The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

[LightBing]

Vegeta vs Piccolo if their power levels are the same?
I'd say Piccolo. He has regeneration, stretchy limbs and arguably better strategy.

60%/40% - Piccolo has a better and varied arsenal, while Vegeta is more resilient than Piccolo. Regeneration drains energy, by a decent amount. It's only useful to restore limbs which would obviously provide an handicap.
My probability above is if Vegeta is clear headed. Enraged Vegeta is prone to make mistakes and waste energy in excessive and many times redundant tactics.
This really depends on all the information each one has of the other. If Piccolo can mess with Vegeta's head. It's about the little things. A single mistake is probably all it would take to decide such a match up.

[DBZ Macky]

Piccolo. Versatility, skill & regen takes it for the win.

I might be bias but Vegeta could take this.
Both have fought dirty at a point in the story but I'd still say he has this just like how he finished Zarbon. It would be a close fight though. Also, I'm assuming this is Base Vegeta VS Piccolo because SSJ strain might make it a lot tougher for Vegeta. We should probably account for Vegeta's durability in the Saiyan Saga. Piccolo got beaten by a headbutt by someone in the same ballpark while Vegeta took a Kaioken x4 Kamehameha and tanked the Genkidama. Piccolo's regeneration is pretty elementary stuff now that we have Majin Buu. Vegeta is the better fighter as stated by Piccolo himself in the Jinzo-ningen arc but he'd DEFINITELY lose if he underestimates Piccolo (Which has quite a high probability judging off past performance).

Infact the only thing piccolo says is that vegeta is a genius as he bluffed his way out of the fight against dr gero.

Piccolo is definitely the better fighter if we look at their fights against goku.
- Piccolo, 3 year old, goes toe to toe with goku and nearly beats him. It is worth noting that piccolo was weaker than goku in this fight. Now, this is without adding the incredible experience from Nail & Kami.
- Vegeta, MUCH , MUCH stronger than goku, retorts to transform to beat him.
- Vegeta, in buu arc, fights a more skilled goku and stalemates him at equal stats.

Vegeta taking the genkidama is impressive but remmber that it was only at half of its power than it was initially, and even intially it was not that strong.

Vegeta took x4 Kamehameha & barely survived by going out of the way. x3 was his own equal, and goku was getting weaker and weaker.

Piccolo took a Super kamehameha to the face and wasn't even damaged. It was much stronger than his blast. Goku blasted it out for the kill.

I agree with everything you said. Some more points to add to your argument:
Piccolo is more skilled with Ki and knows Mazoku clan techniques. His Makankosappo is one of the deadliest attacks in the series.
You can say Piccolo is more experienced than Vegeta since the son of Katatz and Piccolo Daimao have been on earth since hundreds of years while Vegeta is less than half a century old.

But I still can't brush off this feeling that Vegeta might still have this... maybe it's just Toei logic that has been embedded into me from watching the "Goku & Vegeta show" for too long

[DanielSSJ]

Vegeta vs Piccolo if their power levels are the same?
I'd say Piccolo. He has regeneration, stretchy limbs and arguably better strategy.

Piccolo has a very, VERY slight advantage. Piccolo's regeneration isn't going to nearly as useful as you'd think, since it's mainly used for regrowing limbs and that it eats up a lot of stamina. Though his stretchy arms will be very useful.

Both characters are extremely skilled, excellent at strategy, and are not afraid to fight dirty. When Vegeta's arrogance isn't clouding his judgement and he has a clear idea of what he's up against, he can be scarily devious, and Piccolo is probably the smartest of the main fighting characters and was called the Tactician of U7 in Dragon Ball Super, so there isn't a clear advantage here either.

Piccolo's techniques are far more varied than Vegeta's, whose repertoire is mainly focused on blowing stuff up.

On the other hand, Vegeta is probably a bit more resilient than Piccolo is, and can take more of a beating.

Final point, I think Vegeta might not take Piccolo quite as seriously has he should. Even at equal powers, Vegeta would likely still labor under the "Saiyans are superior" mindset, and might underestimate Piccolo just a smidge. Also, Vegeta has... emotional issues that Piccolo doesn't. It would be entirely possible for Vegeta to get a little frustrated that a Namekian would pose such a challenge to him, and for Piccolo to take advantage of that. I agree with LightBing in that really depends on who makes the first mistake. Vegeta is just a bit more likely to do so than Piccolo is.

[kinisking]

Gotenks vs Gohan same power levels!

I think it's Gohan's win here. Gotenks is way too cocky and playful plus the two boys seem incredibly inexperienced. I can't remember if "yo son goku!" is canon but Gohan had to mentor them while they were struggling. Gotenks has his magic but Gohan's been shown to be able to break out of buutenks galactic donut even though he was weaker. He is also familiar with the ghost kamikaze attack now so he wouldn't fall for it again. Gohan also was hitting vital points in ROF and I can't see Goten and Trunks doing that.

