"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[ToshioWrites]

The tournament should have just been u6,7 and 11 and MAYBE u3 if anilaza was in the outline . It’s pretty clear Toriyama didn’t write shit for anybody outside of the 3 main universes . Hell he wrote nothing for Krillin and Tien except getting knocked off first from u7. Should have. Been 5 man teams and only 3-4 universes fighting
This is why I say, the tournament should have just been Goku and Vegeta. Ya all would have complained about it being the Goku and Vegeta show but that would have been one and done complaint not 4 for every character.

[CriticalThinker]

From the spoilers I've read so far I'm a bit disappointed in this chapter, I'll wait for the whole chapter before I give my full thoughts but so far I'm not feeling it. Also really hope that Tien vs Frost is more than just that one page that was shown in the spoilers.

[dragonball0900]

I don't mind that much that Krillin and Tien were out. I mean, they are fodder and that's the reality. However, the thing that made me really mad is how Roshi outlasted both of them AGAIN. Why didn't Frost attack Roshi too? Frieza told Frost directly to attack the 3 of them, the weakest ones. I would have really like to see all 3 going out in a similar way. But no. They have to overpower and overuse Roshi like in the anime. They seem to purposely forget how weak Roshi was in comparison to Tien and Krillin, and the big power ups the later two got on King Kai's and Namek respectively, in favor of making him "cool". I don't like that in the slightlest. This chapter, even though I didn't read it yet, has made me dissapointed on Toyotaro's manga so far.

[Dragono]

Fucking hell.

I had no expectations for Krillin and Tenshinhan in Toyotaro's rendition of the Tournament Of Power and I'm still immensely disappointed. Really drives home how Toriyama had nothing planned for those guys. At least the anime gave them something to justify their inclusion in the Tournament Of Power.

I'm so let down by this.

Whenever I read the manga, it makes me sad when i realize just how little toriyama gives them to work with and how little he writes for anyone but the two main saiyans. Its a joke at this point

I'm made this comment before, and I'll say it again:

Someone needs to have the balls to tell Toriyama to give them more to work with.

He gave them plenty. People always say Toriyama needs to have an editor well now he has 2, Toyo and Toei.

His conception, their execution. The latter is really all that matters

[Miracles]

People are complaining about Tien and Kurrin's quick exodus? Can't moan when you consider an opponent out of their league folded their tents.
Those fodder matches they had in the anime were boring and a waste of time. Glad the TOP is a rapid battle royale like it should be.

[Lord Beerus]

Whenever I read the manga, it makes me sad when i realize just how little toriyama gives them to work with and how little he writes for anyone but the two main saiyans. Its a joke at this point

I'm made this comment before, and I'll say it again:

Someone needs to have the balls to tell Toriyama to give them more to work with.

He gave them plenty. People always say Toriyama needs to have an editor well now he has 2, Toyo and Toei.

His conception, their execution. The latter is really all that matters

Toriyama gave Toei and Toyotaro nowhere near enough to work with the given the context of the Tournament Of Power.

[Dragono]

I'm made this comment before, and I'll say it again:

Someone needs to have the balls to tell Toriyama to give them more to work with.

He gave them plenty. People always say Toriyama needs to have an editor well now he has 2, Toyo and Toei.

His conception, their execution. The latter is really all that matters

Toriyama gave Toei and Toyotaro nowhere near enough to work with the given the context of the Tournament Of Power.

What context? Its just a bunch of fights, my friend. There is no plot here and that is fine.



Let me simplify it, He gave them a toybox with a bunch of toys and a table, he told them play with them however you see fit but these ones need to be put away in a certain order and these 3 are untouchable.


Toei used Krillin differently because they wanted to and Toyotara used Frost differently because he wanted to. Whats wrong with giving them freedom to do that?


Do...do you not trust them?

[precita]

People are complaining about Tien and Kurrin's quick exodus? Can't moan when you consider an opponent out of their league folded their tents.
Those fodder matches they had in the anime were boring and a waste of time. Glad the TOP is a rapid battle royale like it should be.

Because then why are they even here? They should have just had 5 characters from each universe then. You don't include 10 main characters and not give each character something to do. It's just bad writing.

[Dragono]

People are complaining about Tien and Kurrin's quick exodus? Can't moan when you consider an opponent out of their league folded their tents.
Those fodder matches they had in the anime were boring and a waste of time. Glad the TOP is a rapid battle royale like it should be.

