The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

DanielSSJ · Post by **DanielSSJ** » Wed Oct 12, 2016 10:38 am

Steven Bloodriver wrote: 13) Golden Great Ape Goku vs. Hakaishin Luud (Full-Power).

14) Pandel vs. Babidi and his Majins.

15) Super Perfect Cell vs. Bojack and his Galaxy Soldiers.

- As I said earlier, I don't believe that Lood could beat Namek era Freeza. Super Ozaru Goku wins with ease.

- No flipping clue. Pan's power is all over the place already and that's without adding her significantly weaker mother into the mix.

- Super Perfect Cell is just about as strong as SS2 Gohan, and we all know how that fight turned out.

nickzambuto · Post by **nickzambuto** » Wed Oct 12, 2016 11:06 am

DBZAOTA482 wrote:
nickzambuto wrote:
DBZAOTA482 wrote: Tien was never in danger of losing to Yamcha at all.

Oh and Krillin wins... they were said to be about equal but he showed more impressive skill and strategy than Yamcha ever did.
I said Yamcha was a legitimate challenge to Ten. Which he was, Ten outright admits this himself and states that Yamcha was a lot stronger than he initially gave him credit for. The two of them were trading blows, grimacing, and dealing damage, with Tenshinhan ultimately coming out on top, but Goku vs Krillin was an incredibly large gap. Goku outright stood still and caught Krillin's Kamehameha in one hand effortlessly. That match only lasted because Goku allowed it to, whereas Ten was serious against Yamcha and still took awhile to win. He had to use some special technique to reverse Yamcha's Kamehameha, if he had tried to catch it he likely would have been injured, let alone dead stopping it with one arm.

Krillin might be more clever than Yamcha is, but I see Yamcha as a greater fighter and definitely stronger during the 22nd Budokai. Keep in mind Krillin was still just a teenager at that point compared to adults, he would steadily grow at a faster rate than Yamcha and Tenshinhan as he matured, surpassing Yamcha by the 23ed Budokai, and then surpassing Tenshinhan by the Saiyans battle. But at the 22nd? When he was still just a boy and Yamcha and Ten were both far more experienced than him? It makes sense that they were both stronger.
Krillin made his Kamehameha weak on purpose and Tien was not serious against Yamcha at all. He was just surprised Yamcha wasn't a weak nobody but in no way did Yamcha ever gave him a challenge. Yamcha was sweating like he came out of the sun while Tien was basically standing around chilling.

Also it took one kick for Tien to knock Yamcha out.

The whole point was that Krillin knew his Kamehameha couldn't do anything to Goku. Goku stated as much, and he wasn't aware of Krillin's true plan. He just thought Krillin was genuinely going for a Kamehameha. Unless you really think that a fully charged Kamehameha from Krillin at that time should have had more of an impact on Goku, but that just sounds like headcanon to me because I think the scene is pretty clear.

I'm looking at the manga right now, chapter 117. Tenshinhan throws a total of 8 attacks and lands 3 (including the Kamehameha reverse) while Yamcha throws a total of 3 attacks and lands 1 (including the Kamehameha). This is in addition to multiple fast-paced exchanges where it's impossible to tell who is throwing what, so overall they both probably threw dozens of strikes. Yamcha dodged and blocked all but three (so no, he wasn't oneshotted), while Ten dodged or blocked all but one. The whole time Ten was grimacing, yelling, and clearly needing to exert effort, while also stating outright "It's been a long time since I've had so much trouble..." Yamcha was doing the same and also had sweat drops on a few panels, but you're blatantly exaggerating. He was also smiling and acting cool and confident in the middle of the fight right before his Kamehameha, just as Ten was.

It seems you are going mainly by the anime, where Tenshinhan did in fact stomp Yamcha. However, the manga is a different story. Ten treated Yamcha like a genuine rival, and although he didn't go all-out with killer intent until he faced Goku, it's not like Yamcha was going all-out with killer intent either.

