The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

[apex_pretador]

Super Saiyan 2 Gohan (Cell Games) VS Base Vegeta (Pre-Majin)
If Vegeta loses, then also SSJ Vegeta from the same era.

Not even SSJ2 Vegeta wins.

Agreed.

[DBZ Macky]

New fights:

1.Ginyu [Tagoma] vs Perfect Cell.
2.Piccolo [Before training with RoF Gohan] vs East Kaioshin.
3.SSJ Gotenks [pre RoSaT] vs South Kaioshin.
4.West Kaioshin vs Perfect Cell [vs Goku].
5.North Kaioshin vs SSJ Goku [vs Perfect Cell].
6.Portara fusion of all 4 U7 Kaioshins vs Zamasu.
7.SSJ2 Future Trunks vs Zamasu.
8.SSR Black [With Kaioken x 20] vs Champa.
9.Gohan [Champa arc] vs Pure Boo.
10.Jaco vs Roshi [RoF arc].

No magic, absorption or body change.

1.Considering TOEI Logic, Gohan has 2 bases. One is his normal base and the other is his Ultimate Base. His Ultimate Base has however, reduced to SSJ tier due to lack of training. Now, his other Base form is actually quite strong too if you consider his normal base didn't change much. since it's his post Z-Sword base, his SSJ form is closer to Cell games SSJ2 level. So, Gohan SSJ ~ Super Perfect Cell >> Perfect Cell > Tagoma > Base Gohan

2."Dimensions apart" has been reduced to "I might beat him with an attack beyond my limits". Battle power wise, Piccolo is getting close and will eliminate the gap with some more training.
Magic is off so Piccolo wins this with some difficulty.
Piccolo (Post Gohan Training) > Kaioshin > Piccolo (Before training) > Piccolo (Boo arc)

3.I'm not sure about South Kaioshin's strength. He was strong enough for Boo to feel the need to absorb him but was unable to pull out the Z-Sword. I guess Buu wasn't able to quickly kill him because of his perseverance and just decided to absorb him.
Gotenks stomps.
I'd personally go by this:
Majjin Vegeta > SSJ Gotenks >> SSJ Vegeta > SSJ Gohan > Daikaioshin ~ Southern Kaioshin > Other Kaioshin > Eastern Kaioshin

4.It's anyone's guess. I'd say Cell has quite the advantage in battle power but West Kaioshin might have a slight chance if she could immobilize him like East Kaioshin immobilized Gohan. We don't know if the Kaioshin can attack and use magic at the same time though. I'd give this to Cell, since magic isn't allowed anyways.

5.North kaioshin is almost the same as West Kaioshin. SSJ Goku is almost as strong as Cell (against him).
This battle is almost the same as the battle above this.
The result is also almost the same.

6.Potara is crazy overpowered. I have Kibitoshin at SSJ2 tier. So a fusion between 2 kaioshin could be at SSJ3 tier...
wait... WHY DIDN'T THE KAIOSHIN USE THE POTARA WHEN THEY WERE BEING ATTACKED BY BOO!?
Anyways, another potara fusion between 2 SSJ3 tier characters puts "Omni-Kaioshin" at SSJG level, so future Zamasu gets the fight of his life if he's immortal, or gets stomped if he's not immortal. While present Zamasu... is victim to the "Destruction" of the gods of creation.

7.The Zamasu from the Future, the one from the present or the one in Black's body?
Trunks Vs. SSJ2 Goku, Trunks Vs. Goku Black or Trunks Vs. Goku Black rematch?
I'm gonna assume it's Trunks (Vs. Goku) Vs. Zamasu (Vs. Goku). Well, Trunks put up a better fight I'd say, so he'd win rather easily.

8.It's funny 'cause black probably has the Kaioken too but he is definitely not gonna use it. That being said, Champa stomps because Toriyama's script probably has the Destroyers staying stronger than everyone for a bit longer. At this point, Beerus and Champa are forever moving ceilings that Goku and Vegeta won't surpass until they do so in the manga itself.

9.Gohan might be incompetent, but even he is going to at least try to regain power comparable to his former peak after experiencing Freeza's torture. Gohan stomps.

10.Roshi beats Jaco without his MAX Powered form or his Kamehameha IMO.

