The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

[DBZ Macky]

I want to get AS MANY opinions as possible on this
Who are the strongest characters in the Anime (specifically Kai but Z can work too) can these Dragon Ball Super ANIME characters (Future Trunks arc ANIME) defeat in terms of raw power (Except their own counterparts):

1. Goku (in Base/SSJ/SSJ2/SSJ3/SJBG if applicable/SSJG/SSJB)
2. Vegeta (Base/SSJ/SSJ2/SSJ3/SJBG if applicable/SSJB)
3. Gohan (Base/SSJ/hypothetical SSJ2/Mystic if applicable)
4. Gotenks (Base/SSJ/SSJ3)
5. Trunks (Base/SSJ)
6. Goten (Base/SSJ)
7. Future Trunks (Base/SSJ/SSJ2)
8. Piccolo
9. Boo
10. Freeza (1st Form/Final Form)
11. Frost (Base/Assault/True Form)
12. Cabba (Base/SSJ)
13. Botamo

[Khin]

Very well.

1. Goku (in Base/SSJ/SSJ2/SSJ3/SJBG if applicable/SSJG/SSJB)
2. Vegeta (Base/SSJ/SSJ2/SSJ3/SJBG if applicable/SSJB)

• Regular form: Goku was never implied to have absorbed the Super Saiyan God power in the manga, so his non-God forms is not as strong as they are in the movies. But his training with Whis and in the Room of Spirit and Time still made him significantly stronger than before, i'd say Base Goku can beat first appearance Future Trunks.
• Super Saiyan: I reckon current SSj Goku or Vegeta would be strong enough to beat Super Saiyan 2 Majin Vegeta.
• Super Saiyan 2: Goku and Vegeta is about as strong as Boo, but regeneration and stamina will likely give the latter the odds of winning. So i'm gonna say Grey Boo.
• Super Saiyan 3: Base Gotenks (Post RoSaT)
• Super Saiyan Blue: I would say Golden Freeza, i think Goku and Vegeta became equal to him after their training in the RoSaT.

3. Gohan (Base/SSJ/hypothetical SSJ2/Mystic if applicable)

We don't see Gohan in the Tournament and he didn't made any appearance in the Trunks Arc yet so there's no way to tell how strong he is currently.

4. Gotenks (Base/SSJ/SSJ3)

• Regular form: I'm one of those people that believe that Base Gotenks surpassed his former Super Saiyan self after he trained in the RoSaT. There is nothing that implies that Goten and Trunks became weaker than they were in the Boo Arc. I supposed he could beat Super Saiyan 3 Goku (Boo Arc) with ease.
• Super Saiyan: If he fights smart and spam the Kamikazee Ghosts, he have a good chance of beating Evil Boo.
• Super Saiyan 3: I suppose Ultimate Gohan, the gap between the two isn't that big, so Gotenks has a good chance of winning if he spams his Kamikazee Ghosts.

5. Trunks (Base/SSJ)
6. Goten (Base/SSJ)

• Regular form: I'd say they can punch 50% Final Form Freeza's head with a single blow.
• Super Saiyan: With skill not being a factor, the kids can stalemate Full Power Super Saiyan Kid Gohan in the Cell Games individually. They can beat defeat Perfect Cell (Vs. Goku) without much trouble.

7. Future Trunks (Base/SSJ/SSJ2)

• Regular form: Base Goku easily blocking Trunks' punch implies the former is superior. I subscribe to the "Max/Mutated Super Saiyan 2" theory to explain why SSj2 Trunks is equal to SSj3 Goku. I would say current Base Trunks is stronger than SSj Goku (Namek) in raw power.
• Super Saiyan: I peg Trunks has a good chance of beating his Super Saiyan 2 Majin powered father.
  
• Super Saiyan 2: I assume this is the normal Super Saiyan 2 Trunks and not the mutated one. I would say he can beat Super Saiyan 3 Goku (Boo Arc). In his mutated form he can beat Base Gotenks (Post RoSaT) with little to no difficulty.

8. Piccolo

• Picc wasn't noted of any huge gains in the Tournament, so he is at best as strong as the Perfect Cell that fought Goku. As a result, he can beat Full Power Super Saiyan Goku in the Cell Games.

