How strong is Kaioshin and Piccolo ( Boo saga )

[Super Vegetto]

Chapter: 447 (DBZ 253), P5.1-3
Kaioshin: “At any rate, it was a big miscalculation that Dabra is here. A combo of Babidi and Dabra…”
Vegeta: “Are you trying to say that our chances of victory have fallen considerably?”
Kaioshin: “…”

Dabura is > Teen Gohan SSJ2 from world tournament because Kaioshin knows how strong is he and later Dabura says that he can take down Gohan.

Chapter: 459 (DBZ 265), P2.2-3
Badidi: “How about it, Dabra? Just to be sure, do you have confidence that you can defeat that Earthling [Gohan]?”
Dabra: “Naturally. I fought him a little bit before, after all. There’s no doubt that I can take care of trash like that.”


Chapter: 447 (DBZ 253), P11.1-3
Context: talking about how Yamu and Spopovitch were followed by Goku and co.
Dabra: “Seems they’re trying to hide from us…In total…there are 7. We can’t use Kaioshin and Kibito’s energy…But 3 of them seem to have marvelous energy…”
Babidi: “Looks like it. It seems that we’ll get more than enough energy from just those 3…Kuhihihi…To think that we’d be able to revive Majin Boo so quickly…”

Chapter: 447 (DBZ 253), P11.4
Context: talking about how Yamu and Spopovitch were followed by Goku and co.
Babidi: “Get rid of the trash besides those 3 [Goku, Gohan, Vegeta], then return to the spaceship right away. That way, I think those 3 will fly into a rage and follow you inside for sure.”

Chapter: 439 (DBZ 245), P12.3-4
Context: after Piccolo resigns from his and Kaioshin's match
Goku: “That much, Piccolo?...”
Piccolo: “Yeah…Our dimensions…are too different…”
Kuririn: “Yo-you’re kidding, right? Stop joking around! I-I’ve got to fight him next.”
Note: Piccolo’s line is a pretty standard way of saying that someone is stronger than you. You can find a lot of instances of people being described as in “a different dimension” throughout these quotes, like Tenshinhan talking about Super Saiyan Goku, or the narrator describing final form Freeza. In Viz the line is made vaguer (“He is a different order of being”), which makes it sound like Piccolo could just be talking about how Kaioshin is a super-god, rather than about his strength per-say. Anyway, though Piccolo is pretty much flat-out saying Kaioshin is way stronger than him here, you could still argue that he's either mistaken or lying...I guess.

Piccolo got way weaker and he doesnt stand chance against Base Saiyans and also Kaioshin ?


Chapter: 444 (DBZ 250), P7.1-4
Gohan: “Well, I’ve become a Super Saiyan. Now what? Is it alright if I fight like this?”
Kibito: “…Wh-what tremendous power…I can’t believe he’s a being of the lower world!”
Vegeta: “…Hmph…That bastard, he was far, far better when he killed Cell. It’s because he slacked off in his training during peacetime…”
Kaioshin: “…No, even so this is magnificent energy, more so than I imagined…I wonder if I’ll be able to stop this power…”
Goku: “…Stop it?”

Kaioshin close to SSJ2 Teen Gohan level because he actualy stoped his powers ?

[dprez]

Weaker than the super saiyans, but stronger than the base saiyans.

[Godo]

First of all, Dabra and Babidi didn't know how to estimate how strong any fighter was. Sure, they could to a very basic extent, but not more.
Just the fact that they were constantly surprised over the power of the Saiyajins proves this.
And also, this seems to go for Kaioshin, unfortunately. We see him being scared about the Saiyajins fighting Babidis minions, even though he had seen Gohan's power at he tournament.

There isn't much to say about this question IMO. Everyone but the Saiyajins thought that Babidi would destroy them. And they were proved wrong.
Also, Dabra is a cocky bastard. He only says things to please Babidi. Seeing the fight, I doubt that he could take Ssj Gohan that easily.

And about the Kaioshin being stronger than Piccolo line...I don't believe that Piccolo got weaker (it's not his style to give up training). And I believe that Piccolo was scared of Kaioshin out of respect due to half of him is Kami, someone we have seen who have had a great respect for higher deities.
I can't believe for one second that Kaioshin was stronger...if he was, he wouldn't be that scared of Pui Pui. But that also proves how bad he was at reading someone's power.

