How strong is Kaioshin and Piccolo ( Boo saga )

[Fox666]

Atlest its better than trolling.

And what do you mean by that? That Kaboom or someone else is a troll of sort, or are you just saying that there could be worse users than you?

Yes i compered. And yes i didnt knowed that Gohans SSJ2 characteristics are important so yea clearly on this forum everyone goes by SSJ2 characteristics and not logic and what is stated in manga and guidbooks.

And what do you call "logic"? This post of your certainly is not an example of it.

I see. You probably have Gohan as SSJ against Dabura so no wonder you say same thing.

Kaboom is by no means defending any position. The only thing he is saying is that you talk like no one is allowed to disagree with you. In fact that very reaction of your (that if someone criticizes you, he is against you) only strengthen his point.

SPC says he powered up like Gohan. Does that mean he is compering himself with 1% SSJ2 Gohan or 100% Gohan ?

Going by Herms' translation of the japanese material:

I had vastly powered up like Son Gohan…

It doesn't mean anything, except that you may be over-analyzing an unimportant line. The only thing it means is that Cell is stronger than he was before.

[LiamKav]

Lolz bad grammar. I see that most peoples understand what i sad and from far as i can see no one even mentioned something i writed wrong.
Atlest its better than trolling.

I would guess that a lot of people are assuming that English is your second language, and are giving you some slack. Doesn't mean it's not taking them two or three reads through to understand your posts.

Also, "lolz"? Really? In a non-ironic manner? Good grief...

[Super Vegetto]

And what do you mean by that? That Kaboom or someone else is a troll of sort, or are you just saying that there could be worse users than you?

I never called him a troll. Worst users than me ? You guess.

And what do you call "logic"? This post of your certainly is not an example of it.

I call logic something that can be explained. Gohans ssj2 characteristics can be explained. Gohan going SSJ2 without anger can be explained.
Gohan is clearly SSJ2.

Kaboom is by no means defending any position. The only thing he is saying is that you talk like no one is allowed to disagree with you. In fact that very reaction of your (that if someone criticizes you, he is against you) only strengthen his point.

You expect that i say : you are right and i am wrong ?

It doesn't mean anything, except that you may be over-analyzing an unimportant line. The only thing it means is that Cell is stronger than he was before.

Yes he came back weaker than ever. He can beat Gohan only with his tricks.


LiamKav : If you cant read what i posted than dont. Simple like that.

[Fox666]

I never called him a troll. Worst users than me ? You guess.

I have no idea of what you are talking here.

I call logic something that can be explained. Gohans ssj2 characteristics can be explained. Gohan going SSJ2 without anger can be explained.
Gohan is clearly SSJ2.

It doesn't matter if you say you are using of logic and the others don't. For each of your arguments, there has been a fair good answer in this thread, which seems to hurt you in some way.

You expect that i say : you are right and i am wrong ?

I don't know. Maybe you could say that you don't have all the answers?

Yes he came back weaker than ever. He can beat Gohan only with his tricks.

Being sarcastic won't make you right. Neither it is logical.

[TripleRach]

Super Vegetto, you don't have to admit defeat, but you do need to be more open-minded and respectful if you want to keep debating issues here. Your way is not the only way.

Everyone else, while your concern is appreciated, please leave the moderating to the moderators.

[Super Vegetto]

It doesn't matter if you say you are using of logic and the others don't. For each of your arguments, there has been a fair good answer in this thread, which seems to hurt you in some way.

Fair good answer ? Hurts me ? Basic thing here is that Gohan doesnt nead anger to go SSJ2. You obviously use Toei logic.

I don't know. Maybe you could say that you don't have all the answers?

I have more right answers and proof for this debate.


TripleRach : I think its best for me to leave this topic. I asked for How strong is Kaioshin and Piccolo but we got Is Gohan SSJ or SSJ2 so no point to even go further.

[012yArthur0]

Daizenshuu says that Dabura is around Cells level. One daizenshuu says that Gohan was never SSJ2 after world tournament, while other says diffrent. From all of this it still stays that Dabura is Cells level.

Also i whant some proof that says Gohan fought heavy suppressed Cell aka Dabura. But like i already sad Goku would say that he is same power level as him in Cell games rather than saying Cells level. To much complication doesnt make sence and like i already sad when you compere someone with someone you use full strenght because compering characters full power with heavy suppressed character is wierd. Just think about that.

Atleast one forum knows diffrence while this one neads 12 pages to prove something so i see no point to write something again.

If you guys whant proof of Gohan beeing SSJ2 read what i already writed but as far as i can see nothing here will change.

A few key points to make...

#1: Start improving your spelling and grammar. Leeway is given to those whose native language isn't English, but since you've given no indication that such is the case for you, you're expected to type properly and clearly. This post was a jumbled mess. You've been cut a lot of slack already, but if your posts' readability doesn't start improving soon, expect to start getting system warnings. Also, if you're going to quote people, please learn how to do so properly.

