The general American fanbase really annoys me.

[Fionordequester]

WorldMonsters, Mewzard has already said almost everything I felt about your statement...but there's one teensy thing I want to add.

Just because something is changed doesn't mean it's "watered down". "Watering something down" means something along the lines of "You are nothing but an insect, to be crushed at the whim of your master!", to "You are nothing, and I can kill you when I feel like it!", to make something dumber. For example, the Breath of Fire II english script had that in spades, in that while the translation was technically accurate, the dialogue was much more crude because English characters (from what I've been told) can't hold as much meaning as Japanese characters can, and yet, the translators typically don't get any more text boxes than the Japanese version of that game did. And so, the localizers have no choice but to either take liberties with the script, or make the dialogue much more crude and to-the-point.

That's not what happened with the FUNI dub of DBZ, at least, not usually. No, the dialogue wasn't "watered down" so much as it was just completely changed in many places. And that's where I feel like the misunderstanding is. Just because the dialogue was different doesn't mean we're stupid for liking it. I mean really, am I to be called stupid for liking it when Vegeta said "Is it slavery when you get what you want?" (during the Majin Vegeta stuff)? Or that I liked Super Perfect Cell's explanation for surviving better than what it was in the original version? Or that I liked Vegeta's "I found my own way" explanation for achieving Super Saiyan 1 better than him saying that he was pure evil (which can't possibly be true anyways)?

And yet, according to you, there's a good chance that I'm stupider than you because of that. And while I'm not angry, I can't help but feel that you either have not seen enough of the English dub to fairly judge it, and/or that your message was more offensive than you intended it. And that's ok, because that same thing happens to me all the time, and that I totally get where you're coming from in regards to that ! Just, keep in mind that dudes like me won't like what you said very much, okey doke?

[Mewzard]

WorldMonsters, Mewzard has already said almost everything I felt about your statement...but there's one teensy thing I want to add.

Just because something is changed doesn't mean it's "watered down". "Watering something down" means something along the lines of "You are nothing but an insect, to be crushed at the whim of your master!", to "You are nothing, and I can kill you when I feel like it!", to make something dumber. For example, the Breath of Fire II english script had that in spades, in that while the translation was technically accurate, the dialogue was much more crude because English characters (from what I've been told) can't hold as much meaning as Japanese characters can, and yet, the translators typically don't get any more text boxes than the Japanese version of that game did. And so, the localizers have no choice but to either take liberties with the script, or make the dialogue much more crude and to-the-point.

That's not what happened with the FUNI dub of DBZ, at least, not usually. No, the dialogue wasn't "watered down" so much as it was just completely changed in many places. And that's where I feel like the misunderstanding is. Just because the dialogue was different doesn't mean we're stupid for liking it. I mean really, am I to be called stupid for liking it when Vegeta said "Is it slavery when you get what you want?" (during the Majin Vegeta stuff)? Or that I liked Super Perfect Cell's explanation for surviving better than what it was in the original version? Or that I liked Vegeta's "I found my own way" explanation for achieving Super Saiyan 1 better than him saying that he was pure evil (which can't possibly be true anyways)?

And yet, according to you, there's a good chance that I'm stupider than you because of that. And while I'm not angry, I can't help but feel that you either have not seen enough of the English dub to fairly judge it, and/or that your message was more offensive than you intended it. And that's ok, because that same thing happens to me all the time, and that I totally get where you're coming from in regards to that ! Just, keep in mind that dudes like me won't like what you said very much, okey doke?

How to translate things is an issue. Do you go with liberties to make it sound better? Do you go really literal, to the point of being stilted? Or do you try to use translator's notes to fill in words that need context explained? It's rare to do that in official subs, and fansubs can do it to the point of stupidity at times:



This is actually real. TV-Nihon did that for their Mahou Sentai Magiranger subs...THAT'S weeaboo (to clarify from an earlier point).



For something like this, do you do the above? Do you directly translate the term as "Before breakfast"? Or do you use a similarly fitting American term and go for "Now that was easy as pie!"? I'd personally go for the more liberal translation as it makes the most sense for an English Sub release that you'd see on a DVD for a general audience. The direct translation just sounds wrong, and the translator's note method only is worth it for those who care to learn such things (which doesn't effect the general audience), and not only that, it makes slower readers have to pause to read the whole thing, when a simple and to the point translation works best in such a situation. Besides, for all the meaning of the term, it's not a necessary or recurring thing, so using a well known English idiom in place of a Japanese one that has the same basic intent works great (this isn't always possible, but for this example, it works).