Ash57 · Post by **Ash57** » Wed Oct 12, 2016 11:08 am

13) Golden Great Ape Goku vs. Hakaishin Luud (Full-Power).

Lood is far, far stronger than Kid Boo but he is still nowhere near Golden Great Ape Goku if we're talking Baby Saga here.

14) Pandel vs. Babidi and his Majins.

Hyper Rild >> Enraged Pan > Super Mega Cannon Sigma ~ Suppressed Rild >>> Trunks. Pan smokes them out of existence so fast this is far from being even cringeworthy

15) Super Perfect Cell vs. Bojack and his Galaxy Soldiers.

SSJ2 Gohan >= Super Perfect Cell >> Super Bojack >> Full-Power Perfect Cell >> Base Bojack >> Bido, Bujin and Zangya together > FPSSJ Gohan > Bido, Bujin and Zangya alone. As such, Cell one-shots everyone but Bojack, who survives Cell's first hit, maybe the second but definitely not the third.

DBZAOTA482 · Post by **DBZAOTA482** » Wed Oct 12, 2016 11:27 am

nickzambuto wrote:The whole point was that Krillin knew his Kamehameha couldn't do anything to Goku. Goku stated as much, and he wasn't aware of Krillin's true plan. He just thought Krillin was genuinely going for a Kamehameha. Unless you really think that a fully charged Kamehameha from Krillin at that time should have had more of an impact on Goku, but that just sounds like headcanon to me because I think the scene is pretty clear.

I'm looking at the manga right now, chapter 117. Tenshinhan throws a total of 8 attacks and lands 3 (including the Kamehameha reverse) while Yamcha throws a total of 3 attacks and lands 1 (including the Kamehameha). This is in addition to multiple fast-paced exchanges where it's impossible to tell who is throwing what, so overall they both probably threw dozens of strikes. Yamcha dodged and blocked all but three (so no, he wasn't oneshotted), while Ten dodged or blocked all but one. The whole time Ten was grimacing, yelling, and clearly needing to exert effort, while also stating outright "It's been a long time since I've had so much trouble..." Yamcha was doing the same and also had sweat drops on a few panels, but you're blatantly exaggerating. He was also smiling and acting cool and confident in the middle of the fight right before his Kamehameha, just as Ten was.

It seems you are going mainly by the anime, where Tenshinhan did in fact stomp Yamcha. However, the manga is a different story. Ten treated Yamcha like a genuine rival, and although he didn't go all-out with killer intent until he faced Goku, it's not like Yamcha was going all-out with killer intent either.

Nope, going by the manga. Tien took awhile to adjust but gained the upper hand rather quickly which is why Yamcha opted for the Kamehameha and Tien dismissed him shorty after the fight as he was only interested in fighting Goku or Jackie Chun. If he was a genuine rival then he wouldn't have been so confident in his chances of winning the tournament. Yamcha's naturally cocky so his confidence isn't very exemplary.

BTW he was knocked out with one kick.

nickzambuto · Post by **nickzambuto** » Wed Oct 12, 2016 11:37 am

DBZAOTA482 wrote:
nickzambuto wrote:The whole point was that Krillin knew his Kamehameha couldn't do anything to Goku. Goku stated as much, and he wasn't aware of Krillin's true plan. He just thought Krillin was genuinely going for a Kamehameha. Unless you really think that a fully charged Kamehameha from Krillin at that time should have had more of an impact on Goku, but that just sounds like headcanon to me because I think the scene is pretty clear.

