The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

[h0kuten]

Stated and performed are two different things. Plus the statement was VERY open ended. It really shouldn't be taken seriously.

As why should it not be? It was apart of the story because they are trying to tell us something. It's a message.

[Zephyr]

Stated and performed are two different things. Plus the statement was VERY open ended. It really shouldn't be taken seriously.

As why should it not be? It was apart of the story because they are trying to tell us something. It's a message.

It wasn't even stated. You twisted a vague "the universe is doomed at this rate" statement into "the universe will be wiped out...in one single attack!". You've had this spelled out to you several times, in several threads.

That's a valid interpretation, sure, but it's not the only one. When you treat one of many possible interpretations as the only valid one, and thus as the only factual one, and then turn around and use that "fact" as a premise in an argument, you're crafting a weak argument that's not even worth wasting any time on. When you have this spelled out to you numerous times, and you seem fluent in the English language, you appear to be either covering your ears and shaking your head, or deliberately crafting weak arguments for the sake of stirring things up.

[h0kuten]

Stated and performed are two different things. Plus the statement was VERY open ended. It really shouldn't be taken seriously.

As why should it not be? It was apart of the story because they are trying to tell us something. It's a message.

It wasn't even stated. You twisted a vague "the universe is doomed at this rate" statement into "the universe will be wiped out...in one single attack!". You've had this spelled out to you several times, in several threads.

That's a valid interpretation, sure, but it's not the only one. When you treat one of many possible interpretations as the only valid one, and thus as the only factual one, and then turn around and use that "fact" as a premise in an argument, you're crafting a weak argument that's not even worth wasting any time on. When you have this spelled out to you numerous times, and you seem fluent in the English language, you appear to be either covering your ears and shaking your head, or deliberately crafting weak arguments for the sake of stirring things up.

It was stated not only a planet or two this time, the entire Universe might disappear! That implies at an instant. They can travel between Universes and he is a destroyer, so it really makes sense.

[Zephyr]

It was stated not only a planet or two this time, the entire Universe might disappear! That implies at an instant.

That can imply an instant, yes. It can also imply in a few minutes. Or a few hours. Or a few days. Or a few years. You're not making an ounce of effort to explain why every single possible alternative interpretation is necessarily ruled out. I really can't emphasize the word "necessary" enough; because if it is not absolutely logically necessary that every single possible alternative interpretation is ruled out, then there is still merit to said alternative interpretations, and thus yours is not the best/only/factual/#1 interpretation worth tossing around.

[h0kuten]

It was stated not only a planet or two this time, the entire Universe might disappear! That implies at an instant.

That can imply an instant, yes. It can also imply in a few minutes. Or a few hours. Or a few days. Or a few years. You're not making an ounce of effort to explain why every single possible alternative interpretation is necessarily ruled out. I really can't emphasize the word "necessary" enough; because if it is not absolutely logically necessary that every single possible alternative interpretation is ruled out, then there is still merit to said alternative interpretations, and thus yours is not the best/only/factual/#1 interpretation worth tossing around.

There are billions of stars in a single Galaxy and one hundred billion Galaxies in the observable Universe. For Beerus to travel to each sun, planet and moon one by one, would take an infinite amount of time -hardly making him a threat.

[Kamiccolo9]

It was stated not only a planet or two this time, the entire Universe might disappear! That implies at an instant.

That can imply an instant, yes. It can also imply in a few minutes. Or a few hours. Or a few days. Or a few years. You're not making an ounce of effort to explain why every single possible alternative interpretation is necessarily ruled out. I really can't emphasize the word "necessary" enough; because if it is not absolutely logically necessary that every single possible alternative interpretation is ruled out, then there is still merit to said alternative interpretations, and thus yours is not the best/only/factual/#1 interpretation worth tossing around.

There are billions of stars in a single Galaxy and one hundred billion Galaxies in the observable Universe. For Beerus to travel to each sun, planet and moon one by one, would take an infinite amount of time -hardly making him a threat.

I don't think you know what "infinite" means.

[h0kuten]

It was a figure of speech.