#2: This is at least the second time you've compared us to some other forum on this topic, and in such a critical manner as to say, "well this OTHER forum 'gets it,' so why don't you?" The fact of the matter is, any random other communities' majority opinion does not hold any bearing here. People are allowed to have their own opinions and debate against yours.

#3: Similarly, don't try to enforce your own rules for dialogue interpretation onto other people. "About as strong as Cell" means "about as strong as Cell." This is a very wide range and when you get down to it, any level of Cell is viable, because there were and are no other villains within that range. Cell was much, much stronger than any other villain up to that point, even when not at his full power. Therefore, opinions on how Dabra compares to Cell can and will vary quite a bit, and legitimately so. Other people have already tried to tell you this, but you still continue to act like you represent the only acceptable interpretation. That really isn't going to fly.

Lolz bad grammar. I see that most peoples understand what i sad and from far as i can see no one even mentioned something i writed wrong.
Atlest its better than trolling.

Yes i compered. And yes i didnt knowed that Gohans SSJ2 characteristics are important so yea clearly on this forum everyone goes by SSJ2 characteristics and not logic and what is stated in manga and guidbooks.

Well, since we're on the internet, we don't know who is and who isn't in any forum or site. However, grammar actually makes a efficient way to judge the poster intelligence, or at least, how much determined he want his post to be taken seriously. It's consistent enough to say that viewers give way more priority/credibility to the one who has a nice grammar than the one with a bad grammar. This, my friend, is Netiquette.

For example, I saw you mistype the word "said" two times, removing the I, it makes "sad", like you said "Sad Goku" made me think for some time about the relevance of Goku being sad with the actual topic.

And, again, you continue to ignore the other posters and keep saying that "SSj2 was logically his form against Dabura no matter what counter-proofs you have against this statement". If you don't mind to take your time to read, I can say that there are proofs for both sides. So, you can't simply ignore the counter proofs and shall judge on the way you feel like and we have to agree. If this topic is on, is because we want to see the closest yet. And yes, art can be used as a proof, since AT is skilled enough to don't misdraw a entire page.

Tl;dr : Work on you grammar for you own reputation's sake, and try to dicuss on the topic without making a indirect offense.

[Godo]

Fair good answer ? Hurts me ? Basic thing here is that Gohan doesnt nead anger to go SSJ2. You obviously use Toei logic.

What about Goku's line to Gohan about him needing to become angry to become strong enough? How do you explain that?

I have more right answers and proof for this debate.

But the thing is, you don't. A good deal of your "facts" and "proof" are not sustainable to use in a debate.
You could simply imply that you interpreted them as such, or that it's your opinion, that would actually fly for most of us.
But they are not proof, and will never be seen as proof.
And also, you can't use a source in a debate if it contradicts itself on the subject of debate. That's basic knowledge and debate-etiquette.

[Super Vegetto]

I guess my grammar is what makes you guys thinking i can't prove anything. From now on i won't type so much.

[VegettoEX]

I'll toss out there yet again, as Rach mentioned, but please leave the mini-modding to the actual moderation team . Thanks!

Especially for those of you who do not speak English as your primary language (but even some of the rest of you...), in these types of conversations where you're relying on these tiny little minutia of character dialog, chicken scratches in the manga, inconsistencies in art design, etc., it is incredibly important that your posts stand on their own and make complete sense.

While we do have a set of rules in place where we all agree to type properly, it's not like we're actually going through and correcting all of your posts... but again, in these types of conversations, it might behoove you to make sure you make as much sense as possible. Run-on sentences, missing punctuation, homophones... we're not going to correct them all for you, but if you're not taking your own writing seriously (and yet still expect to be taken seriously), what reason is there to?

I have no horse in the race, but if I were a casual reader, I'd probably start leaning toward the arguments that are easier to read and formatted the best. Think about that as you post in your debate threads! All the best "evidence" and "counter proofs" in the world aren't going to help you if reading your post is a chore. I'm not suggesting anyone "dumb down" what you're saying, but if you're not previewing and re-reading your posts before you make them, you're doing it wrong ^_~.

[012yArthur0]

I guess my grammar is what makes you guys thinking i can't prove anything. From now on i won't type so much.

Well, quality > quantity, so I recommend you to spell-check a bit before posting.

[dprez]

I guess my grammar is what makes you guys thinking i can't prove anything. From now on i won't type so much.

But it is actually what you are typing, and not how you are typing it...You're just interpreting things differently than others, but stating you're views like they are facts without even letting us know you read and understood our counter-points, and instead you just post your "logic" and "facts" over and over. I can honestly see why you think Gohan was a ssj2, with the statements that can be interpreted differently and all, but do you honestly understand why others feel he isn't a ssj2, aside from just the art?

Your grammar never really bothered me, but I am surprised it took this long for anyone to say anything.

[Fox666]

Fair good answer ? Hurts me ? Basic thing here is that Gohan doesnt nead anger to go SSJ2. You obviously use Toei logic.

"Obviously"? It looks like a random argument tossed out of nowhere.

I guess my grammar is what makes you guys thinking i can't prove anything. From now on i won't type so much.

No, it's not. The arguments you used are not undeniable as you think.