Also, if you've revised your battle powers list, I'd like to see them. I used to follow them and agreed with most of them but I can't find them anymore. I'd be grateful if you could post them in the battle powers thread

Chapa-o is really hard to place. On one hand, I like the idea of Goku starting off the 22nd Budokai by completely humiliating someone as strong as he was during the last tournament, and Chapa's accolade of winning a Budokai without being touched is similar to the way 21st Jackie Chun fought Yamcha, meaning they could be similar assuming Yamcha is representative of a typical Budokai fighter (I think he is, he was likely weaker than Giran at that time). On the other hand, Mummy was also indicated to be around as strong or even stronger than 21st Goku, and Goku during Baba's Tournament oneshotted him. Yamcha and Jackie Chun wouldn't be so shocked that Goku easily defeated Chapa-o if he wasn't a lot stronger than Mummy, especially since he defeated Mummy easier. So the idea of Goku curbstomping himself to showcase his training can still work if he assume that Chapa is as strong as end of RRA Goku... but I don't like the idea of Chapa being stronger than Tao, Tao is supposed to be the world's greatest assassin, #1, especially since the revelation that Goku defeated Tao was a shock to everyone even after they witnessed Goku stomp Chapa.

So Chapa, in between 21st Goku and Tao? It's certainly possible, there's a lot of room in there. But then there's no thematic significance to Goku beating him.

I agree with what you said. Is it possible that Tao is actually a bit stronger than Gohan and Chapa? Because of the fact that Gohan knew Goku's fighting style, and that Goku might be a bit tired from fighting the army and the other fighters. It is also possible that Goku was using his "Match Power" since the bout was basically somewhat like the Budokai and not a fight to the death. That way we have some actual weight for Tsuru and Kame Sennin's surprise at Goku for beating Tao. It would make the power chain somewhat like this:

Kame-sennin ~ Goku (Full Power) > Tsuru-sennin > Tao > Kuririn ~ Yamcha > Chapa-o ~ Goku (Displayed Power) > Gohan

Where Goku is Uranai Baba Arc Goku.

Super Saiyan 2 Gohan (Cell Games) VS Base Vegeta (Pre-Majin)
If Vegeta loses, then also SSJ Vegeta from the same era.

How is this even a legitimate match-up?

[Khin]

I'd personally go by this:
Daikaioshin ~ Southern Kaioshin > Other Kaioshin > Eastern Kaioshin

How is Dai-Kaioshin stronger than South Kaioshin ? It was stated that the latter is the strongest out of the five of them.

[DBZ Macky]

I'd personally go by this:
Daikaioshin ~ Southern Kaioshin > Other Kaioshin > Eastern Kaioshin

How is Dai-Kaioshin stronger than South Kaioshin ? It was stated that the latter is the strongest out of the five of them.

When I said Daikaioshin ~ South Kaioshin, I meant that they're in the same tier of power.
Southern Kaioshin would be stronger physically by a wide margin and have a higher battle power, but Daikaioshin must also have some pretty impressive tricks up his sleeves if Boo felt the need to absorb him.
That, and the fact that Daikaioshin somewhat put up a fight against Boo in the anime filler (Which isn't contradicted by any other source).

[Khin]

When I said Daikaioshin ~ South Kaioshin, I meant that they're in the same tier of power.
Southern Kaioshin would be stronger physically by a wide margin and have a higher battle power, but Daikaioshin must also have some pretty impressive tricks up his sleeves if Boo felt the need to absorb him.
That, and the fact that Daikaioshin somewhat put up a fight against Boo in the anime filler (Which isn't contradicted by any other source).

The symbol “~” or “≈” usually means almost equal (As far as I know), so I read your post as if you're saying Dai-Kaioshin is slightly stronger than South Kaioshin.

The problem with your theory is that East Kaioshin never said anything about Dai-Kaioshin having some kind of tricks. Shouldn't he said “Next to be absorbed is the Great Kaioshin, who was fat, kind, and gentle and have some kind of strong magic tricks too” instead of just nothing that Dai-Kaioshin was fat, kind, and gentle ?

He might be considerably stronger than the other Kaioshin that's why Boo absorbed him, perhaps he might actually have some magic tricks too like you're suggesting, but I doubt that magic would put him on par with South Kaioshin, otherwise what's the point of emphasizing that South Kaioshin is the strongest out of all of them ?

All Dai-Kaioshin did in the filler flashback is use some kind of technique and made Boo explode, which doesn't mean much give Boo's nature and how didn't seem to take any actual damage.