On the matter of fanbases, just remember guys...we're all fans, no matter the country we live in, audio track we love, music choice we prefer, or whether we prefer manga or anime. We're all passionate fans; that's why we're here, right?

[Hellspawn28]

This is actually real. TV-Nihon did that for their Mahou Sentai Magiranger subs...THAT'S weeaboo (to clarify from an earlier point).

This example is even worst

I'll never understand why people get so up in arms about that. I've seen people get angry over Pokemon being called a kids' show, for fuck's sake.

That's stupid. I wish people would get over the fact that DBZ is a show for kids. People forget that Japan has different take on what is acceptable in children's/family entertainment. The Ultraman shows from the 70's had spraying blood and monsters getting rip into half had but they were made for kids. I also think it's just as bad when people will make fun of you for still liking DBZ, but will like stuff like MLP.

[matt0044]

^Yeah, that's the problem with FANsubs that's gone largely overlooked (because fans nowadays have accepted this as the norm since "Japanese is a cool language"). Why not just put "Back to normal, back to disaster" instead of explaining a phrase we didn't want to learn about because, guess what, we don't watch Kamen Rider or Super Sentai to learn Japanese.

Here's part one of a documentary that explains what I mean: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUYlqLlbix0

[JulieYBM]

Actually, I'd call that Motosa/Moto Saiyaka example a good example of what to do right. It's a pun, learn yourself something new. I would certainly expect non-English/American puns to receive similar treatment when released in other countries. That aforementioned insult example is clearly something said translation group has stepped away from and to good measure.

[matt0044]

Actually, I'd call that Motosa/Moto Saiyaka example a good example of what to do right. It's a pun, learn yourself something new. I would certainly expect non-English/American puns to receive similar treatment when released in other countries. That aforementioned insult example is clearly something said translation group has stepped away from and to good measure.

Why not change it? Even if it's not punny, "Back to normal, back to disaster" should be good enough.

Everyone's reaction to my "blasphemy":

[elyas11]

I wouldn't PER SE call them 'american fans' it's just all non-diehard fans and uninformed fans.

Uninformed fans will listen to you and say "AH I UNDERSTAND NAO" when you explain something, where as the idiots are like "NO GOLDEN SSJ4 IS GOD GOKU, U SUK!" and yeah those are so incredibly annoying.

[Eire]

Actually, I'd call that Motosa/Moto Saiyaka example a good example of what to do right. It's a pun, learn yourself something new. I would certainly expect non-English/American puns to receive similar treatment when released in other countries. That aforementioned insult example is clearly something said translation group has stepped away from and to good measure.

Had translators following that rule, Lem's Pratchett's and Pixar's pieces would have been indigestible macaronic crap. Translating word games and puns is a art that a few mastered and a reason we haven't switched to google translator.

[Adamant]

Actually, I'd call that Motosa/Moto Saiyaka example a good example of what to do right. It's a pun, learn yourself something new. I would certainly expect non-English/American puns to receive similar treatment when released in other countries. That aforementioned insult example is clearly something said translation group has stepped away from and to good measure.

Why not change it? Even if it's not punny, "Back to normal, back to disaster" should be good enough.

That aforementioned insult example is clearly something said translation group has stepped away from and to good measure.

If anything they're worse than ever.

[DonZ]

General American Fanbase "Goku sound like a girl"
*sigh* *facepalm* they don't understand the nature of Goku's character. he suppose to be funny and having that innocent voice of Masako's. most of them are annoying, but not all of them.
anyway, Kanzenshuu's fanbase are the best

[Rocketman]

"JP Goku sounds like a girl" is an objectively correct statement.

[Zephyr]

"JP Goku sounds like a girl" is an objectively correct statement.

Kind of. High pitched doesn't automatically =/= female. However, even if we grant that Goku does sound like a girl, the idea that such a thing is bad or negative, is not objectively correct.