[Anime Kitten]

Gotenks vs Gohan same power levels!

Gohan for sure. He has the better intellect (Goten doesn't contribute here at all for some reason, it seems Trunks is in complete control), better skill (experience), and I'd say better techniques.

[kinisking]

Gotenks vs Gohan same power levels!

Gohan for sure. He has the better intellect (Goten doesn't contribute here at all for some reason, it seems Trunks is in complete control), better skill (experience), and I'd say better techniques.

I actually think Gotenks has the overall better techniques because of the variety. Gohan has kamehameha and masenko and that's about it. Speaking of Masenko, it's dissapointing that Kamehameha basically replaced it. It should've been his iconic attack.

[apex_pretador]

I might be bias but Vegeta could take this.
Both have fought dirty at a point in the story but I'd still say he has this just like how he finished Zarbon. It would be a close fight though. Also, I'm assuming this is Base Vegeta VS Piccolo because SSJ strain might make it a lot tougher for Vegeta. We should probably account for Vegeta's durability in the Saiyan Saga. Piccolo got beaten by a headbutt by someone in the same ballpark while Vegeta took a Kaioken x4 Kamehameha and tanked the Genkidama. Piccolo's regeneration is pretty elementary stuff now that we have Majin Buu. Vegeta is the better fighter as stated by Piccolo himself in the Jinzo-ningen arc but he'd DEFINITELY lose if he underestimates Piccolo (Which has quite a high probability judging off past performance).

Infact the only thing piccolo says is that vegeta is a genius as he bluffed his way out of the fight against dr gero.

Piccolo is definitely the better fighter if we look at their fights against goku.
- Piccolo, 3 year old, goes toe to toe with goku and nearly beats him. It is worth noting that piccolo was weaker than goku in this fight. Now, this is without adding the incredible experience from Nail & Kami.
- Vegeta, MUCH , MUCH stronger than goku, retorts to transform to beat him.
- Vegeta, in buu arc, fights a more skilled goku and stalemates him at equal stats.

Vegeta taking the genkidama is impressive but remmber that it was only at half of its power than it was initially, and even intially it was not that strong.

Vegeta took x4 Kamehameha & barely survived by going out of the way. x3 was his own equal, and goku was getting weaker and weaker.

Piccolo took a Super kamehameha to the face and wasn't even damaged. It was much stronger than his blast. Goku blasted it out for the kill.

I agree with everything you said. Some more points to add to your argument:
Piccolo is more skilled with Ki and knows Mazoku clan techniques. His Makankosappo is one of the deadliest attacks in the series.
You can say Piccolo is more experienced than Vegeta since the son of Katatz and Piccolo Daimao have been on earth since hundreds of years while Vegeta is less than half a century old.

But I still can't brush off this feeling that Vegeta might still have this... maybe it's just Toei logic that has been embedded into me from watching the "Goku & Vegeta show" for too long

I think vegeta is tougher and harder to put down, and has better armor. You can use that logic.

[kinisking]

Infact the only thing piccolo says is that vegeta is a genius as he bluffed his way out of the fight against dr gero.

Piccolo is definitely the better fighter if we look at their fights against goku.
- Piccolo, 3 year old, goes toe to toe with goku and nearly beats him. It is worth noting that piccolo was weaker than goku in this fight. Now, this is without adding the incredible experience from Nail & Kami.
- Vegeta, MUCH , MUCH stronger than goku, retorts to transform to beat him.
- Vegeta, in buu arc, fights a more skilled goku and stalemates him at equal stats.

Vegeta taking the genkidama is impressive but remmber that it was only at half of its power than it was initially, and even intially it was not that strong.

Vegeta took x4 Kamehameha & barely survived by going out of the way. x3 was his own equal, and goku was getting weaker and weaker.

Piccolo took a Super kamehameha to the face and wasn't even damaged. It was much stronger than his blast. Goku blasted it out for the kill.

I agree with everything you said. Some more points to add to your argument:
Piccolo is more skilled with Ki and knows Mazoku clan techniques. His Makankosappo is one of the deadliest attacks in the series.
You can say Piccolo is more experienced than Vegeta since the son of Katatz and Piccolo Daimao have been on earth since hundreds of years while Vegeta is less than half a century old.

But I still can't brush off this feeling that Vegeta might still have this... maybe it's just Toei logic that has been embedded into me from watching the "Goku & Vegeta show" for too long

I think vegeta is tougher and harder to put down, and has better armor. You can use that logic.

At they level they are at, I don't think armor matters anymore

[DanielSSJ]

Gotenks vs Gohan same power levels!