I know that most people think differently, but meh. It's still no use to make any sense about that horribly written part of Dragonball.

[dprez]

And I believe that Piccolo was scared of Kaioshin out of respect due to half of him is Kami, someone we have seen who have had a great respect for higher deities.
I can't believe for one second that Kaioshin was stronger...if he was, he wouldn't be that scared of Pui Pui. But that also proves how bad he was at reading someone's power.

I know that most people think differently, but meh. It's still no use to make any sense about that horribly written part of Dragonball.

I should have posted this in the "Unpopular DB opinions" thread, for I agree with you Godo. Like 90% of the members here think otherwise, but It actually makes perfect sense for Piccolo to be scared of Kaioshin simply for who and what he is. It had to of been a complete mind fuck that he was there at all.

And yea, Kaioshin and Kibito can't sense power levels like the Z fighters can, not even close apparently.

[Super Vegetto]

First of all, Dabra and Babidi didn't know how to estimate how strong any fighter was. Sure, they could to a very basic extent, but not more.
Just the fact that they were constantly surprised over the power of the Saiyajins proves this.
And also, this seems to go for Kaioshin, unfortunately. We see him being scared about the Saiyajins fighting Babidis minions, even though he had seen Gohan's power at he tournament.

There isn't much to say about this question IMO. Everyone but the Saiyajins thought that Babidi would destroy them. And they were proved wrong.
Also, Dabra is a cocky bastard. He only says things to please Babidi. Seeing the fight, I doubt that he could take Ssj Gohan that easily.

And about the Kaioshin being stronger than Piccolo line...I don't believe that Piccolo got weaker (it's not his style to give up training). And I believe that Piccolo was scared of Kaioshin out of respect due to half of him is Kami, someone we have seen who have had a great respect for higher deities.
I can't believe for one second that Kaioshin was stronger...if he was, he wouldn't be that scared of Pui Pui. But that also proves how bad he was at reading someone's power.

I know that most people think differently, but meh. It's still no use to make any sense about that horribly written part of Dragonball.

Kaioshin was afraid of Babidis magic and because Pui-pui is his slave. He was only playing safe, because what if Babidi had magic to incrise Pui-pui power which could be above SSJ2 Gohan tournament. Only playing safe, but saiyans are saiyans.

Its Kaioshin > Pui-pui and that is after he realized Pui-pui is weakling compered to Base Vegeta who is weaker than SSJ2 Gohan.

He knows that SSJ2 Gohan on world tournament is weaker than Dabura. Other way he wouldnt think that chances of victory have fallen considerably.

Gohan was SSJ2 against Dabura, but no problem if you think that he was only FPSSJ.

[dprez]

He knows that SSJ2 Gohan on world tournament is weaker than Dabura. Other way he wouldnt think that chances of victory have fallen considerably.

Not exactly. Kaioshin cannot sense power like the the Z fighters can. It's the only way to explain him fearing Dabura and co. after witnessing a SSj2.

[Kaboom]

I'm of the mindset that both Piccolo and Kaioshin at this point are both in the ballpark of Vegeta and Trunks at the Cell Games (Piccolo being on the lower end of that power range and Kaioshin in the higher end). That of they're both amazingly strong, but still lagging considerably behind the power of the adult Super Saiyans, even the weakened Gohan. Dabra too, for that matter.

As much as I like Piccolo a thousand times more than Kaioshin, I don't see any real need to deny that Piccolo's the weaker of the two. Kaioshin's such an unreliable wuss that it really doesn't matter in the end anyway.

[Super Vegetto]

He knows that SSJ2 Gohan on world tournament is weaker than Dabura. Other way he wouldnt think that chances of victory have fallen considerably.

Not exactly. Kaioshin cannot sense power like the the Z fighters can. It's the only way to explain him fearing Dabura and co. after witnessing a SSj2.

Well Kaioshin knows about Dabura and how strong is Dabura compered to Gohan on world tournament.

I bet sayians wouldnt be so confident without SSJ2 form.