9. Boo

• Grey Boo i think.

10. Freeza (1st Form/Final Form)

The manga entirely skipped the whole Revival of F Arc. So we have no idea how strong 1st and 4th Form Freeza is.

11. Frost (Base/Assault/True Form)

• First Form: To keep things clean. I have 1st Form Frost as strong as Final Form Freeza on Namek. So he can beat him with that poison of his.
• Assault Form: I would say Mecha Freeza.
• Final Form: I reckon Final Form Frost would be about equal to Super Saiyan 2 Kid Gohan and can beat him with his poison.

12. Cabba (Base/SSJ)

• Regular form: Cabba was implied to be just slightly weaker than Vegeta. So i guess he can beat the likes of Super Saiyan Goku on Namek in his regular form.
• Super Saiyan: If raw power is all we're talking about. Cabba can defeat Super Saiyan 2 Kid Gohan with mid-high difficulty.

13. Botamo

All we know about Botamo is that he's way weaker than Base Goku. I guess at the very least i'd say he can beat Pui-Pui.

[DBZ Macky]

You need to more specific, because there is a huge difference between the strength of the characters in the manga and anime of Super.

Fixed. Thank you for pointing that out. I meant DBZ anime VS DBS anime characters.

[Khin]

Fixed. Thank you for pointing that out. I meant DBZ anime VS DBS anime characters.

Both have an incredibly messy and confusing power scaling, so i'm gonna pass on this one sorry. I still haven't conclude where to put certain characters at. I would give my opinion if its DBZ era manga VS. DBS manga though.

[DBZ Macky]

Fixed. Thank you for pointing that out. I meant DBZ anime VS DBS anime characters.

Both have an incredibly messy and confusing power scaling, so i'm gonna pass on this one sorry. I still haven't conclude where to put certain characters at. I would give my opinion if its DBZ era manga VS. DBS manga though.

Okay, I'd want to hear your opinion on the manga then

[Khin]

Okay, I'd want to hear your opinion on the manga then

I messed up a little so you need to see it above. I can't edit it now because of the 2 hour limit so i wasn't able to make the quotes tiny and fix some mistakes, damn.

[DBZ Macky]

Okay, I'd want to hear your opinion on the manga then

I messed up a little so you need to see it above. I can't edit it now because of the 2 hour limit so i wasn't able to make the quotes tiny and fix some mistakes, damn.

Not a problem, I checked it out. I'd agree with most of it but I generally follow Kaboom's list which doesn't follow Base Gotenks (Post) >= SSJ Gotenks (Pre). Besides, I'd say if Gohan can get weaker then why not Gotenks. Also, If slight increases in Goten and Trunks can increase Gotenks's power massively then wouldn't slight decreases in Goten and Trunks decrease Gotenks's power massively
By my estimates, I'd say Current Gotenks =< Gotenks (Pre RoSaT).
I completely agree with you on the mutated SSJ2 thing since it kind of explains Rageta too.
Also, maybe this shouldn't belong in this thread but how much would you say SSJG and SSJGSSJ increase Goku's power?

[apex_pretador]

I want to get AS MANY opinions as possible on this
Who are the strongest characters in the Anime (specifically Kai but Z can work too) can these Dragon Ball Super ANIME characters (Future Trunks arc ANIME) defeat in terms of raw power (Except their own counterparts):

1. Goku (in Base/SSJ/SSJ2/SSJ3/SJBG if applicable/SSJG/SSJB)
2. Vegeta (Base/SSJ/SSJ2/SSJ3/SJBG if applicable/SSJB)

Base - Copy vegeta curbstomped SS3 gotenks. I can see them beating buuhan (full power when vegetto transformed, NOT when he released his power by anger against SS vegetto)
SS/SS2/SS3/SSB - can beat all of DBZ anime combined

3. Gohan (Base/SSJ/hypothetical SSJ2/Mystic if applicable)

Mystic is not a form.
Base - Can possibly beat perfect cell. If we take gohan as from pre U6 arc when he was training with piccolo, I bet he could beat his own CG SS2 self.
SS - Can beat Mystic gohan from anime (or SS3 goku if you believe he's stronger)
SS2 - N/A

