava. Then, I believe that Goku & Gohan turned Super Saiyan 2 in the final "NOW!", when Trunks distracted Broli with his ki blast, and we see that not only Broli's barrier didn't break instantly after it took the combined Kamehameha of SS2 Goku, SS2 Gohan, and SS Goten, but the Kamehameha alone couldn't do the job to finish Broli, since he had to go to the Sun to die.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
-
TheGmGoken
- Namekian Warrior
- Posts: 10592
- Joined: Sun Apr 07, 2013 5:19 pm
- Location: Capsule Corps
Post
by TheGmGoken » Fri Jun 07, 2013 11:08 am
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:Anyway...
About what I said SS3 Goku needing Paikuhan's help for Broli, I only relied at my memory & didn't check the scenes. I remembered Goku saying that he will need Paikuhan, while this wasn't the case.
And since in Movie 12 Goku says that Janenba is the second guy after Majin Boo to push him go Super Saiyan 3, there is no way for Broli to be anywhere near SS3 Goku.
Still, I have M10 Broli above all the Super Saiyans 2.
I didn't see Broli having any trouble with Gohan, other than Gohan breaking his hold, and not only Gohan realized very soon that he had no chance against Broli, he didn't even consider getting angry. His only hope was the lava. Then, I believe that Goku & Gohan turned Super Saiyan 2 in the final "NOW!", when Trunks distracted Broli with his ki blast, and we see that not only Broli's barrier didn't break instantly after it took the combined Kamehameha of SS2 Goku, SS2 Gohan, and SS Goten, but the Kamehameha alone couldn't do the job to finish Broli, since he had to go to the Sun to die.
Maybe Broly is like Nappa. Broly might be weaker then SSJ2 Goku(Not SSJ2 Teen/Adult Gohan sadly). But have high defense and durability. Similar to Nappa being weaker then Goku but took his hits.
-
DBZGTKOSDH
- Namekian Warrior
- Posts: 12401
- Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2011 7:45 pm
- Location: Greece
Post
by DBZGTKOSDH » Fri Jun 07, 2013 11:18 am
Nappa survived Goku's hits because Goku wanted Nappa to survive his hits.
I don't understand why everyone
wants Broli to be weak. I'm not a Broli fan, honestly, but he was made to be the strongest Saiyan (at the point). I hate it when people underestimate Broli & overestimate Vegetto. All for no reason.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
-
Draken
- Banned
- Posts: 1608
- Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2013 1:01 am
Post
by Draken » Fri Jun 07, 2013 11:20 am
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:Nappa survived Goku's hits because Goku wanted Nappa to survive his hits.
I don't understand why everyone
wants Broli to be weak. I'm not a Broli fan, honestly, but he was made to be the strongest Saiyan (at the point). I hate it when people underestimate Broli & overestimate Vegetto. All for no reason.
Because Vegetto is unlimited. He is the hope of the omniverse.
-
TheGmGoken
- Namekian Warrior
- Posts: 10592
- Joined: Sun Apr 07, 2013 5:19 pm
- Location: Capsule Corps
Post
by TheGmGoken » Fri Jun 07, 2013 11:26 am
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:Nappa survived Goku's hits because Goku wanted Nappa to survive his hits.
I don't understand why everyone
wants Broli to be weak. I'm not a Broli fan, honestly, but he was made to be the strongest Saiyan (at the point). I hate it when people underestimate Broli & overestimate Vegetto. All for no reason.
I never said Broly was weak. Nor do I want to be. People over power Broly far more then people over power Vegito. Broly was never made to be the strongest saiyan. He was made just to be made lol. Broly seriously isn't as strong as people over hype him as. I have him around Perfect Cell 100%. Broly the second coming I have him slightly above SPC. Also about Nappa vs Goku. Goku even said it would take awhile to beat him. Which means he got high durability.
-
TheMightyOzaru
- Banned
- Posts: 6255
- Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2012 6:50 pm
- Location: Capsule Corp
Post
by TheMightyOzaru » Fri Jun 07, 2013 11:27 am
Yes! I think a lot of Broly's power comes from his durability and strength. I think SSJ2 Gohan was really close to Broly in M10 but Broly's strength and durability allowed him to tool Gohan, for the most part. I don't want Broly to be weak at all DBZGTKOSDH, He just doesn't have the feats to make me think he is all that. He had trouble keeping SSJ2 Gohan down, whom at this point is weak sauce compared to the likes of SSJ2 Vegeta(Pre Majin) and SSJ2 Kid Gohan and SPC would make that Vegeta their bitch as far as I'm concerned. I have the hierarchy like this: SSJ2 Goku = SSJ2 Majin Vegeta > SSJ2 Kid Gohan(Angriest) > Super Perfect Cell > SSJ2 Kid Gohan(Angry) > SSJ2 Vegeta > LSSJ M10 Broly > SSJ2 M10 Gohan. If Broly were to tool SSJ2 Vegeta in this movie I would have him probably equal to if not stronger than SPC but he doesn't give reason to think he is on SPC's level.