Because then why are they even here? They should have just had 5 characters from each universe then. You don't include 10 main characters and not give each character something to do. It's just bad writing.

That is not what bad writing is. Thats your favorite character not doing more than what you want. Krillin and Tien were never hyped up in this more to do more than just fill up the 10 member slot and lets be real, if the number were lower and they were not here, you all would have complained that Toriyama didn't want to include them.


Tien, Roshi and Krillin are weak but if Goten and Trunks and buu were here, they would be the 3 out because thats the order, these 3 went out in.

[prince212]

He gave them plenty. People always say Toriyama needs to have an editor well now he has 2, Toyo and Toei.

His conception, their execution. The latter is really all that matters

Toriyama gave Toei and Toyotaro nowhere near enough to work with the given the context of the Tournament Of Power.

What context? Its just a bunch of fights, my friend. There is no plot here and that is fine.



Let me simplify it, He gave them a toybox with a bunch of toys and a table, he told them play with them however you see fit but these ones need to be put away in a certain order and these 3 are untouchable.


Toei used Krillin differently because they wanted to and Toyotara used Frost differently because he wanted to. Whats wrong with giving them freedom to do that?


Do...do you not trust them?

Brilliant

[precita]

People are complaining about Tien and Kurrin's quick exodus? Can't moan when you consider an opponent out of their league folded their tents.
Those fodder matches they had in the anime were boring and a waste of time. Glad the TOP is a rapid battle royale like it should be.

Because then why are they even here? They should have just had 5 characters from each universe then. You don't include 10 main characters and not give each character something to do. It's just bad writing.

That is not what bad writing is. Thats your favorite character not doing more than what you want. Krillin and Tien were never hyped up in this more to do more than just fill up the 10 member slot and lets be real, if the number were lower and they were not here, you all would have complained that Toriyama didn't want to include them.


Tien, Roshi and Krillin are weak but if Goten and Trunks and buu were here, they would be the 3 out because thats the order, these 3 went out in.

And yet Toriyama decided the 10 person thing for a reason, it's expecting that like the anime showed, each character get something to do. Tien did the least in the anime but at least they showed him do something before going down.

It's not about who is the weakest, of course the humans will always be the weakest, it's their inclusion in the story that you expect them to do something or leave them out entirely.

[TobyS]

I never realised what a capacity for nerd rage I had till these leaks.

Why bring them back to do nothing and fucking bait us into getting our hopes up. Even the famously Goku wanking anime didn't do that much bs.

Frost taking them out doesn't even work as the Worf effect because we already knew he was tough from the previous tourney.

Freeza taking him out doesn't redeem it because it was his fucking bullshit idea to attack his own team.

Taking out no one defeats the whole point of leaving the more powerful but dumber kids behind....

The experience bullshit was just a shitty excuse to include the stupid rapey gag character who already passed the torch and completed his arc fucking years ago......

And it makes Gohan and Piccolo look like fucking assholes for not protecting the humans when they started huddled up.

I'm so mad about this, their treatment got enough complaints in the anime you think he'd deliberately alter it.

Fucking Tokyo. I can't believe Xenoverse is the only spin off giving the humans any respect....

What a shit icing on the shit cakey day has been today.

It's so pointless and mean spirited what a stupid pandering lazy franchise. Thank god Berserk/One Punch and AoT are rad right now, can't believe my favourite could be so weak... Killed my post infinity war trailer buzz...

[Zamasu55]

I never realised what a capacity for nerd rage I had till these leaks.

Why bring them back to do nothing and fucking bait us into getting our hopes up. Even the famously Goku wanking anime didn't do that much bs.

Frost taking them out doesn't even work as the Worf effect because we already knew he was tough from the previous tourney.

Freeza taking him out doesn't redeem it because it was his fucking bullshit idea to attack his own team.

Taking out no one defeats the whole point of leaving the more powerful but dumber kids behind....

The experience bullshit was just a shitty excuse to include the stupid rapey gag character who already passed the torch and completed his arc fucking years ago......

And it makes Gohan and Piccolo look like fucking assholes for not protecting the humans when they started huddled up.

I'm so mad about this, their treatment got enough complaints in the anime you think he'd deliberately alter it.

Fucking Tokyo. I can't believe Xenoverse is the only spin off giving the humans any respect....

What a shit icing on the shit cakey day has been today.

It's so pointless and mean spirited what a stupid pandering lazy franchise. Thank god Berserk/One Punch and AoT are rad right now, can't believe my favourite could be so weak... Killed my post infinity war trailer buzz...