[dprez]

That's the thing though. Kaioshin is bad at comparing powers.

[Super Vegetto]

That's the thing though. Kaioshin is bad at comparing powers.

I'm not sure that he doesnt know how to compere powers.

I think he was only afraid of Babidi magic because he created Kid boo. He should have strong guys around him.

Also i use SSJ2 Gohan vs Dabura because Gohans energy got weaker which is not weaknes of FPSSJ form and reason why Supreme kai knows that chances are not good even with SSJ2 Gohan power from world tournament.

[dprez]

Also i use SSJ2 Gohan vs Dabura because Gohans energy got weaker which is not weaknes of FPSSJ form and reason why Supreme kai knows that chances are not good even with SSJ2 Gohan power from world tournament.

Not sure what you mean here.

I just go by the eye-test for this one. Kaioshin is simply bad at sensing power. This explains his behavior the entire time they are inside Babibids spaceship. Makes more sense than Gohan being Ssj2 against Dabura quite frankly.

[Super Vegetto]

Also i use SSJ2 Gohan vs Dabura because Gohans energy got weaker which is not weaknes of FPSSJ form and reason why Supreme kai knows that chances are not good even with SSJ2 Gohan power from world tournament.

Not sure what you mean here.

I just go by the eye-test for this one. Kaioshin is simply bad at sensing power. This explains his behavior the entire time they are inside Babibids spaceship. Makes more sense than Gohan being Ssj2 against Dabura quite frankly.

Can you show it, because i remember that he sad Babidi shouldnt be underestimated ( the reason he was careful all the time ), but sayians didnt cared about Babidi and his magic.

[dprez]

Why is Kaioshin so scared of fighters weaker than Ssj2 Gohan after just seeing Ssj2 Gohan?

[Super Vegetto]

Why is Kaioshin so scared of fighters weaker than Ssj2 Gohan after just seeing Ssj2 Gohan?

Like i already sad :

He is scared because they are slaves and have majin seal and maybe even gerater power than SSJ2 Gohan on world tournament.

Most important is that he is scared of Babidis magic and what his magic can do. Also if Babidi had Dabura ( Kaioshin is scared of him because he knows Dabura > Gohan and him ), other slaves should be powerfull so again he was extra carefull and acted like a kid around saiyans.

[dprez]

Your opinion seams to stem from your belief that Gohan was a Ssj2 against Dabura, which I don't believe.

Anyway, Kaioshin is very unreliable. Just because Dabura pops out and Kaioshin says their chances have fallen considerably, does not mean Ssj2 Gohan at the tournament is weaker than Dabura. It just means Kaioshin can't compare and contrast power levels for crap, and that Dabura is the freaking kind of demons and now under Babidi's control.

[Hitiro]

Like i already sad :

He is scared because they are slaves and have majin seal and maybe even gerater power than SSJ2 Gohan on world tournament.

Most important is that he is scared of Babidis magic and what his magic can do. Also if Babidi had Dabura ( Kaioshin is scared of him because he knows Dabura > Gohan and him ), other slaves should be powerfull so again he was extra carefull and acted like a kid around saiyans.

When Vegeta was fighting Pui Pui and they get transported to his homeworld where gravity is 10 times that of Earth Vegeta says that the gravity is nothing and quickly defeats him. This shocks Kaioshin and Babidi as to how easily he dispatched Pui Pui, after the battle Kaioshin stares in amazement and says "I never dreamed they were this powerful." Clearly Kaioshin had a hard time determining their strength as he wouldn't be so shocked, infact, if Kaioshin understood these things and he could sense energy well he too would have noticed that Pui Pui was no match for them. Goku, Vegeta and Gohan already knew that the battle was going to be over quick before it even started.