I'm looking at the manga right now, chapter 117. Tenshinhan throws a total of 8 attacks and lands 3 (including the Kamehameha reverse) while Yamcha throws a total of 3 attacks and lands 1 (including the Kamehameha). This is in addition to multiple fast-paced exchanges where it's impossible to tell who is throwing what, so overall they both probably threw dozens of strikes. Yamcha dodged and blocked all but three (so no, he wasn't oneshotted), while Ten dodged or blocked all but one. The whole time Ten was grimacing, yelling, and clearly needing to exert effort, while also stating outright "It's been a long time since I've had so much trouble..." Yamcha was doing the same and also had sweat drops on a few panels, but you're blatantly exaggerating. He was also smiling and acting cool and confident in the middle of the fight right before his Kamehameha, just as Ten was.

It seems you are going mainly by the anime, where Tenshinhan did in fact stomp Yamcha. However, the manga is a different story. Ten treated Yamcha like a genuine rival, and although he didn't go all-out with killer intent until he faced Goku, it's not like Yamcha was going all-out with killer intent either.
Nope, going by the manga. Tien took awhile to adjust but gained the upper hand rather quickly which is why Yamcha opted for the Kamehameha and Tien dismissed him shorty after the fight as he was only interested in fighting Goku or Jackie Chun. If he was a genuine rival then he wouldn't have been so confident in his chances of winning the tournament. Yamcha's naturally cocky so his confidence isn't very exemplary.

BTW he was knocked out with one kick.

Ten fought Yamcha and then assumed he must have been the strongest member of the Turtle School. That's why he was confident in his chances of winning the tournament. He wasn't interested in fighting Goku until later when he learned Goku killed Tao. I think you're remembering things very wrong.

And yes, Ten did knock Yamcha out with one kick, if you ignore the other two hard blows he clearly landed during the fight and the multiple fast-paced exchanges where we can't see what's happening. Also ignoring Yamcha's being caught off guard and distracted by his Kamehameha getting reversed.

Steven Bloodriver · Post by **Steven Bloodriver** » Wed Oct 12, 2016 11:51 am

Ash57 wrote:
13) Golden Great Ape Goku vs. Hakaishin Luud (Full-Power).
Lood is far, far stronger than Kid Boo but he is still nowhere near Golden Great Ape Goku if we're talking Baby Saga here.

14) Pandel vs. Babidi and his Majins.
Hyper Rild >> Enraged Pan > Super Mega Cannon Sigma ~ Suppressed Rild >>> Trunks. Pan smokes them out of existence so fast this is far from being even cringeworthy

15) Super Perfect Cell vs. Bojack and his Galaxy Soldiers.
SSJ2 Gohan >= Super Perfect Cell >> Super Bojack >> Full-Power Perfect Cell >> Base Bojack >> Bido, Bujin and Zangya together > FPSSJ Gohan > Bido, Bujin and Zangya alone. As such, Cell one-shots everyone but Bojack, who survives Cell's first hit, maybe the second but definitely not the third.

16) Mecha Frieza vs. Lord Slug (Youth Restored).

17) Meta Cooler vs. Android 13.

18) Super 17 (just after being born) vs. Goku Black (just after he took Goku’s body).

19) Syn Shenron vs. Present Zamasu.

DBZAOTA482 · Post by **DBZAOTA482** » Wed Oct 12, 2016 12:03 pm

nickzambuto wrote:
DBZAOTA482 wrote:
nickzambuto wrote:The whole point was that Krillin knew his Kamehameha couldn't do anything to Goku. Goku stated as much, and he wasn't aware of Krillin's true plan. He just thought Krillin was genuinely going for a Kamehameha. Unless you really think that a fully charged Kamehameha from Krillin at that time should have had more of an impact on Goku, but that just sounds like headcanon to me because I think the scene is pretty clear.

I'm looking at the manga right now, chapter 117. Tenshinhan throws a total of 8 attacks and lands 3 (including the Kamehameha reverse) while Yamcha throws a total of 3 attacks and lands 1 (including the Kamehameha). This is in addition to multiple fast-paced exchanges where it's impossible to tell who is throwing what, so overall they both probably threw dozens of strikes. Yamcha dodged and blocked all but three (so no, he wasn't oneshotted), while Ten dodged or blocked all but one. The whole time Ten was grimacing, yelling, and clearly needing to exert effort, while also stating outright "It's been a long time since I've had so much trouble..." Yamcha was doing the same and also had sweat drops on a few panels, but you're blatantly exaggerating. He was also smiling and acting cool and confident in the middle of the fight right before his Kamehameha, just as Ten was.