4. Gotenks (Base/SSJ/SSJ3)

Base - Perfect cell
SS - Fat buu pre
SS3 - Super buu, but this time it will be closer

5. Trunks (Base/SSJ)
6. Goten (Base/SSJ)

Their own selves from 25th TB

7. Future Trunks (Base/SSJ/SSJ2)

Base - namek freeza
SS - Kid buu
SS2 - Buuhan enraged

8. Piccolo

Majin vegeta

9. Boo

10. Freeza (1st Form/Final Form)

1st form - He beats SS gotenks pre
Final Form - He beats SS3 goku

11. Frost (Base/Assault/True Form)

1st - majin vegeta
2nd - Buutenks, barely
Final - buuhan

12. Cabba (Base/SSJ)

Base - Super buu
SS - buuhan

13. Botamo

[/quote]dont know if vegetto can even beat him

[Khin]

Not a problem, I checked it out. I'd agree with most of it but I generally follow Kaboom's list which doesn't follow Base Gotenks (Post) >= SSJ Gotenks (Pre).

I'm all good with it, since the whole thing is arguable anyway.

Besides, I'd say if Gohan can get weaker then why not Gotenks. Also, If slight increases in Goten and Trunks can increase Gotenks's power massively then wouldn't slight decreases in Goten and Trunks decrease Gotenks's power massively
By my estimates, I'd say Current Gotenks =< Gotenks (Pre RoSaT).

Although i don't have much to base this, i personally don't think Trunks and Goten stopped training, just that they don't train as much as their dads. Goten and Trunks probably still fight each other as their playtime.

I completely agree with you on the mutated SSJ2 thing since it kind of explains Rageta too.
Also, maybe this shouldn't belong in this thread but how much would you say SSJG and SSJGSSJ increase Goku's power?

I don't know, i don't have Battle Power list these days except for early DBZ and the Champa Arc barring the God tiers.

[Anime Kitten]

Which battle is this from?

Goku VS General Rilldo.

[kinisking]

Vegeta vs Piccolo if their power levels are the same?
I'd say Piccolo. He has regeneration, stretchy limbs and arguably better strategy.

[Hugo Boss]

I'd say 10% of SSGSS is still enough to overpower a SSJ3. Vegeta stomps.

SSB Vegeta finger flicks & disintegrates trunks.

I wasn't exactly expecting an essay, but I would apreciate if you put a little more effort in these posts. Specially, apex_pretador.

What make me think there could be a match between Trunks and this version of Vegeta is that both were implied to be weaker than Super Saiyan God.

As we saw in the recent chapters Trunks is comparable to SS3 Goku, and curiously the regular SS Goku was holding his own against Hit, while Vegeta accomplished pratically nothing. Though, Hit was pretty much convinced Goku still needed Blue's power to have a chance, so he probably considered Vegeta as the strongest until Goku showed his red-haired form.

Furthermore, SS3 would definetely shrink the gap between Goku and the version of Hit which defeated Vegeta, but perhaps it wasn't quite enough to surpass him and Goku needed SSG to be a step ahead. So, at this point there is still the possibilty that SS3 Goku might be as strong as that Hit or even the exausted Vegeta, since Time-Skip would still work on them as long as they are equal or less powerful than Hit.

In resume, I would say we have really no evidence that Vegeta could or couldn't overpower current Trunks after overusing his Blue power.

[apex_pretador]

I wasn't exactly expecting an essay, but I would apreciate if you put a little more effort in these posts. Specially, apex_pretador.

What make me think there could be a match between Trunks and this version of Vegeta is that both were implied to be weaker than Super Saiyan God.

As we saw in the recent chapters Trunks is comparable to SS3 Goku, and curiously the regular SS Goku was holding his own against Hit, while Vegeta accomplished pratically nothing. Though, Hit was pretty much convinced Goku still needed Blue's power to have a chance, so he probably considered Vegeta as the strongest until Goku showed his red-haired form.