I think it's Gohan's win here. Gotenks is way too cocky and playful plus the two boys seem incredibly inexperienced. I can't remember if "yo son goku!" is canon but Gohan had to mentor them while they were struggling. Gotenks has his magic but Gohan's been shown to be able to break out of buutenks galactic donut even though he was weaker. He is also familiar with the ghost kamikaze attack now so he wouldn't fall for it again. Gohan also was hitting vital points in ROF and I can't see Goten and Trunks doing that.

Probably Gohan. Gotenks is usually too distracted trying to look cool to be an effective fighter, and while he has a wide variety of techniques, Gohan has shown that he can break out of the Galactic Donut, and the Ghost Kamikaze Attack, while ridiculously powerful, can easily be neutralized by prematurely detonating them with basic Ki blasts. As Vegetto says "Kids came up with that idea." Even as rusty as Gohan is, he has more than enough experience fighting seriously to be take advantage of Gotenks' shortcomings.

[Hellspawn28]

Base Goku Black vs. Golden Freeza

No time line for Goku Black
No SSjR for now

Who wins?

[Berserker1921]

Base Goku Black vs. Golden Freeza

No time line for Goku Black
No SSjR for now

Who wins?

He was tanking blows from a 3+ years Vegeta who has fought Hit and frieza before hand. The idea is that supposedly Vegeta and Goku surpassed Frieza full powered gold form during the U6 competition.

Black has jumped astronomically from ssj2+ level to be evenly matched with Ssj blue Vegeta. Who undoubtedly became stronger since the tournament. I think Vegeta and Goku as if now are at least near ssj blue kaioken Goku x 2 or 5's level at this point. Black is at least near Hit's current power level. I think Hit vs Black would be a better battle then golden frieza. He would get demolished. I mean he would torture black instead of killing him. Making him way more powerful

[ZombieVito]

Piccolo [Unweighted] vs Gohan [No Super Saiyan].

Both RoF arc.

[DBZ Macky]

Gotenks vs Gohan same power levels!

I think it's Gohan's win here. Gotenks is way too cocky and playful plus the two boys seem incredibly inexperienced. I can't remember if "yo son goku!" is canon but Gohan had to mentor them while they were struggling. Gotenks has his magic but Gohan's been shown to be able to break out of buutenks galactic donut even though he was weaker. He is also familiar with the ghost kamikaze attack now so he wouldn't fall for it again. Gohan also was hitting vital points in ROF and I can't see Goten and Trunks doing that.

Gohan was trained by Piccolo and Goku, he has more experience than Gotenks could ever hope to get. Gotenks is basically an overpowered brat with crafty and overpowered techniques. When you take out the power advantage, even Gohan from the Freeza arc can take this.

Piccolo [Unweighted] vs Gohan [No Super Saiyan].

Both RoF arc.

I think that Gohan has access to a little bit (~5%) of his mystic power in base and that his SSJ form is close to ~10% of his mystic power. So Gohan has this easily in terms of power but will still lose to Piccolo since he's a guy who can take on opponents far stronger than him now that he's "The tactician of U7".

[TobyS]

Tambourine or drum vs.

0. Saibamen.
1. Generic Freeza moonks.
2. Dodoria
3. Zarbon.
4. Ginyus

At equal power levels, testing skill.

[DBZ Macky]

Tambourine or drum vs.

0. Saibamen.
1. Generic Freeza moonks.
2. Dodoria
3. Zarbon.
4. Ginyus

At equal power levels, testing skill.

0 and 1 are easy wins. If you'd say that the Mazoku techniques are still increasing their battle powers then probably Dodoria but they cannot get any further IMO.

[kinisking]

Gotenks vs Gohan same power levels!

I think it's Gohan's win here. Gotenks is way too cocky and playful plus the two boys seem incredibly inexperienced. I can't remember if "yo son goku!" is canon but Gohan had to mentor them while they were struggling. Gotenks has his magic but Gohan's been shown to be able to break out of buutenks galactic donut even though he was weaker. He is also familiar with the ghost kamikaze attack now so he wouldn't fall for it again. Gohan also was hitting vital points in ROF and I can't see Goten and Trunks doing that.

Gohan was trained by Piccolo and Goku, he has more experience than Gotenks could ever hope to get. Gotenks is basically an overpowered brat with crafty and overpowered techniques. When you take out the power advantage, even Gohan from the Freeza arc can take this.

Piccolo [Unweighted] vs Gohan [No Super Saiyan].

Both RoF arc.

I think that Gohan has access to a little bit (~5%) of his mystic power in base and that his SSJ form is close to ~10% of his mystic power. So Gohan has this easily in terms of power but will still lose to Piccolo since he's a guy who can take on opponents far stronger than him now that he's "The tactician of U7".