And there is a natural progression from JP Kid Goku to JP Adult Goku, where the voice slightly deepens. It's immediately noticeable going from the Piccolo Daimao arc to the 23rd TB arc.

[Attitudefan]

"JP Goku sounds like a girl" is an objectively correct statement.

Kind of. High pitched doesn't automatically =/= female. However, even if we grant that Goku does sound like a girl, the idea that such a thing is bad or negative, is not objectively correct.

And there is a natural progression from JP Kid Goku to JP Adult Goku, where the voice slightly deepens. It's immediately noticeable going from the Piccolo Daimao arc to the 23rd TB arc.

It is actually quite deeper.

[matt0044]

I can still see how Goku, the one of the strongest guy in the god damn universe, getting a high pitched voice would be jarring to the uninitiated. Nozawa captures his character but not so much his age. While Schemmal before Kai captured the age but not the character.

[Ringworm128]

IMO he got Goku down before Kai. http://youtu.be/_yXGnqEo9dY?t=5m26s The way he says "You know about me?" just seems so Gokuish.

[Fionordequester]

How to translate things is an issue. Do you go with liberties to make it sound better? Do you go really literal, to the point of being stilted? Or do you try to use translator's notes to fill in words that need context explained? It's rare to do that in official subs, and fansubs can do it to the point of stupidity at times:



This is actually real. TV-Nihon did that for their Mahou Sentai Magiranger subs...THAT'S weeaboo (to clarify from an earlier point).



For something like this, do you do the above? Do you directly translate the term as "Before breakfast"? Or do you use a similarly fitting American term and go for "Now that was easy as pie!"? I'd personally go for the more liberal translation as it makes the most sense for an English Sub release that you'd see on a DVD for a general audience. The direct translation just sounds wrong, and the translator's note method only is worth it for those who care to learn such things (which doesn't effect the general audience), and not only that, it makes slower readers have to pause to read the whole thing, when a simple and to the point translation works best in such a situation. Besides, for all the meaning of the term, it's not a necessary or recurring thing, so using a well known English idiom in place of a Japanese one that has the same basic intent works great (this isn't always possible, but for this example, it works).

You know, while it was poorly implemented here, I actually kind of like the idea of learning new Japanese words while watching. If fansubbers would stream their videos with normal subtitles, but include some footnotes on the page itself about different localizations they made, I would actually really like that. Then again, I'm actually planning on learning the Japanese language as soon as I can, so maybe that's just me.

[Ringworm128]

Here's a good documentary on the FS thing. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUYlqLlbix0 While I don't agree with stuff like having the character refer to themselves as "I" in the subtitles when they clearly referred to themselves by their name or things like changing the dialogue so it's more "snappy". But I do agree that subtitles should be there so a person who can't speak Japanese can enjoy the show and not as some kind of mini Japanese lesson where you constantly have to dart your eyes up and down the screen.

[matt0044]

You know, while it was poorly implemented here, I actually kind of like the idea of learning new Japanese words while watching. If fansubbers would stream their videos with normal subtitles, but include some footnotes on the page itself about different localizations they made, I would actually really like that. Then again, I'm actually planning on learning the Japanese language as soon as I can, so maybe that's just me.

Yeah, but not everyone's trying to learn Japanese nor is this an effective way to learn it. Though doing localizations and explaining like after the episode would be better.

While I don't agree with stuff like having the character refer to themselves as "I" in the subtitles when they clearly referred to themselves by their name or things like changing the dialogue so it's more "snappy".

1. I prefer "I" since referring yourself in the third person isn't very commonplace with non-Japanese viewers and sounds more "natural." Just saying.

2. I like the snappy dialogue (which can be much more memorable than otherwise) so long as it conveys what the scene's context loud and clear and is also not out-of-character.

[MarCas92]

Once an American fan says Goku sounds like a girl or anything of that sort, their opinions no longer matter to me. I don't think you can have an intelligent conversation about anime or any form of foreign entertainment with that person at any point.

[matt0044]

Once an American fan says Goku sounds like a girl or anything of that sort, their opinions no longer matter to me. I don't think you can have an intelligent conversation about anime or any form of foreign entertainment with that person at any point.

Yeah, I get how the uninitiated would be put off by a strong man sounding awfully young for his age but dismissing the whole JPN version is pretty close-minded