Furthermore, SS3 would definetely shrink the gap between Goku and the version of Hit which defeated Vegeta, but perhaps it wasn't quite enough to surpass him and Goku needed SSG to be a step ahead. So, at this point there is still the possibilty that SS3 Goku might be as strong as that Hit or even the exausted Vegeta, since Time-Skip would still work on them as long as they are equal or less powerful than Hit.

In resume, I would say we have really no evidence that Vegeta could or couldn't overpower current Trunks after overusing his Blue power.

Ok, I generally try to put my answers in a quick way, but here is the reason:

- SSB Vegeta was always at 10% power. However, Beerus couldn't tell that he was weaker than SSG Goku, that means SSB 10% vegeta >> SSG goku (when he fought beerus).

- Also, if manga beerus was present in manga GF vs SSB battle, then SSB 10% vegeta >= SSB (GF arc)

- SSG Goku being stronger than SSB vegeta was shocking for beerus. So he couldn't tell the difference himself. SSG Goku ~ SSB 10% vegeta >> SSG from BoG

- There is no reason to believe that FT was anywhere near Super vegetto, let alone SSG from BoG. If we consider anime (where goku SS3 >> manga SS3), then vegeta absolutely laughs off at the idea of using SS3 in comparison to SSB.

- Beerus would have had hsi eyes sticking out of his body if trunks was SSG level strong. I mean this is a planet where he could touch and KO people with less than 1% of his strrength, and suddenly someone who can fight him appears and he barely reacts? Just impressed?

So, yeah i still stand by my point that 10% vegeta finger flicks trunks.

[apex_pretador]

Vegeta vs Piccolo if their power levels are the same?
I'd say Piccolo. He has regeneration, stretchy limbs and arguably better strategy.

Piccolo. Versatility, skill & regen takes it for the win.

[Analytic]

SS3 gotenks wins by default as there is no SS2 in GT.

Are you sure about that?[spoiler][/spoiler]

Which battle is this from?

Goku vs. General Rild.

[DBZ Macky]

Vegeta vs Piccolo if their power levels are the same?
I'd say Piccolo. He has regeneration, stretchy limbs and arguably better strategy.

Piccolo. Versatility, skill & regen takes it for the win.

I might be bias but Vegeta could take this.
Both have fought dirty at a point in the story but I'd still say he has this just like how he finished Zarbon. It would be a close fight though. Also, I'm assuming this is Base Vegeta VS Piccolo because SSJ strain might make it a lot tougher for Vegeta. We should probably account for Vegeta's durability in the Saiyan Saga. Piccolo got beaten by a headbutt by someone in the same ballpark while Vegeta took a Kaioken x4 Kamehameha and tanked the Genkidama. Piccolo's regeneration is pretty elementary stuff now that we have Majin Buu. Vegeta is the better fighter as stated by Piccolo himself in the Jinzo-ningen arc but he'd DEFINITELY lose if he underestimates Piccolo (Which has quite a high probability judging off past performance).

[kinisking]

Vegeta vs Piccolo if their power levels are the same?
I'd say Piccolo. He has regeneration, stretchy limbs and arguably better strategy.

Piccolo. Versatility, skill & regen takes it for the win.

I might be bias but Vegeta could take this.
Both have fought dirty at a point in the story but I'd still say he has this just like how he finished Zarbon. It would be a close fight though. Also, I'm assuming this is Base Vegeta VS Piccolo because SSJ strain might make it a lot tougher for Vegeta. We should probably account for Vegeta's durability in the Saiyan Saga. Piccolo got beaten by a headbutt by someone in the same ballpark while Vegeta took a Kaioken x4 Kamehameha and tanked the Genkidama. Piccolo's regeneration is pretty elementary stuff now that we have Majin Buu. Vegeta is the better fighter as stated by Piccolo himself in the Jinzo-ningen arc but he'd DEFINITELY lose if he underestimates Piccolo (Which has quite a high probability judging off past performance).

Wait, when was the exact moment Piccolo says that? Not that I don't believe you, I just don't remember.

[DBZ Macky]

Piccolo. Versatility, skill & regen takes it for the win.