[Zephyr]

There are billions of stars in a single Galaxy and one hundred billion Galaxies in the observable Universe. For Beerus to travel to each sun, planet and moon one by one, would take an infinite amount of time -hardly making him a threat.

So in your mind, the only two possible interpretations are:

A: Beerus wipes out the entire universe in on blast.

or

B: Beerus destroys each planet one by one.

That's what is known as a False Dichotomy or False Dilemma. It is a logical fallacy. It means that you're painting a scenario in which there are only two possible solutions, when in fact several others could very well exist. He could destroy two planets at a time. He could destroy two suns at a time. He could destroy ten suns at a time.

In other words, that is a bad argument. This is also something that has been spelled out to you in the past.

And no, even if he took centuries to destroy everything in the universe, so long as he was destroying planets at a rate faster than the Kaio/shin were creating them, then logically the universe would eventually disappear, which would still make him a threat.

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

Inspired from withheldforprivacy.

Hypothetical Situation
Hypothetically, say the units read from all of the scouters in the series were in indecipherable, some alien unit + number we didn't know, and Bulma never fixed the scouter to have normal readings. So we couldn't determine power gaps in the series (i,e; not knowing Saiyan arc Vegeta is 2.25x Goku, not knowing 1st form Freeza is 12x Nail, not knowing Raditz is 3-4x Goku, not knowing Goku when arriving on Namek is 1.33x weaker than Ginyu (since we couldn't divide his Kaioken x2 by a number), etc..). Or simply put, there were no scouter readings, and no supplemental guidebook information on battle powers. Who do you think would win these fights?

1. Yajirobe (Saiyan arc) vs. Goku (23rd TB)
2. Krillin (post-Guru) vs. Vegeta (Saiyan arc)
3. Zarbon (Monster) vs. Nail
4. Base Goku (Arrival on Namek; no Kaioken) vs. Captain Ginyu
5. Base Goku ((Arrival on Namek; Kaioken x10) vs. Freeza (1st form)

[h0kuten]

There are billions of stars in a single Galaxy and one hundred billion Galaxies in the observable Universe. For Beerus to travel to each sun, planet and moon one by one, would take an infinite amount of time -hardly making him a threat.

So in your mind, the only two possible interpretations are:

A: Beerus wipes out the entire universe in on blast.

or

B: Beerus destroys each planet one by one.

That's what is known as a False Dichotomy or False Dilemma. It is a logical fallacy. It means that you're painting a scenario in which there are only two possible solutions, when in fact several others could very well exist. He could destroy two planets at a time. He could destroy two suns at a time. He could destroy ten suns at a time.

In other words, that is a bad argument. This is also something that has been spelled out to you in the past.

And no, even if he took centuries to destroy everything in the universe, so long as he was destroying planets at a rate faster than the Kaio/shin were creating them, then logically the universe would eventually disappear, which would still make him a threat.

It doesn't make sense though. The argument ties in line with it occurring instantaneously as opposed to occurring eventually.

[Zephyr]

It doesn't make sense though. The argument ties in line with it occurring instantaneously as opposed to occurring eventually.

Which part doesn't make sense? Why does it not make sense? How does your interpretation make more sense? Make some effort to explain your point.

[Kamiccolo9]

Inspired from withheldforprivacy.

Hypothetical Situation
Hypothetically, say the units read from all of the scouters in the series were in indecipherable, some alien unit we didn't know, so we couldn't determine power gaps (i,e; not knowing Saiyan arc Vegeta is 2.25x Goku, not knowing 1st form Freeza is 12x Nail, not knowing Raditz is 3-4x Goku, not knowing Goku when arriving on Namek is 1.33x weaker than Ginyu (since we couldn't divide his Kaioken x2 by a number), etc..). Or simply put, there were no scouter readings, and no supplemental guidebook information on battle powers. Who do you think would win these fights?

1. Yajirobe (Saiyan arc) vs. Goku (23rd TB)
2. Krillin (post-Guru) vs. Vegeta (Saiyan arc)
3. Zarbon (Monster) vs. Nail
4. Base Goku (Arrival on Namek; no Kaioken) vs. Captain Ginyu
5. Base Goku ((Arrival on Namek; Kaioken x10) vs. Freeza (1st form)

I like this. It's interesting.