After Goku, Vegeta and Gohan move on to the next floor to fight Yakon they also talk about Dabura and and Buu. Vegeta remarks that Buu is probably not all he's cracked up to be if he's anything like Dabura. Kaioshin asks what he means by this and Vegeta replies by saying "We all saw Dabura outside, any one of us could of handled him as long as we dodge his saliva." Kaioshin then asks Goku if this is true and Goku replies by saying "Yeah, at our levels now we could handle him. But he would have been bad news before." he then says "There was a guy named Cell seven years ago, they are probably about the same level." Kaioshin then thinks to himself "Are Super Saiyans really that strong? Come to think of it, it was difficult to paralyze Gohan when he was a Super Saiyan and he wasn't even at full power?" So I think with this you can gather that Kaioshin was completely rubbish at gauging the strength of the Saiyan's and was over-estimating their opponents because he was rubbish at gauging peoples strength in general.

To be honest I'm not sure if Kaioshin is all that strong, he may have some pretty neat attacks which make full use of his ki but other than that he doesn't seem like much of a challenge to Piccolo. The fact that he can blow Buu back with some sort of Kiai type move means nothing as we have seen Tien hold back Imperfect Cell who was leagues above him in power. All we can gather from this is that he has techniques that effectively use his ki to put him on par with more powerful characters. Kind of like how Piccolo was much weaker than Raditz but had a move that could defeat Raditz easily if he could hit him.

[dprez]

^Well said. I agree 100%.

[Super Vegetto]

Kaioshin stated that chances are not good because Dabura is there. He knows that Dabura is stronger than him and initial SSJ2 Gohan in world tournament, otherway he wouldnt be so paranoid.
He saw Gohan SSJ2 powers on world tournament, but that is only transformation, not Gohan that relised much more power infront of Buus shell.

You guys do relize its Full power Perfect Cell > Initial SSJ2 Kid Gohan enraged in powers, but Gohan powers up so fast like Goku against Reccome that no one noticed Gohans true power aganist Full power Perfect Cell.

Gohan is stated to be under Dabura and later they fight almost equal. Goku stated that he didnt complitly lost, which means Kaioshin was right. Goku counted on Gohan to get angry and complitly own Dabura.

[dprez]

Kaioshin stated that chances are not good because Dabura is there. He knows that Dabura is stronger than him and initial SSJ2 Gohan in world tournament, otherway he wouldnt be so paranoid.

Do you have any evidence suggesting he does? Because he has plenty of reasons to be paranoid at this point.

Also, it seams like your just making stuff up. Full power perfect Cell is not stronger than "initial" Ssj2 Kid Gohan. Another example of somebody (Cell) not sensing power very well.

Also, I hope you read all of Hitiro's post, because he said it best. Kaioshin's statement there does not mean Dabura is stronger than Ssj2 Gohan at the tournament.

[Hitiro]

Kaioshin stated that chances are not good because Dabura is there. He knows that Dabura is stronger than him and initial SSJ2 Gohan in world tournament, otherway he wouldnt be so paranoid.
He saw Gohan SSJ2 powers on world tournament, but that is only transformation, not Gohan that relised much more power infront of Buus shell.

You guys do relize its Full power Perfect Cell > Initial SSJ2 Kid Gohan enraged in powers, but Gohan powers up so fast like Goku against Reccome that no one noticed Gohans true power aganist Full power Perfect Cell.

Gohan is stated to be under Dabura and later they fight almost equal. Goku stated that he didnt complitly lost, which means Kaioshin was right. Goku counted on Gohan to get angry and complitly own Dabura.

You seem to be thinking that I said Gohan wasn't doing bad against Dabura, it was a hard thought fight and they were both pretty even with Dabura slightly having the advantage. If Gohan was in his prime he would have easily overwhelmed Dabura as SSJ2 (Cell Games) Gohan's milestone of power gets mentioned a few times as if it is the power by which they do comparisons to. What I was getting at is the fact that Supreme Kai thinks ALL of the Saiyan's would lose to Dabura which is wrong, we know that Goku and Vegeta surpassed Gohan's original strength and the fact still remains that while Gohan was weaker in his 7 years of laziness Vegeta and Goku still include him in the list of people who can beat Dabura. Really the only reason why they wanted to interfere is because the battle was taking far too long. The Kaioshin thought that they would be no match for Dabura so we can say that he completely lacks any sort of judgement on powerlevels, Goku, Vegeta and Gohan all think they have a pretty good chance against him and Goku even compares him to the Cell from seven years ago so they do know how strong Dabura is.