It seems you are going mainly by the anime, where Tenshinhan did in fact stomp Yamcha. However, the manga is a different story. Ten treated Yamcha like a genuine rival, and although he didn't go all-out with killer intent until he faced Goku, it's not like Yamcha was going all-out with killer intent either.
Nope, going by the manga. Tien took awhile to adjust but gained the upper hand rather quickly which is why Yamcha opted for the Kamehameha and Tien dismissed him shorty after the fight as he was only interested in fighting Goku or Jackie Chun. If he was a genuine rival then he wouldn't have been so confident in his chances of winning the tournament. Yamcha's naturally cocky so his confidence isn't very exemplary.

BTW he was knocked out with one kick.
Ten fought Yamcha and then assumed he must have been the strongest member of the Turtle School. That's why he was confident in his chances of winning the tournament. He wasn't interested in fighting Goku until later when he learned Goku killed Tao. I think you're remembering things very wrong.

And yes, Ten did knock Yamcha out with one kick, if you ignore the other two hard blows he clearly landed during the fight and the multiple fast-paced exchanges where we can't see what's happening. Also ignoring Yamcha's being caught off guard and distracted by his Kamehameha getting reversed.

Exactly. The fact Tien didn't think little of the others' prowess shows Yamcha never gave Tien a run for his money.

Yes Yamcha was caught off guard and distracted but that doesn't change the fact it didn't take much for Tien to win.

DanielSSJ · Post by **DanielSSJ** » Wed Oct 12, 2016 2:57 pm

Steven Bloodriver wrote: 16) Mecha Frieza vs. Lord Slug (Youth Restored).

17) Meta Cooler vs. Android 13.

18) Super 17 (just after being born) vs. Goku Black (just after he took Goku’s body).

19) Syn Shenron vs. Present Zamasu.

- When Slug is described as being stronger than Freeza, I'm willing to bet that he was intended to be stronger than First Form Freeza. The mechanically enhanced tyrant crushes Slug like a... slug....
- This depends heavily one which version of Cooler this is. If it's before his first repair, then it could go either way. After his first repair, he holds a firm advantage over the robotic southern stereotype. I'm assuming this is regular Android No. 13, by the way.
- Mixing GT and Super is just asking for a headache, so I won't.

Sandubadear · Post by **Sandubadear** » Wed Oct 12, 2016 5:03 pm

Zamasu vs. South Kaioshin

DanielSSJ · Post by **DanielSSJ** » Wed Oct 12, 2016 6:53 pm

Sandubadear wrote:Zamasu vs. South Kaioshin

I believe in the Super manga (I can't say for the anime) that East Kaioshin says that, out of all the Kaioshin across all the Universes, none would be a match for Zamasu. I know South is dead (or apart of Boo, I guess) but I get the feeling he would be included in that statement, had he been alive.

ZombieVito · Post by **ZombieVito** » Wed Oct 12, 2016 7:26 pm

Polyphase Avatron wrote:SSJB Goku (rage boost against Black and Zamasu) vs. SSJB Goku (Kaio-ken against Hit)

I'm going to go with the raged boosted Goku. I'm sure he can resist long enough for the Kaioken to cripple the other Goku.

Sandubadear wrote:Zamasu vs. South Kaioshin

Zamasu is 100 times stronger than SSJ3 Gotenks. He kills South Kaioshin with a look.

Steven Bloodriver · Post by **Steven Bloodriver** » Wed Oct 12, 2016 8:55 pm

DanielSSJ wrote:
Steven Bloodriver wrote: 16) Mecha Frieza vs. Lord Slug (Youth Restored).

