Kid Goku GT vs. SSGSS Goku?

[Low Tone G]

It depends, there's no way to know for sure. We've had rage Vegeta which seems to have surpassed SSJ Vegetto. Goku might've gotten stronger in DBS, but as it stands for me Beerus has ended up being thousands of times stronger than Z SSJ3 Goku.

Here's my list.

Spoiler:

Whis - 150,000
Beerus - 100,000
Godku - 60,000
Vegetto SSJ3 - 12,000 (This truly fits with Goku not thinking a world like SSJG could exist.)
Beerus 10% - 10,000
Vegetto SSJ2 - 3,000
Vegeta rage - 3,000
Vegetto SSJ - 1,500
Chou Gohan - 48 (1.5x stronger than SSJ3 Gotenks.)
SSJ3 Gotenks - 32
Base Vegetto - 30
SSJ Gotenks - 4 (1.5 x stronger than SSJ3 Goku)
SSJ3 Goku Z - 2.6

The power levels of the characters that appeared in the Boo arc I have left at what I've always believed them to be at. Yes, this list looks ridiculous, but it's only because the Boo arc had crazy power levels which this has taken to a whole new level. Because of the power levels looking to ridiculous I've had to drop base Vegetto to a bit more than half of Gohan, and I used to have him equal, but then rage Vegeta happened. I'm just glad that I don't have base Gotenks equal to SSJ3 Goku.

Really, people, really? Should we think that Vegeta could surpass Vegetto when Vegetto contains him? I can accept to surpass Base Vegetto, but Super Vegetto?

It kinda is logical though. Beerus used way less that 1% when he stomped SSJ3 Goku in both BOG and Super. And it was from that power that Goku felt Beerus was using that he concluded that Fusion, both Fusion Dance and Potara, wouldn't be enough to defeat Beerus at the power that he was using. Which was way less than 1%. Then SSJ2 Rageta takes on Beerus and Beerus has to very near to 10% of power to tank of Vegeta's assault. That would place way above Vegetto and Super Vegetto, considering Goku would know how strong SSJ Vegetto would be, if he thought Vegetto would stand no chance against Beerus at least than 1%.

But Super Vegetto is at very least 50x SSJ3 Goku.... And Gohan's rage boosts have never been higher than 10-20x. I can accept SSJ2 Rage Vegeta to Super surpass Goku as SSJ3, but surpassing Super Vegetto is way too much. The biggest fault that Toei made to give a percentage of the power of Beerus needed against Rage Vegeta. Vegeta would need to be over 200X stronger than his normal SSJ2 to be on par with Super Vegetto. No way, that's too much. In my view Beerus only needs to be at 1% of power to stand up against SSJ3 Vegetto BOG saga as Goku's decision to not use him to make sense. I can not see Vegeta to reach 10% of Beerus power through a simple anger boost. I can not accept Rage Vegeta to surpass Super Vegetto, he should be NOT even close.

[Doctor.]

It's stupid, but you have to accept it because it's true. If Vegeta reached 10% of Beerus' power, or close to that, then he's superior to SS Vegetto, or around the same level of strength. If you say it yourself that Beerus only needs 1% of power to deal with Vegetto and Vegeta gives 10% Beerus a good run for his money, then you shouldn't even be debating this.

[Low Tone G]

It's stupid, but you have to accept it because it's true. If Vegeta reached 10% of Beerus' power, or close to that, then he's superior to SS Vegetto, or around the same level of strength. If you say it yourself that Beerus only needs 1% of power to deal with Vegetto and Vegeta gives 10% Beerus a good run for his money, then you shouldn't even be debating this.

I want to point out that to have Beerus using 1/10 of his true power against Vegeta when Vegetto isn't an option it's simply stupid. Vegeta must be lower than Super Vegetto, no matter what. Let's imagine Vegeta to be 7% of Beerus' full power, then imagine a berserk Vegetto? (who contains this talented Vegeta)

[Saiyan007]

It's stupid, but you have to accept it because it's true. If Vegeta reached 10% of Beerus' power, or close to that, then he's superior to SS Vegetto, or around the same level of strength. If you say it yourself that Beerus only needs 1% of power to deal with Vegetto and Vegeta gives 10% Beerus a good run for his money, then you shouldn't even be debating this.

I want to point out that to have Beerus using 1/10 of his true power against Vegeta when Vegetto isn't an option it's simply stupid. Vegeta must be lower than Super Vegetto, no matter what. Let's imagine Vegeta to be 7% of Beerus' full power, then imagine a berserk Vegetto? (who contains this talented Vegeta)

Not according to what Super implies if Vegito is stronger than rage Vegeta what would be the point of SSJG and Goku saying he never knew a world like this existed?