Definitely Goku. He's demonstrated waaaaay more power output than Yajirobe, and can kinda sorta fly.
Vegeta. He's demonstrated potentially planet-destroying power, and has shown greater resistance to injury. And he has access to Krillin's trump card as well.
Nail has no feats, so Zarbon.
Impossible to compare the two. We don't know anything about Ginyu's training, or how it compares to Goku. Nor do we know how much Goku has improved, since we don't know his Saiyan Arc power level, nor do we know the difference between Ginyu and Vegeta.
Same as above. Impossible to know.

[h0kuten]

It doesn't make sense though. The argument ties in line with it occurring instantaneously as opposed to occurring eventually.

Which part doesn't make sense? Why does it not make sense? How does your interpretation make more sense? Make some effort to explain your point.

It's stated:

a) The Universe will disappear.

Not

b) The Universe will disappear eventually.

[DBZAOTA482]

Inspired from withheldforprivacy.

Hypothetical Situation
Hypothetically, say the units read from all of the scouters in the series were in indecipherable, some alien unit we didn't know, so we couldn't determine power gaps (i,e; not knowing Saiyan arc Vegeta is 2.25x Goku, not knowing 1st form Freeza is 12x Nail, not knowing Raditz is 3-4x Goku, not knowing Goku when arriving on Namek is 1.33x weaker than Ginyu (since we couldn't divide his Kaioken x2 by a number), etc..). Or simply put, there were no scouter readings, and no supplemental guidebook information on battle powers. Who do you think would win these fights?

1. Yajirobe (Saiyan arc) vs. Goku (23rd TB)
2. Krillin (post-Guru) vs. Vegeta (Saiyan arc)
3. Zarbon (Monster) vs. Nail
4. Base Goku (Arrival on Namek; no Kaioken) vs. Captain Ginyu
5. Base Goku ((Arrival on Namek; Kaioken x10) vs. Freeza (1st form)

-Yajirobe destroys
-Vegeta still wins quite easily. Krillin was still afraid of him on Namek.
-Nail stomps
-Ginyu stomps
-Freeza murderstomps

[Zephyr]

It's stated:

a) The Universe will disappear.

Not

b) The Universe will disappear eventually.

You realize that goes both ways, right?

It's stated:

a) The Universe will disappear.

Not

b) The Universe will disappear in an instant.

We're still going in circles and have made no progress on fleshing your point out. We're still on the "either interpretation works, neither is necessarily the stronger one" square.

[Kid Buu]

Sonic vs. Kid Gohan

[dbzfan7]

Sonic vs. Kid Gohan

Which Kid Gohan? I can see him taking saiyan arc Kid Gohan. I can see him maybe beating early Namek Gohan. I don't think I see him beating Cyborg arc Kid Gohan, and definitely not post Rosat Gohan. Going strictly by the video games. Unless you count the recent shitverse with bandages, then maybe Gohan saiyan arc should be enough.

[h0kuten]

Db Super & Battle of Gods vs Dragonball GT

Goku Base Post (BoG) vs Super Android 17 Post (GT)

Goku Ssj4 (Beyond Limits) vs Goku SSSJG 100% (BoG)

Goku & Vegeta Base (FnF) vs Syn Shenron (GT)

Raging Vegeta Gallic Gun (Db Super) vs Super Baby Vegeta 2

Beerus 10% vs Baby Golden Oozaru

Vegeta Ssj2 (Db Super) vs Goku Ssj3 (BoGT)

Goku Ssj3 (Db Super) vs Bootenks

[Zephyr]

Perfect Nazo vs LSSJ Broly [Movie 8]

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

Impossible to compare the two. We don't know anything about Ginyu's training, or how it compares to Goku. Nor do we know how much Goku has improved, since we don't know his Saiyan Arc power level, nor do we know the difference between Ginyu and Vegeta.

For this situation, personally, I go with Goku beating Ginyu.

Goku did out speed Ginyu, and as someone on another forum pointed out, it's hard to imagine Goku while not even full power could clown two members at once and then lose to a single one, that's just his opinion, but I agree with it. I personally wouldn't assume the Captain had that much of a lead over his lower ranking partners.