[DanielSSJ]

Well the fight you proposed was with pre Majin Vegeta. That Vegeta was on par with a SSJ2 Gohan with no rage boost from the Boo arc. He stands no change against a raged SSJ2 Gohan from the Cell games.

New fights:

Ginyu [Tagoma] vs Perfect Cell.
Piccolo [Before training with RoF Gohan] vs East Kaioshin.
SSJ Gotenks [pre RoSaT] vs South Kaioshin.
West Kaioshin vs Perfect Cell [vs Goku].
North Kaioshin vs SSJ Goku [vs Perfect Cell].
Portara fusion of all 4 U7 Kaioshins vs Zamasu.
SSJ2 Future Trunks vs Zamasu.
SSR Black [With Kaioken x 20] vs Champa.
Gohan [Champa arc] vs Pure Boo.
Jaco vs Roshi [RoF arc].

No magic, absorption or body change.

- This one really depends on how strong Gohan is supposed to be at this point. Has Gohan regressed back to what he had at the start of the Boo arc, or is he in some quasi-Ultimate state where he needs the use of Super Saiyan to draw out some of that full power. In Super, Gohan's base form was apparently stronger than Piccolo, which could be because he's still packing some of his Ultimate power, or it could be Super's sloppy power-scaling. For the sake of this, I'm gonna say that Gohan is about as strong as he was at the start of Boo, him being stronger than Piccolo in base was an error, Ginyu-Tagoma was weaker than him and, therefor, weaker than Perfect Cell.

- I'm going with the idea that, until the Universe arc, Piccolo isn't much stronger than he was during the Boo arc, and therefor, would still be inferior to Kaioshin.

- South Kaioshin is the only one of the bunch who I could see being a match for the Super Saiyan 2s (aside from Kibitoshin, that is), and that he could probably take on a Gotenks who has yet to surpass Vegeta.

- Merging these next two, because the results are basically the same. East Kaioshin was the weakest of the bunch, and I typically stick him around the level of a Cell Junior. As long as North and West are stronger than him by a significant amount, they could probably match a suppressed Cell and Goku in raw power, though I'd give it to Cell and Goku for being battle geniuses who have a plethora of fighting experience versus the peaceful and serene God's of creation.

- Technically this match can't happen because you can only fuse with the Potara once, but if we assume that after they pair up and fuse, then use the fusion dance, they'd probably surpass present day Zamasu by a wide margin, but be woefully under prepared for the immortal future version.

- Zamasu fights evenly with a SS2 Goku, and Trunks' special "Full-Power" Super Saiyan 2 form is nearly as strong as SS3, and he could easily smash present Zamasu. Future Zamasu wins for obvious reasons.

- I've been using Super's manga for these last two matches, but I have no idea about this one.

- I have no idea whether or not Gohan's supposed to be any stronger than he was in the fight with Freeza, so I'd give it to Pure Boo.

- Jaco's fairly powerful, but he seemed to be purposefully going after the weakest of Freeza's goons, and was utilizing a lot of tricks and tactics. Muten Roshi almost undoubtedly has a fairly large skill and strength advantage, only suffering due to his stamina. He wins fairly easy.

22nd Yamcha vs 22nd Krillin.

I feel like Yamcha gave Ten a stronger fight in the manga than Krillin gave Goku. Also Yamcha deserves every bone throw he can possibly get, so I'm alright with saying he was stronger than Krillin at this point and that Krillin didn't reach his ultimate potential until adulthood.

In the anime the fights were more similar, with Ten and Goku both more or less toying with Yamcha and Krillin respectively. However as far as the manga goes, Yamcha was a legitimate challenge to Ten.

I dunno. It seemed to me that Kuririn gave Goku a better fight than Yamcha did Tenshinhan, but that can easily be explained by the different attitudes at play. Goku wanted a good, fun fight, so he really didn't go all out against Kuririn, whereas Tenshinhan was fighting to decisively beat and humiliate Yamcha. Given all the differing factors at play, I don't think you can use two characters' performance against two other characters as a 100% accurate comparison of their abilities. Kuririn says that he and Yamcha are about as strong as each other, and I'll take his word for it. I'd say that Yamcha actually has the advantage, since he has more practice using the Kamehameha, and can deal more damage with it. However, I don't think it's conclusive, and the match could go either way.