Raging Vegeta > Vegito it's stupid but that's the way how it is

[Pocket-God]

Rage Vegeta = 10% Beerus?
In the sub i have Beerus says that it's been a while since he's used 1%

Anyway SSJ3 Goku being less than 0.50% Beerus is just ridiculous, why does everyone think that cat is so god damn strong?
So if SSJ3 Goku = 0.50% Beerus
then GT Goku SSJ should = 25% Beerus
and GT Goku SSJ2 should = 50% Beerus
and GT Goku SSJ3 should = 200% Beerus
so SSGSS Goku would still get stomped and i'm just low balling here.

and as to why everyone thinks GT Base goku =Z Goku SSJ3 is because Base GT Goku stomps Rildo who, according to Goku is stronger than Buu so GT Base Goku should actually be way stronger than Z Goku SSJ3

[Saiyan007]

Rage Vegeta = 10% Beerus?
In the sub i have Beerus says that it's been a while since he's used 1%

Anyway SSJ3 Goku being less than 0.50% Beerus is just ridiculous, why does everyone think that cat is so god damn strong?
So if SSJ3 Goku = 0.50% Beerus
then GT Goku SSJ should = 25% Beerus
and GT Goku SSJ2 should = 50% Beerus
and GT Goku SSJ3 should = 200% Beerus
so SSGSS Goku would still get stomped and i'm just low balling here.

and as to why everyone thinks GT Base goku =Z Goku SSJ3 is because Base GT Goku stomps Rildo who, according to Goku is stronger than Buu so GT Base Goku should actually be way stronger than Z Goku SSJ3

Beerus could have been using 0.0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% of his power vs SSj3 Goku


All we know is Beerus at 10% can effortlessly 1 shot Raged Vegeta

[Doctor.]

It's stupid, but you have to accept it because it's true. If Vegeta reached 10% of Beerus' power, or close to that, then he's superior to SS Vegetto, or around the same level of strength. If you say it yourself that Beerus only needs 1% of power to deal with Vegetto and Vegeta gives 10% Beerus a good run for his money, then you shouldn't even be debating this.

I want to point out that to have Beerus using 1/10 of his true power against Vegeta when Vegetto isn't an option it's simply stupid. Vegeta must be lower than Super Vegetto, no matter what. Let's imagine Vegeta to be 7% of Beerus' full power, then imagine a berserk Vegetto? (who contains this talented Vegeta)

We're not saying rage Vegeta > rage Vegetto. We're saying that Vegeta with his rage boost is stronger than regular Vegetto.

[GTX]

Rage Vegeta = 10% Beerus?
In the sub i have Beerus says that it's been a while since he's used 1%

Anyway SSJ3 Goku being less than 0.50% Beerus is just ridiculous, why does everyone think that cat is so god damn strong?
So if SSJ3 Goku = 0.50% Beerus
then GT Goku SSJ should = 25% Beerus
and GT Goku SSJ2 should = 50% Beerus
and GT Goku SSJ3 should = 200% Beerus
so SSGSS Goku would still get stomped and i'm just low balling here.

and as to why everyone thinks GT Base goku =Z Goku SSJ3 is because Base GT Goku stomps Rildo who, according to Goku is stronger than Buu so GT Base Goku should actually be way stronger than Z Goku SSJ3

Beerus could have been using 0.0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% of his power vs SSj3 Goku


All we know is Beerus at 10% can effortlessly 1 shot Raged Vegeta

You can't use the number like that, imo .
In xenoverse it's stated by beerus that SSJ 4 vegeta can defeat beerus
In xenoverse whis stated that SSJ 4 goku deserved the god of destruction title.
If ssgss was strong he wouldn't get one shotted by laser.
SSGSS himself is consuming ki and by getting oneshotted by laser so the ki and the transformation itself are not strong enough to be able to resist the laser.

[Doctor.]

You can't use the number like that, imo .
In xenoverse it's stated by beerus that SSJ 4 vegeta can defeat beerus
In xenoverse whis stated that SSJ 4 goku deserved the god of destruction title.
If ssgss was strong he wouldn't get one shotted by laser.
SSGSS himself is consuming ki and by getting oneshotted by laser so the ki and the transformation itself are not strong enough to be able to resist the laser.

Xenoverse also implies that SS4 Gogeta is barely strong enough to deal with Beerus. Why does it matter that Whis said SS4 Goku deserved the God of Destruction title? He says the same thing to SSG Goku and we know he's weaker than Beerus. If SS4 was so strong, he wouldn't get hurt by glass, I can use that argument too.