17) Meta Cooler vs. Android 13.

18) Super 17 (just after being born) vs. Goku Black (just after he took Goku’s body).

19) Syn Shenron vs. Present Zamasu.
- When Slug is described as being stronger than Freeza, I'm willing to bet that he was intended to be stronger than First Form Freeza. The mechanically enhanced tyrant crushes Slug like a... slug....
- This depends heavily one which version of Cooler this is. If it's before his first repair, then it could go either way. After his first repair, he holds a firm advantage over the robotic southern stereotype. I'm assuming this is regular Android No. 13, by the way.
- Mixing GT and Super is just asking for a headache, so I won't.

20) Semi-Perfect Cell vs. Super Saiyan Vegeta (Androids Saga).

21) First Form Hirudegarn vs. Super Vegeta.

22) GT Vegito (Shadow Dragon Saga) vs. Majin Vegeta.

23) Goku Black vs. Copy-Vegeta.

DanielSSJ · Post by **DanielSSJ** » Wed Oct 12, 2016 9:13 pm

Steven Bloodriver wrote: 20) Semi-Perfect Cell vs. Super Saiyan Vegeta (Androids Saga).

21) First Form Hirudegarn vs. Super Vegeta.

22) GT Vegito (Shadow Dragon Saga) vs. Majin Vegeta.

23) Goku Black vs. Copy-Vegeta.

- Vegeta before or after he came out of the Room of Spirit and Time? Because if it's before, Semi-Perfect is at least well over twice as strong as Vegeta. If it's after, Vegeta was sorta implied ot possibly be a match for Semi-Perfect Cell in his normal Super Saiyan, judging from Trunks' surprise that Vegeta jumped straight into Grade 2.

- Hildegarn's lower half was already Majin Boo tier on its own and you want Grade 2 Vegeta from the Cell arc to fight him?

- What kind of question is this? Vegeta from the Boo arc is expected to fight motherf*cking Vegetto from motherf*cking GT?! Aka that series with a power scale so absurd that Goku can beat Boo-level treats without going Super Saiyan?!

- Well Copy-Vegeta is apparently just as strong as the original, and Black left Vegeta in a near-death state, so you tell me.

Steven Bloodriver · Post by **Steven Bloodriver** » Wed Oct 12, 2016 9:37 pm

DanielSSJ wrote:
Steven Bloodriver wrote: 20) Semi-Perfect Cell vs. Super Saiyan Vegeta (Androids Saga).

21) First Form Hirudegarn vs. Super Vegeta.

22) GT Vegito (Shadow Dragon Saga) vs. Majin Vegeta.

23) Goku Black vs. Copy-Vegeta.
- Vegeta before or after he came out of the Room of Spirit and Time? Because if it's before, Semi-Perfect is at least well over twice as strong as Vegeta. If it's after, Vegeta was sorta implied ot possibly be a match for Semi-Perfect Cell in his normal Super Saiyan, judging from Trunks' surprise that Vegeta jumped straight into Grade 2.

- Hildegarn's lower half was already Majin Boo tier on its own and you want Grade 2 Vegeta from the Cell arc to fight him?

- What kind of question is this? Vegeta from the Boo arc is expected to fight motherf*cking Vegetto from motherf*cking GT?! Aka that series with a power scale so absurd that Goku can beat Boo-level treats without going Super Saiyan?!

- Well Copy-Vegeta is apparently just as strong as the original, and Black left Vegeta in a near-death state, so you tell me.

Well, I just plain don't like Vegeta, but I do enjoy when he gets instant karma for wanting to be a dick.

24) Captain Ginyu vs. Turles (before eating any fruit).

25) Autta Magetta vs. Golden Frieza.

26) Super Saiyan 2 Teen Gohan vs. Super Saiyan 2 Adult Gohan.

27) Super Buu (Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks and Piccolo Absorbed) vs. Tagoma (after training with Frieza in the Dragon Ball Super anime).