If Gohan's like 1.5x Piccolo or more there is absolutely nothing he can do. He might be a tactician but he'll lose because power matters regardless. Unless Gohan doesn't take it seriously. However, I think Piccolo and him are pretty close in base ( gohan might be slightly stronger) and I think Piccolo would win.

[DBZ Macky]

Just watched the episode with subs. Gotta ask one question:
How the hell is Vegeta "just a warm-up" when he's almost equal to Goku in terms of battle power?
Are we going to see Goku use the Kaio-ken again or what?

Gotenks vs Gohan same power levels!

I think it's Gohan's win here. Gotenks is way too cocky and playful plus the two boys seem incredibly inexperienced. I can't remember if "yo son goku!" is canon but Gohan had to mentor them while they were struggling. Gotenks has his magic but Gohan's been shown to be able to break out of buutenks galactic donut even though he was weaker. He is also familiar with the ghost kamikaze attack now so he wouldn't fall for it again. Gohan also was hitting vital points in ROF and I can't see Goten and Trunks doing that.

Gohan was trained by Piccolo and Goku, he has more experience than Gotenks could ever hope to get. Gotenks is basically an overpowered brat with crafty and overpowered techniques. When you take out the power advantage, even Gohan from the Freeza arc can take this.

Piccolo [Unweighted] vs Gohan [No Super Saiyan].

Both RoF arc.

I think that Gohan has access to a little bit (~5%) of his mystic power in base and that his SSJ form is close to ~10% of his mystic power. So Gohan has this easily in terms of power but will still lose to Piccolo since he's a guy who can take on opponents far stronger than him now that he's "The tactician of U7".

If Gohan's like 1.5x Piccolo or more there is absolutely nothing he can do. He might be a tactician but he'll lose because power matters regardless. Unless Gohan doesn't take it seriously. However, I think Piccolo and him are pretty close in base ( gohan might be slightly stronger) and I think Piccolo would win.

I think it goes like this:
SSJ Gohan > Tired Final Form Frost > Ultimate-ish Gohan > Piccolo > Assault Form Frost > Base Goku > Base Gohan

If Piccolo can stalemate Frost then I'd feel that he could tango with Base/Ultimate-ish Gohan pretty easily and even manage to somewhat hold his own against SSJ Gohan.

[Hugo Boss]

Base Goku Black vs. Golden Freeza

No time line for Goku Black
No SSjR for now

Who wins?

It's fair to assume Goku and Vegeta have become much stronger since they defeated Freeza, but I'm not sure if we can say Black is that strong. I think he is probably around Super Saiyan God's level, then much weaker than Golden Freeza. Perhaps Black can turn the tables if he holds his own for a while, since Freeza's power has a time limit.

[kinisking]

Just watched the episode with subs. Gotta ask one question:
How the hell is Vegeta "just a warm-up" when he's almost equal to Goku in terms of battle power?
Are we going to see Goku use the Kaio-ken again or what?

Gohan was trained by Piccolo and Goku, he has more experience than Gotenks could ever hope to get. Gotenks is basically an overpowered brat with crafty and overpowered techniques. When you take out the power advantage, even Gohan from the Freeza arc can take this.



I think that Gohan has access to a little bit (~5%) of his mystic power in base and that his SSJ form is close to ~10% of his mystic power. So Gohan has this easily in terms of power but will still lose to Piccolo since he's a guy who can take on opponents far stronger than him now that he's "The tactician of U7".

If Gohan's like 1.5x Piccolo or more there is absolutely nothing he can do. He might be a tactician but he'll lose because power matters regardless. Unless Gohan doesn't take it seriously. However, I think Piccolo and him are pretty close in base ( gohan might be slightly stronger) and I think Piccolo would win.

I think it goes like this:
SSJ Gohan > Tired Final Form Frost > Ultimate-ish Gohan > Piccolo > Assault Form Frost > Base Goku > Base Gohan

If Piccolo can stalemate Frost then I'd feel that he could tango with Base/Ultimate-ish Gohan pretty easily and even manage to somewhat hold his own against SSJ Gohan.

Honestly, power levels are so subjective at this point that it's impossible to debate. Your guess is as good as mine .

[DBZ Macky]

Honestly, power levels are so subjective at this point that it's impossible to debate. Your guess is as good as mine .

I agree. But then again, these discussions wouldn't be half as fun if they'd be crystal clear
The only problem I have is that Toei is putting extra effort to make sure we know that they don't give a shit.
In the previous arcs they at least explained the characters' power ups through some plot device like the RoSaT and the Saichorou's unlock potential. Now we get Tagoma reaching ~SSJ2 level by IDK doing push-ups sit-ups and drinking plenty of juice?