[Low Tone G]

It's stupid, but you have to accept it because it's true. If Vegeta reached 10% of Beerus' power, or close to that, then he's superior to SS Vegetto, or around the same level of strength. If you say it yourself that Beerus only needs 1% of power to deal with Vegetto and Vegeta gives 10% Beerus a good run for his money, then you shouldn't even be debating this.

I want to point out that to have Beerus using 1/10 of his true power against Vegeta when Vegetto isn't an option it's simply stupid. Vegeta must be lower than Super Vegetto, no matter what. Let's imagine Vegeta to be 7% of Beerus' full power, then imagine a berserk Vegetto? (who contains this talented Vegeta)

We're not saying rage Vegeta > rage Vegetto. We're saying that Vegeta with his rage boost is stronger than regular Vegetto.

Yeah, but If Rage Vegeta can become more powerful that regular Super Vegetto, and Goku witnessed it, why didn't he think the things over, and still use Vegetto? Because with Vegetto's higher potential and Vegeta's talent he could possibly defeat Beerus... Goku right said Gohan to use his anger against Majin Buu in that saga. The situation is almost identical.

[Doctor.]

Yeah, but If Rage Vegeta can become more powerful that regular Super Vegetto, and Goku witnessed it, why didn't he think the things over, and still use Vegetto? Because with Vegetto's higher potential and Vegeta's talent he could possibly defeat Beerus... Goku right said Gohan to use his anger against Majin Buu in that saga. The situation is almost identical.

Because bringing out your rage isn't something you can do at will, that was Gohan's big ordeal in the fight against Cell.

[GTX]

You can't use the number like that, imo .
In xenoverse it's stated by beerus that SSJ 4 vegeta can defeat beerus
In xenoverse whis stated that SSJ 4 goku deserved the god of destruction title.
If ssgss was strong he wouldn't get one shotted by laser.
SSGSS himself is consuming ki and by getting oneshotted by laser so the ki and the transformation itself are not strong enough to be able to resist the laser.

Xenoverse also implies that SS4 Gogeta is barely strong enough to deal with Beerus. Why does it matter that Whis said SS4 Goku deserved the God of Destruction title? He says the same thing to SSG Goku and we know he's weaker than Beerus. If SS4 was so strong, he wouldn't get hurt by glass, I can use that argument too.

The glasses mostly not the cause. He already badly hurt or bleeding by continuous attack of omega shenron the glasses just more of plot device to show that goku's eyes are not blind anymore. The small pain comes because goku try to feel the surrounding using his already( at that point) ('lightly') injured hand.

Xenoverse also implies that SS4 Gogeta is barely strong enough to deal with Beerus

Not really, he said he can beat beerus. I don't think she said anything resemble the word 'being barely strong enough'.

[Doctor.]

Not really, he said he can beat beerus. I don't think she said anything resemble being barely strong enough.

He said "Maybe I can win against Lord Beerus now", that doesn't express certainty, that expresses that he's unsure about his chances of victory. Beerus also sounds bored against SS4 Vegeta and Goku when he fights them.

Not to mention that Xenoverse proves nothing, obviously.

[GTX]

Not really, he said he can beat beerus. I don't think she said anything resemble being barely strong enough.

He said "Maybe I can win against Lord Beerus now", that doesn't express certainty, that expresses that he's unsure about his chances of victory.

Not to mention that Xenoverse proves nothing, obviously.

That because goku is humble, kind and never insulting his opponent power level furthermore if he is not pure evil at this point.

[Doctor.]

That because goku is humble, kind and never insulting his opponent power level furthermore if he was not pure evil at this point.

This isn't Goku, this is Gogeta, who is extremely cocky in GT. Not to mention Goku is cocky himself, as he suggested fighting against Beerus in Super Saiyan 2 and was making a mockery of Golden Freeza. If Gogeta is actually doubtful he can win, then that most likely means he's weaker.

[GTX]

That because goku is humble, kind and never insulting his opponent power level furthermore if he was not pure evil at this point.

This isn't Goku, this is Gogeta, who is extremely cocky in GT. Not to mention Goku is cocky himself, as he suggested fighting against Beerus in Super Saiyan 2 and was making a mockery of Golden Freeza. If Gogeta is actually doubtful he can win, then that most likely means he's weaker.

About that i think i agree to disagree.

another option is It's mostly because beerus is someone he was respected that's why he called him sama. It's just gogeta being polite. Considering xenoverse crossover with BoG and RoF, whis does help him to save his mistake by making freeza killing everyone on earth and beerus also give him a chance to achieve SSG and spare the earth.