I might be bias but Vegeta could take this.
Both have fought dirty at a point in the story but I'd still say he has this just like how he finished Zarbon. It would be a close fight though. Also, I'm assuming this is Base Vegeta VS Piccolo because SSJ strain might make it a lot tougher for Vegeta. We should probably account for Vegeta's durability in the Saiyan Saga. Piccolo got beaten by a headbutt by someone in the same ballpark while Vegeta took a Kaioken x4 Kamehameha and tanked the Genkidama. Piccolo's regeneration is pretty elementary stuff now that we have Majin Buu. Vegeta is the better fighter as stated by Piccolo himself in the Jinzo-ningen arc but he'd DEFINITELY lose if he underestimates Piccolo (Which has quite a high probability judging off past performance).

Wait, when was the exact moment Piccolo says that? Not that I don't believe you, I just don't remember.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3V5VaKLA3fQ
Could only find dub atm.

Not exactly "Better fighter" but he was an elite who was far more experienced in combat than anyone else.

[TobyS]

I might be bias but Vegeta could take this.
Both have fought dirty at a point in the story but I'd still say he has this just like how he finished Zarbon. It would be a close fight though. Also, I'm assuming this is Base Vegeta VS Piccolo because SSJ strain might make it a lot tougher for Vegeta. We should probably account for Vegeta's durability in the Saiyan Saga. Piccolo got beaten by a headbutt by someone in the same ballpark while Vegeta took a Kaioken x4 Kamehameha and tanked the Genkidama. Piccolo's regeneration is pretty elementary stuff now that we have Majin Buu. Vegeta is the better fighter as stated by Piccolo himself in the Jinzo-ningen arc but he'd DEFINITELY lose if he underestimates Piccolo (Which has quite a high probability judging off past performance).

Wait, when was the exact moment Piccolo says that? Not that I don't believe you, I just don't remember.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3V5VaKLA3fQ
Could only find dub atm.

Not exactly "Better fighter" but he was an elite who was far more experienced in combat than anyone else.

That wanks Vegeta WAAAAY more than the manga does.

In VIZ at least he just says that he bluffed #20 and that doing so was a genius move. Not implying he couldn't have done the same.
Also this is right after he gets up off the floor after also tricking/bluffing out the same androids.

[apex_pretador]

Vegeta vs Piccolo if their power levels are the same?
I'd say Piccolo. He has regeneration, stretchy limbs and arguably better strategy.

Piccolo. Versatility, skill & regen takes it for the win.

I might be bias but Vegeta could take this.
Both have fought dirty at a point in the story but I'd still say he has this just like how he finished Zarbon. It would be a close fight though. Also, I'm assuming this is Base Vegeta VS Piccolo because SSJ strain might make it a lot tougher for Vegeta. We should probably account for Vegeta's durability in the Saiyan Saga. Piccolo got beaten by a headbutt by someone in the same ballpark while Vegeta took a Kaioken x4 Kamehameha and tanked the Genkidama. Piccolo's regeneration is pretty elementary stuff now that we have Majin Buu. Vegeta is the better fighter as stated by Piccolo himself in the Jinzo-ningen arc but he'd DEFINITELY lose if he underestimates Piccolo (Which has quite a high probability judging off past performance).

Infact the only thing piccolo says is that vegeta is a genius as he bluffed his way out of the fight against dr gero.

Piccolo is definitely the better fighter if we look at their fights against goku.
- Piccolo, 3 year old, goes toe to toe with goku and nearly beats him. It is worth noting that piccolo was weaker than goku in this fight. Now, this is without adding the incredible experience from Nail & Kami.
- Vegeta, MUCH , MUCH stronger than goku, retorts to transform to beat him.
- Vegeta, in buu arc, fights a more skilled goku and stalemates him at equal stats.

Vegeta taking the genkidama is impressive but remmber that it was only at half of its power than it was initially, and even intially it was not that strong.

Vegeta took x4 Kamehameha & barely survived by going out of the way. x3 was his own equal, and goku was getting weaker and weaker.

Piccolo took a Super kamehameha to the face and wasn't even damaged. It was much stronger than his blast. Goku blasted it out for the kill.