Kid Goku GT vs. SSGSS Goku?

[NeoKING]

Basically, who's more OP?

Kid Goku GT FTW. Has access to his even more OP SSJ forms, and of course SSJ4.

[Bullza]

GT Goku isn't even in the same league as SSGSS Goku. SSJ4 Goku was said to be weaker than Super Vegito from DBZ. SSGSS Goku is possibly significantly stronger than SSJ3 Vegito.

There's no contest at all.

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

GT Goku isn't even in the same league as SSGSS Goku. SSJ4 Goku was said to be weaker than Super Vegito from DBZ. SSGSS Goku is possibly significantly stronger than SSJ3 Vegito.

There's no contest at all.

Super Saiyan 4 Goku was never said to be weaker than Super Vegetto, that's subjective.

As for the topic, Godku is probably more overpowered, there's evidence to suggest Godku, Beers, and Whiss are above a BOG SS3 Vegetto by a substantial amount, and the anime comic for the GT special limits SS4 Goku to within Vegetto's tier, I take it to mean overall, so I only place him right around Buu arc SS3 Vegetto.

[Saiyan007]

SSJG Goku hits a lot harder after watching Fukkatsu No F SSJGSS strikes>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 4th form ki drained Freeza who can just slap earth with just the palm of his hand and make it explode

now gt may be strong but I don't recall anyone physicaly destroying earth with their hands

[Hitiro]

GT Goku isn't even in the same league as SSGSS Goku. SSJ4 Goku was said to be weaker than Super Vegito from DBZ. SSGSS Goku is possibly significantly stronger than SSJ3 Vegito.

There's no contest at all.

Super Saiyan 4 Goku was never said to be weaker than Super Vegetto, that's subjective.

As for the topic, Godku is probably more overpowered, there's evidence to suggest Godku, Beers, and Whiss are above a BOG SS3 Vegetto by a substantial amount, and the anime comic for the GT special limits SS4 Goku to within Vegetto's tier, I take it to mean overall, so I only place him right around Buu arc SS3 Vegetto.

What is the whole Vegetto saying? Is it referring just to base Vegetto, Super Vegetto, or Vegetto in general?

Well, here's the whole thing about Vegetto:

Merging With Vegeta!
After Goku and Vegeta use a merging item to merge, they become Vegetto! They can furthermore become a Super Saiyan, making them Super Vegetto! After the two strongest people merge, they become the greatest master in the universe! Perhaps even stronger than Super Saiyan 4!

So it seems to be talking about Vegetto in general.

(It's fun to practice my Chinese, though I'm learning Mandarin rather than Cantonese.)

It pretty much says that Vegetto is perhaps even stronger than SSJ4. So it isn't really subjective.

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

Exactly, it's talking about Vegetto in general, meaning whether it means SS1 or SS3 is subjective.

[Hitiro]

Exactly, it's talking about Vegetto in general, meaning whether it means SS1 or SS3 is subjective.

It wouldn't mean SSJ3. Because Vegetto had never demonstrated that. And this whole section is about what Goku had attained over the franchise. It would be illogical to include something that hadn't been demonstrated. Even ignoring the fact that this page was talking about Goku's progression over the franchise I would also think if they were going to go that far then they would have said something like "It may even be possible for them to become SSJ3 as Vegetto?!" The only possibilities here really are base and SSJ. Frankly I find it would be ridiculous to think that it is talking about Base Vegetto considering that would make Vegetto an incredible beast.

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

I don't really see why you get to decide what it has to mean. I can interpret as meaning Super Saiyan 3, many others I know do as well. It fits perfectly with everything else shown in the show.

[Hitiro]

I don't really see why you get to decide what it has to mean. I can interpret as meaning Super Saiyan 3, many others I know do as well. It fits perfectly with everything else shown in the show.

You only interpret it that way because you don't want any form of Vegetto that already exists to be above SSJ4 Goku. I don't go and look at Herms strength checker translations on this site and look at the "in general" part of the characters and assume that it's talking about a hypothetical transformation they may or may not be able to obtain. For instance:

Chapter: 335 (DBZ 141), P9.4
Trunks: “Knowing your strength, Goku, I have a little hope.”

^ Herms puts this as "in general" so obviously I must conclude that this is talking about SSJ2, right? No.

You can be unhappy about Vegetto besting SSJ4 Goku all you want but the simple fact of the matter is "in general" has never meant a hypothetical transformation we're not even sure they can obtain.

[pacz360]

Honestly its almost impossible to tell which is stronger due to gt being non canon that and the fact that we don't know how guys like whis,beerus,golden freeza,god goku, god vegeta fit in gt power hierarchy.

[Bullza]

4th form ki drained Freeza who can just slap earth with just the palm of his hand and make it explode

That isn't how it happened.

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

I don't really see why you get to decide what it has to mean. I can interpret as meaning Super Saiyan 3, many others I know do as well. It fits perfectly with everything else shown in the show.

You only interpret it that way because you don't want any form of Vegetto that already exists to be above SSJ4 Goku. I don't go and look at Herms strength checker translations on this site and look at the "in general" part of the characters and assume that it's talking about a hypothetical transformation they may or may not be able to obtain. For instance:

Chapter: 335 (DBZ 141), P9.4
Trunks: “Knowing your strength, Goku, I have a little hope.”