Chapa-o is really hard to place. On one hand, I like the idea of Goku starting off the 22nd Budokai by completely humiliating someone as strong as he was during the last tournament, and Chapa's accolade of winning a Budokai without being touched is similar to the way 21st Jackie Chun fought Yamcha, meaning they could be similar assuming Yamcha is representative of a typical Budokai fighter (I think he is, he was likely weaker than Giran at that time). On the other hand, Mummy was also indicated to be around as strong or even stronger than 21st Goku, and Goku during Baba's Tournament oneshotted him. Yamcha and Jackie Chun wouldn't be so shocked that Goku easily defeated Chapa-o if he wasn't a lot stronger than Mummy, especially since he defeated Mummy easier. So the idea of Goku curbstomping himself to showcase his training can still work if he assume that Chapa is as strong as end of RRA Goku... but I don't like the idea of Chapa being stronger than Tao, Tao is supposed to be the world's greatest assassin, #1, especially since the revelation that Goku defeated Tao was a shock to everyone even after they witnessed Goku stomp Chapa.

So Chapa, in between 21st Goku and Tao? It's certainly possible, there's a lot of room in there. But then there's no thematic significance to Goku beating him.

I personally rationalize the others' opinions about Goku's chances against Chapa and their later reaction to his humiliating defeat as having more to due with his fearsome reputation than any first-hand knowledge of their own. You can get away with a lot of things in this regard, considering none of the characters can sense Ki yet, and shouldn't be able to gain much indication of how strong someone is before they start fighting, aside from Goku, who seems to have a sixth sense for sniffing out strong opponents. (See Goku telling Kuririn that the Tenshinhan/Jackie Chun match could go either way.)

As far as Chapa's actual strength, I typically say that, power-wise, he's about as strong as Akkuman. They're both previous Budokai champions, their prowess causes Muten Roshi to doubt whether or not Goku would stand a chance against them, and they both get humiliated by Goku's overwhelming strength. I'd probably say that Chapa has the edge in straightforward strength and skill, while Akkuman relies more on his special powers (flight, conjuration, and the Devilmite Beam, etc.)

[Anime Kitten]

Piccolo (Raditz Arc*) VS Gohan (Garlic Jr. Arc)
No Special Beam Cannon/Makankosappo allowed; there'd be no time to charge it.
*That's how I classify the Raditz portion of the Saiyan Saga

[DanielSSJ]

Piccolo (Raditz Arc*) VS Gohan (Garlic Jr. Arc)
No Special Beam Cannon/Makankosappo allowed; there'd be no time to charge it.
*That's how I classify the Raditz portion of the Saiyan Saga

So, you expect Piccolo from the fight with Raditz, whose absolute max is barely 1,000 (which is only when charging his ultimate technique, which you banned), to be a good match for Gohan, after the fight with Freeza, who a has a battle power of least a couple hundred thousand?

[Anime Kitten]

So, you expect Piccolo from the fight with Raditz, whose absolute max is barely 1,000 (which is only when charging his ultimate technique, which you banned), to be a good match for Gohan, after the fight with Freeza, who a has a battle power of least a couple hundred thousand?

*facepalm*
Somehow completely disregarded Freeza. How about Piccolo before the (albeit little) training on King Kai/Kaiō's planet, before he got revived?

[DanielSSJ]

*facepalm*
Somehow completely disregarded Freeza. How about Piccolo before the (albeit little) training on King Kai/Kaiō's planet, before he got revived?

Gohan's still packing a power level well in the realm of the hundreds or thousands. In my opinion, Piccolo's only a little stronger than Nail before they merge, at around 50,000 or so.

[Steven Bloodriver]

1) Majin Vegeta (Super Saiyan 4) vs. Super Buu (Ultimate Gohan, Super Gotenks 3, and Piccolo Absorbed).

2) Goku Black vs. Super Saiyan God Turles.

[DBZAOTA482]

22nd Yamcha vs 22nd Krillin.

I feel like Yamcha gave Ten a stronger fight in the manga than Krillin gave Goku. Also Yamcha deserves every bone throw he can possibly get, so I'm alright with saying he was stronger than Krillin at this point and that Krillin didn't reach his ultimate potential until adulthood.

In the anime the fights were more similar, with Ten and Goku both more or less toying with Yamcha and Krillin respectively. However as far as the manga goes, Yamcha was a legitimate challenge to Ten.

Tien was never in danger of losing to Yamcha at all.

Oh and Krillin wins... they were said to be about equal but he showed more impressive skill and strategy than Yamcha ever did.