Wait a second.

- "Why bring them back to do nothing and fucking bait us into getting our hopes up. Even the famously Goku wanking anime didn't do that much bs."
What? Last time I checked, Krillin himself stated he was weaker than before, and Tenshinhan's recruitment happened off-screen. If that got your hopes up, well it's your fault, because I expected pretty much this (except the 0 eliminations).

- "And it makes Gohan and Piccolo look like fucking assholes for not protecting the humans when they started huddled up."
We don't know what happened yet. Probably Magetta and the Trio de Danger spread up the group.

[Dragono]

Because then why are they even here? They should have just had 5 characters from each universe then. You don't include 10 main characters and not give each character something to do. It's just bad writing.

That is not what bad writing is. Thats your favorite character not doing more than what you want. Krillin and Tien were never hyped up in this more to do more than just fill up the 10 member slot and lets be real, if the number were lower and they were not here, you all would have complained that Toriyama didn't want to include them.


Tien, Roshi and Krillin are weak but if Goten and Trunks and buu were here, they would be the 3 out because thats the order, these 3 went out in.

And yet Toriyama decided the 10 person thing for a reason, it's expecting that like the anime showed, each character get something to do. Tien did the least in the anime but at least they showed him do something before going down.

It's not about who is the weakest, of course the humans will always be the weakest, it's their inclusion in the story that you expect them to do something or leave them out entirely.

I'm going to have to stop you right there. I'm only speculating but I personally believe Toriyama picked the scale of this arc because he didn't have to write himself but he thought it was a good idea because it freaking is.


Toyo is a fan and Toei is a buisness. So their interpretations are going to be different based off that view. Toyo will use the characters he wants to. I'm also a fan and I'm not going to lie I probably would have thrown those 2 out as quickly as possibly too. Not because I don't like them but because I like them the least and someone has to go to show that I'm not pandering because in all honesty thats what Toei did. Now, I loved it but even I had to admit that yeah, Krillin, Tien and Roshi should not be this awesome. Goten and Trunks should not be that awesome since thy have screwed up every real fight they have every been in.

I'm sorry if your fanheart is hurt but logically, this does make sense.

[Omniboy]

Why did Toriyama put Tien and Krillin in the tournament if he didn't want them to do anything?Why bother putting 10 people on a team? I knew that from offset that they were not as important as the anime TRIED to make them look ( I say tried because neither really were important at all) but I didn't know that it was this bad.

I will wait until the chapter comes out for full context because if recall people were pissed off about Goku's treatment in the next two episodes in the anime only for them to find out that want they got from spoilers wasn't actually the case but still...

[JazzMazz]

Kuririn and Tien didn't recieve any build-up for them doing well, Kuririn is stated to be out of touch, and Tien wasn't even recruited on panel. I don't see how people could expect big things from them.

Eliminating two warriors from the get go is a good idea though. It leaves universe 7 with some kind of numbers disadvantage and actually makes the field feel somewhat competitive in comparison to the anime, where universe 7 literally annihilated everyone easily.

Also, hopefully Roshi's out next chapter, espicially considering how closely eliminated they were in conjunction to the anime.

Having early eliminations actually helps create a sense of tension, espicially if they're behind other universes in terms of numbers, or merely neck and neck with them.

In other words, there eliminations do serve a point in progressing and benefitting the story.

Can't pass full judgment yet, but I'm looking forward to it based on the outline.

[Miracles]

Because then why are they even here? They should have just had 5 characters from each universe then. You don't include 10 main characters and not give each character something to do. It's just bad writing.

I believe it's like TOEI stated. They felt Toriyama brought these characters to be used in a more skillful way rather than battle power.
However, it seems Toyotaro and TOEI dropped the ball there.They were possibly brought along just to fulfill the roster requirement.
It wouldn't be bad writing if an opponent way out of their pay grade popped these balloons too. It is a waste tho to bring them and do nothing with them.

[TobyS]

That is not what bad writing is. Thats your favorite character not doing more than what you want. Krillin and Tien were never hyped up in this more to do more than just fill up the 10 member slot and lets be real, if the number were lower and they were not here, you all would have complained that Toriyama didn't want to include them.


Tien, Roshi and Krillin are weak but if Goten and Trunks and buu were here, they would be the 3 out because thats the order, these 3 went out in.

And yet Toriyama decided the 10 person thing for a reason, it's expecting that like the anime showed, each character get something to do. Tien did the least in the anime but at least they showed him do something before going down.