Beerus until know only stated to destroy something as part of his job. He is not pure evil like how freeza, kid buu, daimaou.

And about the cut. Goku had fought consecutively even before facing omega shenron so small bruise or cut in the hand was so much possible.

[Tectorman]

Yeah, but If Rage Vegeta can become more powerful that regular Super Vegetto, and Goku witnessed it, why didn't he think the things over, and still use Vegetto? Because with Vegetto's higher potential and Vegeta's talent he could possibly defeat Beerus... Goku right said Gohan to use his anger against Majin Buu in that saga. The situation is almost identical.

Beerus: You've got one last chance to show me this Super Saiyan God, or I will blow up your entire solar system.

Goku (having witnessed Raging Vegeta and pondered the possibility of a Raging Vegetto): Sorry, Lord Beerus, we can't do that, but if you'll wait a minute, I can go to the Supreme Kai's place and get a set of Potara earrings and give you just a good an opponent. What do you say?

Beerus: (has not heard what he wanted to hear, and has therefore blown up the solar system)

I'd say "not wanting to tick the irate cat god off further" is plenty of reason to not bother with a hypothetical Raging Vegetto.

And as far as the sheer ludicrous magnitude of Vegeta's rage boost? We don't know how they operate, and they may not have the same set rules. It might be that rage boosts are as swingy as sneak attacks. After all, Krillin was able to sneak attack Recoome despite a massive difference. SSJ Kid Trunks was able to send Fat Buu flying with a sneak attack. And Sorbet nearly killed SSJGSSJ Goku with a sneak attack, and he is how many orders of magnitude outclassed? Who's to say rage boosts don't work like that?

...

I do agree that the "10%" line is really annoying, but it's what we've got.

[Darkprince410]

No he's including himself because his ki can be sensed/ or felt by himself too that's the reason they can control it for many usage. Gohan can can create his ki to create proppeller by using his ki for flying, vegetto to move object and many other things.
Songoku can also feel his ki or his power getting stronger too .

You don't know that though. As shown regarding movie 12, Goku makes a comment that he's never felt a ki as incredible as Janemba's fat form, yet proceeds later to easily dominate him as Super Saiya-jin 3. If he included himself in comments regarding ki he felt, then why would he say that Janemba's is ki more incredible than anything he's ever felt before?

[singsing]

Yeah, but If Rage Vegeta can become more powerful that regular Super Vegetto, and Goku witnessed it, why didn't he think the things over, and still use Vegetto? Because with Vegetto's higher potential and Vegeta's talent he could possibly defeat Beerus... Goku right said Gohan to use his anger against Majin Buu in that saga. The situation is almost identical.

Beerus: You've got one last chance to show me this Super Saiyan God, or I will blow up your entire solar system.

Goku (having witnessed Raging Vegeta and pondered the possibility of a Raging Vegetto): Sorry, Lord Beerus, we can't do that, but if you'll wait a minute, I can go to the Supreme Kai's place and get a set of Potara earrings and give you just a good an opponent. What do you say?

Beerus: (has not heard what he wanted to hear, and has therefore blown up the solar system)

I'd say "not wanting to tick the irate cat god off further" is plenty of reason to not bother with a hypothetical Raging Vegetto.

And as far as the sheer ludicrous magnitude of Vegeta's rage boost? We don't know how they operate, and they may not have the same set rules. It might be that rage boosts are as swingy as sneak attacks. After all, Krillin was able to sneak attack Recoome despite a massive difference. SSJ Kid Trunks was able to send Fat Buu flying with a sneak attack. And Sorbet nearly killed SSJGSSJ Goku with a sneak attack, and he is how many orders of magnitude outclassed? Who's to say rage boosts don't work like that?

...

I do agree that the "10%" line is really annoying, but it's what we've got.

I mean, he can just say Vegetto is the Super Saiyan God...

[GTX]

No he's including himself because his ki can be sensed/ or felt by himself too that's the reason they can control it for many usage. Gohan can can create his ki to create proppeller by using his ki for flying, vegetto to move object and many other things.
Songoku can also feel his ki or his power getting stronger too .

You don't know that though. As shown regarding movie 12, Goku makes a comment that he's never felt a ki as incredible as Janemba's fat form, yet proceeds later to easily dominate him as Super Saiya-jin 3. If he included himself in comments regarding ki he felt, then why would he say that Janemba's is ki more incredible than anything he's ever felt before?

> incredible
i don't remember did i have watched fusion reborn before. Implying your statement is correct. He must be mean that his ki is amazing/ indredible or in other word is resemble magic. His ki can easily create portal easily and defying reality just like a magic power.