^ Herms puts this as "in general" so obviously I must conclude that this is talking about SSJ2, right? No.

You can be unhappy about Vegetto besting SSJ4 Goku all you want but the simple fact of the matter is "in general" has never meant a hypothetical transformation we're not even sure they can obtain.

That's cool, but you really haven't convinced me at all. The anime comic does not say "Perhaps even stronger than Super Saiyan 4 when only a Super Saiyan 1!", it says "Perhaps even stronger than Super Saiyan 4!"

Thus it is subjective and can be interpreted in different ways.

There's really no sense in continuing this conversation, as you'll continually do that annoying thing where you break up my posts starting 100 different arguments within 1 to the point where it just gets tedious to even read through your replies. I already know about your bias against GT, you make it very clear.

I interpret the show differently than you, and I interpret the statements differently, so I will agree to disagree instead of ruining this thread with multiple pages of just going back and forth with neither of us convincing each other of anything.

[Hitiro]

That's cool, but you really haven't convinced me at all. The anime comic does not say "Perhaps even stronger than Super Saiyan 4 when only a Super Saiyan 1!", it says "Perhaps even stronger than Super Saiyan 4!"

Thus it is subjective and can be interpreted in different ways.

There's really no sense in continuing this conversation, as you'll continually do that annoying thing where you break up my posts starting 100 different arguments within 1 to the point where it just gets tedious to even read through your replies. I already know about your bias against GT, you make it very clear.

I interpret the show differently than you, and I interpret the statements differently, so I will agree to disagree instead of ruining this thread with multiple pages of just going back and forth with neither of us convincing each other of anything.

There are literally only two ways you can interpret this line. He is either possibly stronger than SSJ4 as a base Saiyan or a SSJ. As it is mentioning him generally we can only use what we generally know about Vegetto which is that he has a base form as well as a SSJ form. The whole page is dedicated to Goku's progression over the series. It is illogical to include things he has not even accomplished. And like I already pointed out to you "in general" has never implied hypothetical stuff.

I'm not going to continue this conversation after this point because it is you who has the bias here. You are just so blinded by your GT fandom you can't even accept what others are saying. Yes, I do not like the story of GT. It's incredibly shoddy in my opinion. But I don't have a bias against it. There are elements I like about the story. Such as the space adventure and SSJ4 are interesting concepts while I personally don't like the look of the SSJ4 form. I do like the idea of finding a new transformation/evolution through the Oozaru form. Other things I like about it are the dragon balls taking in evil and spawning the dragons and Giru. If I really had a bias towards this show then I wouldn't be saying it is more likely SSJ Vegetto is comparable to SS4 Vegetto rather than Base Vegetto. Or I would be pulling up stuff like the Daizenshuu referencing to the potara fusion being more like a multiplication of the two fusee's battle powers(because that would kind of support base Vegetto being much much stronger than SSJ4 Goku).

I think you need to take a hard look at your opinion. Because all I see is some GT "fanboy" trying to defend GT Goku with literally no argument. I'm sorry, but that's what it looks like to me. If you can prove that your opinion isn't flawed then I'm all for it. You're honestly free to think that it's on about SSJ3 even though that doesn't make sense in the slightest. But that's up to you really.

On topic though, I think it should be SSJGSSJ Goku who takes this because he is above Vegetto in general whereas only SSJ4 Goku is comparable to Vegetto in general.

[Saiyan007]

4th form ki drained Freeza who can just slap earth with just the palm of his hand and make it explode

That isn't how it happened.

Watching the scene multiple times shows that's basically what he did

No ki blast came from his hand just slammed on the planet

[Bullza]

Now that I look at again you might be right. I was under the impression he placed his hand to the ground then fired some blasts into the planet.

Hmmm.

Edit: It's a Kiai?

[fadeddreams5]

Is there any evidence at all that suggests Vegito can even go SSJ3?

[Polyphase Avatron]

Is there any evidence at all that suggests Vegito can even go SSJ3?

I think the best evidence is that Gotenks, who formed from Goten and Trunks fusion, could go SSJ3 even though neither Goten nor Trunks could individually, so a fusion formed from someone who can go SSJ3 and someone else who can go SSJ2 should be able to. But admittedly that's just speculation.

[Bullza]

Exactly, if some little kids who can only go Super Saiyan can fuse and turn into a SSJ3 then why wouldn't Vegito when they're made up of a stronger, more experienced pair of which one already knows how to become a SSJ3.

It'd make no sense for them not to be able to go SSJ3.

[fadeddreams5]

It's a solid theory based on what is previously seen in another fused character, and the fact that Goku himself can go SSJ3, but it's still just that: a theory. Nothing says Vegito can go beyond what we saw in the manga. It's very, very likely he can, but nothing is specifically stated on the matter, as far as I know. Naturally, that means any resources that refer to his power are going by what is directly shown in the story.

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

Well considering all of the evidence within GT suggesting Super Vegetto to be surpassed long before SS4 Goku, interpreting the statement as SS4 Goku being in SS3 Vegetto's league instead of Super Vegetto's league is my way of trying to not discard the anime comic, and it fits with everything else shown in the show.