Anime Kitten · Post by **Anime Kitten** » Wed Oct 12, 2016 9:45 pm

Android #18 (against Vegeta) VS Base Future Trunks (Post-ROSAT/HTC)

DanielSSJ · Post by **DanielSSJ** » Wed Oct 12, 2016 9:52 pm

Anime Kitten wrote:Android #18 (against Vegeta) VS Base Future Trunks (Post-ROSAT/HTC)

As per Battle of Gods, all the Saiyans who aren't Ultimate or a fusion are weaker than Freeza's 100% power on Namek in their normal forms. Trunks and the rest of them need Super Saiyan to do anything of consequence.

Anime Kitten · Post by **Anime Kitten** » Wed Oct 12, 2016 10:00 pm

DanielSSJ wrote:As per Battle of Gods, all the Saiyans who aren't Ultimate or a fusion are weaker than Freeza's 100% power on Namek in their normal forms. Trunks and the rest of them need Super Saiyan to do anything of consequence.

Fair point, though I assumed Super Saiyan could slaughter her based on what Trunks did to Future #18.

---

I'm gonna try this "running the gauntlet" thing you guys do.
Super Saiyan Vegetto VS:
Majin Super Janemba (if he somehow gained the same power boost as Vegeta)
Super Saiyan Gogeta
10% Beerus
Base Goku (EOZ)
Super Saiyan Goku (EOZ)
As a side note, these are in chronological order, not necessarily power.

DBZAOTA482 · Post by **DBZAOTA482** » Wed Oct 12, 2016 10:06 pm

Anime Kitten wrote:Android #18 (against Vegeta) VS Base Future Trunks (Post-ROSAT/HTC)

#18 but it won't be easy.

Anime Kitten wrote: Super Saiyan Vegetto VS:
Majin Super Janemba (if he somehow gained the same power boost as Vegeta)
Super Saiyan Gogeta
10% Beerus
Base Goku (EOZ)
Super Saiyan Goku (EOZ)
As a side note, these are in chronological order, not necessarily power.

Vegetto slaughters full-house

nickzambuto · Post by **nickzambuto** » Thu Oct 13, 2016 8:58 am

What if Cell remembered that he knew the Kaioken? How would that have changed these battles?

Imperfect vs Piccolo

Semi vs Vegeta

Perfect vs Gohan

Khin · Post by **Khin** » Thu Oct 13, 2016 9:26 am

nickzambuto wrote:What if Cell remembered that he knew the Kaioken? How would that have changed these battles?

Imperfect vs Piccolo

Semi vs Vegeta

Perfect vs Gohan

Cell wins all those matches with just regular Kaio-ken. He'd have the most difficulty against Gohan, but he will eventually win due to superior skills, experience, capability to survive in space, etc. Alternatively he can just go Kaio-ken x3 and one shot him.

Noah wrote:New matches:

- Goku Black (Super Saiyan Rosé) vs Hitto (full improvement with assassin techniques)
- Beerus vs. Zamack

- Hit stomps hard. It was implied that he could have killed SSBKKx10 Goku had he use his assassination techniques, and he successfully froze said version of Goku with his fully improved time skip, who I think is much stronger than Super Saiyan Rosé Black. Getting stronger from being damaged won't matter anything when your opponent can freeze you and blow a hole through your stomach.

- No way to tell so far.

Anime Kitten wrote:I'm gonna try this "running the gauntlet" thing you guys do.
Super Saiyan Vegetto VS:
Majin Super Janemba (if he somehow gained the same power boost as Vegeta)
Super Saiyan Gogeta
10% Beerus
Base Goku (EOZ)
Super Saiyan Goku (EOZ)
As a side note, these are in chronological order, not necessarily power.

Vegetto easily breezes through everyone except 10% Beerus, who bitchslaps him even as a Super Saiyan 3.

Kanzenshuu

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