Vegeta: "Funny... I seem to recall Kakarot being fed the same information right before he transformed; the distinct look on your faces when he went Super Saiyan didn't exactly inspire confidence. One does not predict or calculate power like ours."
Youtube channel:
http://www.youtube.com/user/ThePrinceOfSaiyajins
My 3DS Friend Code:
2707-1669-7946
-
DBZGTKOSDH
- Namekian Warrior
- Posts: 12401
- Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2011 7:45 pm
- Location: Greece
Post
by DBZGTKOSDH » Fri Jun 07, 2013 11:37 am
Draken wrote:Because Vegetto is unlimited. He is the hope of the omniverse.
Yet, we see guys like Oozaru Baby, Super #17, Super Saiyan 4 Goku, Super Saiyan 4 Vegeta, Super Saiyan 4 Gogeta, Shu Xing Long, Super Yi Xing Long, Super Saiyan God Goku, Beers, Whis, and possibly even more people from other Universes rivaling or surpassing Super Vegetto or even Super Saiyan 3 Vegetto.
TheGmGoken wrote:People over power Broly far more then people over power Vegito.
I'm talking about this forum only.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
-
RandomGuy96
- Kicks it Old-School
- Posts: 8881
- Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2013 3:57 pm
- Location: San Diego, California, USA
Post
by RandomGuy96 » Fri Jun 07, 2013 11:41 am
Pretty much any other SS2 tier fighter would demolish Broly. Goku, Vegeta, Cell, Fat Buu, even Dabura (though not due to power). If not for the guidebook statement that Gohan was a SS2 in this movie, I'd only have him as strong as warm up Cell. He didn't even really dominate Gohan.
The Monkey King wrote:RandomGuy96 wrote:dbgtFO wrote:
Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.
-
TheMightyOzaru
- Banned
- Posts: 6255
- Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2012 6:50 pm
- Location: Capsule Corp
Post
by TheMightyOzaru » Fri Jun 07, 2013 11:42 am
People overestimate Vegetto because some people accept the literal Goku x Vegeta = Vegetto, which is perfectly fine. Vegetto is the end game DBZ character, Whis and Beers aside. Even assuming Vegetto is that strong it's pretty simple to put Whis and Beers above that since they are end game Gods.
Vegeta: "Funny... I seem to recall Kakarot being fed the same information right before he transformed; the distinct look on your faces when he went Super Saiyan didn't exactly inspire confidence. One does not predict or calculate power like ours."
Youtube channel:
http://www.youtube.com/user/ThePrinceOfSaiyajins
My 3DS Friend Code:
2707-1669-7946
-
TheGmGoken
- Namekian Warrior
- Posts: 10592
- Joined: Sun Apr 07, 2013 5:19 pm
- Location: Capsule Corps
Post
by TheGmGoken » Fri Jun 07, 2013 11:44 am
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:Draken wrote:Because Vegetto is unlimited. He is the hope of the omniverse.
Yet, we see guys like Oozaru Baby, Super #17, Super Saiyan 4 Goku, Super Saiyan 4 Vegeta, Super Saiyan 4 Gogeta, Shu Xing Long, Super Yi Xing Long, Super Saiyan God Goku, Beers, Whis, and possibly even more people from other Universes rivaling or surpassing Super Vegetto or even Super Saiyan 3 Vegetto.
TheGmGoken wrote:People over power Broly far more then people over power Vegito.
I'm talking about this forum only.
Quote 1: I think he was jokiung. Plus SSJ 4 Goku and Vegeta < Vegito. SSJ4 Gogeta < SSJ 2 or 3 Vegito. All of the Shenrons < SSJ3 Vegito. MAYBE Xing Long maybe have a chance against SSJ2 Vegito. SSG Goku, Beers, Whis is debatable. But I have them above Vegito. You got to understand Vegito full power haven't been shown. Vegito was toying with Buu so who knows what is his power.
Quote 2: Unfair judgement then. More people over power Broly then they do Vegito.