It's not about who is the weakest, of course the humans will always be the weakest, it's their inclusion in the story that you expect them to do something or leave them out entirely.

I'm going to have to stop you right there. I'm only speculating but I personally believe Toriyama picked the scale of this arc because he didn't have to write himself but he thought it was a good idea because it freaking is.


Toyo is a fan and Toei is a buisness. So their interpretations are going to be different based off that view. Toyo will use the characters he wants to. I'm also a fan and I'm not going to lie I probably would have thrown those 2 out as quickly as possibly too. Not because I don't like them but because I like them the least and someone has to go to show that I'm not pandering because in all honesty thats what Toei did. Now, I loved it but even I had to admit that yeah, Krillin, Tien and Roshi should not be this awesome. Goten and Trunks should not be that awesome since thy have screwed up every real fight they have every been in.

I'm sorry if your fanheart is hurt but logically, this does make sense.

No it doesn't. These are totally different universes we have never ever seen before. They could have fighters of completely different skill levels. There's no previously established facts to contradict. Every universe could be full of jiren tier dudes or farmers with shotguns.

This was literally the absolute narratively perfect opportunity to bring back the human fighters and give them ANYTHING to do. And they did bring them back, gave a reason for including them... And then had them thrashed by a shitty Freeza clone, which served no purpose to establish a threat or anything...

You say you like them but I think you are just saying that to sound reasonable. Even if you liked them one tenth as much as say, Vegeta, well he's already had like 100 times as much panel time, so even then it'd be more cool and varied to switch it up and showcase them.

If your happy with the manga that's totally cool but you and that other guy need to stop telling other people how to feel about subjective shit.

“I'm going to have to stop you right there.”
You didn't “have to” you just wanted to.

Why can't people literally just be like “yeah I'm fine with the events of this chapter but I can see how fans of those two characters would be hugely betrayed.” it's always gotta be actually your feelings are wrong because I felt differently.

[Exline]

-What context? Its just a bunch of fights, my friend. There is no plot here and that is fine.
-Let me simplify it, He gave them a toybox with a bunch of toys and a table, he told them play with them however you see fit but these ones need to be put away in a certain order and these 3 are untouchable.
-Toei used Krillin differently because they wanted to and Toyotara used Frost differently because he wanted to. Whats wrong with giving them freedom to do that?
-Do...do you not trust them?

Because then why are they even here? They should have just had 5 characters from each universe then. You don't include 10 main characters and not give each character something to do. It's just bad writing.

-That is not what bad writing is. Thats your favorite character not doing more than what you want. Krillin and Tien were never hyped up in this more to do more than just fill up the 10 member slot and lets be real, if the number were lower and they were not here, you all would have complained that Toriyama didn't want to include them.
-Tien, Roshi and Krillin are weak but if Goten and Trunks and buu were here, they would be the 3 out because thats the order, these 3 went out in.

I want to disagree with this but I just can't. Dragono made such a compelling and true statement. It defines the fandom's complaints about their characters not doing what they expected from them when Toyotaro is the one in charge of playing with these characters. It is unreasonable to claim "bad writing" just because a character did not do what you wanted them to do.

However, you have to admit that this tournament is moving at an incredibly-fast pace with these quick eliminations as well as the supposedly off-screen eliminations we got with the other characters. The thing is, Krillin and Tien weren't exactly "hyped" in the manga version of the tournament, compared to their anime counterparts.

People are complaining about Tien and Kurrin's quick exodus? Can't moan when you consider an opponent out of their league folded their tents.
Those fodder matches they had in the anime were boring and a waste of time. Glad the TOP is a rapid battle royale like it should be.

Why are you excited for characters to be wasted? I don't understand this way of thinking. Dragon Ball is meant for dragging stories on, but executed well enough to suffice for the longer story (Well back in DB and DBZ days by Toriyama and the Anime). Don't want to seem rude, but you seem like one of the fans who just enjoy flashy fight scenes rather than focusing on the big picture. I can't speak for everyone else, but I've enjoyed most of the Tournament of Power up to it's last few episodes. Giving Caulifla, Kale, Ribrianne etc. more screentime was such a delight and I'm glad we got it. Who wants to be introduced to a bunch of new characters representing their universe in such a grand tournament, only for them be to immediately disregarded..?

[ToshioWrites]

Did anyone else have any interesting scuffles or interactions ? Pride troopers ? Hit ? Vegeta ? Etc
Anyone know ?