[AvatarReiko]

SSJ2 Trunks vs Buuhan

Future Zamasu vs Kid Buu

Beerus vs Black & Future Zamasu, Hit, SSJ2 Trunks, SSJB Vegeta, KKX10 SSJB Goku, Golden Frieza.

[DanielSSJ]

SSJ2 Trunks vs Buuhan

Future Zamasu vs Kid Buu

Beerus vs Black & Future Zamasu, Hit, SSJ2 Trunks, SSJB Vegeta, KKX10 SSJB Goku, Golden Frieza.

- Based on my interpretation of the Super manga, Goku hasn't gotten too much stronger since the Boo arc outside of his God forms, and SS2 Trunks is about as strong as his SS3. Gohan-Boo smashes him to pieces.
- Pure Boo turns Zamasu into candy and eats him. Zamasu learns the price of his immortality as he is forced to suffer inside Boo's gut for all eternity.
- Judging from Beerus' and Champa's trepidation when viewing Blue Kaioken Goku, I'd say even he would fall to the massive onslaught.

[ZombieVito]

SSJ2 Trunks vs Buuhan

Future Zamasu vs Kid Buu

Beerus vs Black & Future Zamasu, Hit, SSJ2 Trunks, SSJB Vegeta, KKX10 SSJB Goku, Golden Frieza.

1.- Even base Future Trunks beats this Boo, unless he gets careless and gets absorbed.
2.- Future Zamasu disintegrates Boo with a look.
3.- Beerus is fucked. He can't do shit to Future Zamasu and Black/Hit will get stronger/improve as the fight continues.

[Noah]

SSJ2 Trunks vs Buuhan

1.- Even base Future Trunks beats this Boo, unless he gets careless and gets absorbed.

What? How?

[ZombieVito]

SSJ2 Trunks vs Buuhan

1.- Even base Future Trunks beats this Boo, unless he gets careless and gets absorbed.

What? How?

Because this happened:

[apex_pretador]

SSJ2 Trunks vs Buuhan

Future Zamasu vs Kid Buu

Beerus vs Black & Future Zamasu, Hit, SSJ2 Trunks, SSJB Vegeta, KKX10 SSJB Goku, Golden Frieza.

Trunks 1 shots. See what vegetto did to buuhan.

Zamasu wins. He can also survive in space.

Beerus 7 shots. None of them deserve more than one shot.

[nickzambuto]

22nd Yamcha vs 22nd Krillin.

I feel like Yamcha gave Ten a stronger fight in the manga than Krillin gave Goku. Also Yamcha deserves every bone throw he can possibly get, so I'm alright with saying he was stronger than Krillin at this point and that Krillin didn't reach his ultimate potential until adulthood.

In the anime the fights were more similar, with Ten and Goku both more or less toying with Yamcha and Krillin respectively. However as far as the manga goes, Yamcha was a legitimate challenge to Ten.

Tien was never in danger of losing to Yamcha at all.

Oh and Krillin wins... they were said to be about equal but he showed more impressive skill and strategy than Yamcha ever did.

I said Yamcha was a legitimate challenge to Ten. Which he was, Ten outright admits this himself and states that Yamcha was a lot stronger than he initially gave him credit for. The two of them were trading blows, grimacing, and dealing damage, with Tenshinhan ultimately coming out on top, but Goku vs Krillin was an incredibly large gap. Goku outright stood still and caught Krillin's Kamehameha in one hand effortlessly. That match only lasted because Goku allowed it to, whereas Ten was serious against Yamcha and still took awhile to win. He had to use some special technique to reverse Yamcha's Kamehameha, if he had tried to catch it he likely would have been injured, let alone dead stopping it with one arm.

Krillin might be more clever than Yamcha is, but I see Yamcha as a greater fighter and definitely stronger during the 22nd Budokai. Keep in mind Krillin was still just a teenager at that point compared to adults, he would steadily grow at a faster rate than Yamcha and Tenshinhan as he matured, surpassing Yamcha by the 23ed Budokai, and then surpassing Tenshinhan by the Saiyans battle. But at the 22nd? When he was still just a boy and Yamcha and Ten were both far more experienced than him? It makes sense that they were both stronger.

[nickzambuto]

Krillin, Yamcha, and Tenshinhan all vs base Vegeta (Boo arc)? Personally I'd like to think they could pull it off.