Official On-Going DBZ 2015 Movie Thread: "Resurrection 'F'"

[Gianchio]

The kotaku review makes a good point but kind of disregards the entire context of Freeza's return. Fans are already livid that he's now stronger than Gohan, imagine the reaction had he been somehow able to take both Vegeta and Goku as super saiyan god super saiyans? Yeesh. No, I thought the movie handled the whole affair brilliantly. It was ultimately both the hubris of Freeza and Goku that gives the movie its most insightful moments. For the first time in probably the franchise's history, Goku has to look his mistakes right in the face(namely Bulma sobbing) and concede that he was too stubborn for his own good. I agree that as a standalone movie with no series context, RoF suffers from some pretty serious structural problems. However as a continuation of the franchise, it's amazing.

The stroke of Genius with Freeza is that by the end of the movie, he has basically done away with anyone who would have possibly wished him back again in the first place bringing his story to a final close. All because he couldn't just look the other way and enjoy the 75 planets he currently owns. And of course, because he's extremely abusive of his own followers.

Well he is stronger or at least as strong as Goku and Vegeta so...no. It would have been so much better if he was a real threat.
If the next villain will be stronger than Gohan (and of course he will be) should we complain about that? Hell, at least here the villain is the one who trains, not some new guy out of nowhere that is "the strongest of all the universes!1!!!!!" because who cares.

[mAcChaos]

The whole point of the movie was not power but their weaknesses with personalities though.

Still they could have included both.

[radrappy]

Well he is stronger or at least as strong as Goku and Vegeta so...no. It would have been so much better if he was a real threat.

No, it would just have been completely different. There's an entire amazing scene in this movie where Freeza absolutely freaks the fuck out once he realizes that after all his efforts he's STILL not quite strong enough to beat Goku. It's true to his character and was a perfect moment. That's what articles like the Kotaku one are completely disregarding; this isn't just some tough meathead threat to be conquered like Broly or Janemba. Freeza is a layered, nuanced character (or as much as a DBZ villain ever has been or ever will be) who is more than just a physical threat. The joy of RoF doesn't come from some insurmountable challenge being conquered, but from the character interactions and surprising story turns. When you try to dissect everything with a formula, you're going to be missing some important aspects of the experience.

Plus, He does spend the majority of the movie being a very real threat; it's only for the last 20 min of the film that it's clear that Goku and Vegeta are just toying with him.

[TheGameTagerZ]

V-Jump posted the first two chapters of the manga in HQ if anyone wants to read

http://plus.shonenjump.com/rensai_detai ... 0001442_57

[Dyno]

I heard some people want wallpapers, am I right? What about these!?

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

[Lord Beerus]

Spoiler:

That is awesome.

[fadeddreams5]

Well he is stronger or at least as strong as Goku and Vegeta so...no. It would have been so much better if he was a real threat.

No, it would just have been completely different. There's an entire amazing scene in this movie where Freeza absolutely freaks the fuck out once he realizes that after all his efforts he's STILL not quite strong enough to beat Goku. It's true to his character and was a perfect moment. That's what articles like the Kotaku one are completely disregarding; this isn't just some tough meathead threat to be conquered like Broly or Janemba. Freeza is a layered, nuanced character (or as much as a DBZ villain ever has been or ever will be) who is more than just a physical threat. The joy of RoF doesn't come from some insurmountable challenge being conquered, but from the character interactions and surprising story turns. When you try to dissect everything with a formula, you're going to be missing some important aspects of the experience.

Plus, He does spend the majority of the movie being a very real threat; it's only for the last 20 min of the film that it's clear that Goku and Vegeta are just toying with him.

I would have preferred Golden Frieza to be a real threat, dominating both Goku and Vegeta, individually. This would prompt them to work together, which was Whis' lesson in the first place. Like in the movie, Frieza's power would gradually weaken as he engages in an arduous battle against the two SSJGs at the same time. The wear and tear would revert him to his original form. Goku would show mercy. Vegeta would tell Goku to move aside, charge his blast to deliver the final blow, but he'd be too slow to prevent Frieza from blowing up the planet. Whis would speak to Goku while he's in limbo (crossing to the other world), and warn him of his mistake before reversing time (only Goku would be aware of this). Finally, Goku would pull the trigger against Frieza before he has a chance to destroy the world.

There. Frieza is a real threat, he can break down exactly like in the movie, and the film would capitalize on the evolution of Goku and Vegeta as fighters and partners.

Also, no blue SSJs plz.

[Gianchio]

Well he is stronger or at least as strong as Goku and Vegeta so...no. It would have been so much better if he was a real threat.

No, it would just have been completely different. There's an entire amazing scene in this movie where Freeza absolutely freaks the fuck out once he realizes that after all his efforts he's STILL not quite strong enough to beat Goku. It's true to his character and was a perfect moment. That's what articles like the Kotaku one are completely disregarding; this isn't just some tough meathead threat to be conquered like Broly or Janemba. Freeza is a layered, nuanced character (or as much as a DBZ villain ever has been or ever will be) who is more than just a physical threat. The joy of RoF doesn't come from some insurmountable challenge being conquered, but from the character interactions and surprising story turns. When you try to dissect everything with a formula, you're going to be missing some important aspects of the experience.

Plus, He does spend the majority of the movie being a very real threat; it's only for the last 20 min of the film that it's clear that Goku and Vegeta are just toying with him.

I would have preferred Golden Freeza to be a real threat, dominating both Goku and Vegeta, individually. This would prompt them to work together, which was Whis' lesson in the first place. Like in the movie, Freeza's power would gradually weaken as he engages in an arduous battle against the two SSJGs at the same time. The wear and tear would revert him to his original form. Goku would show mercy. Vegeta would tell Goku to move aside, charge his blast to deliver the final blow, but he'd be too slow to prevent Freeza from blowing up the planet. Whis would speak to Goku while he's in limbo (crossing to the other world), and warn him of his mistake before reversing time (only Goku would be aware of this). Finally, Goku would pull the trigger against Freeza before he has a chance to destroy the world.

There. Freeza is a real threat, he can break down exactly like in the movie, and the film would capitalize on the evolution of Goku and Vegeta as fighters and partners.

Also, no lame ass blue SSJs. I can't imagine anyone finding these forms cooler than the original SSJ transformation.

This is a very good example.

[Neo-Makaiōshin]

Many people says that Whis time travel power was a Deus ex machina but my question is :

1.How can it be ? when said power is stated at the begining/first minutes of the movie therefore it didn´t come out of nowhere.

[Ajay]

Many people says that Whis time travel power was a Deus ex machina but my question is :

1.How can it be ? when said power is stated at the begining/first minutes of the movie therefore it didn´t come out of nowhere.

Hrmm, that's an interesting point. It's certainly contrived and exists entirely for the sake of wrapping up the plot neatly, but is it really a deus ex machina?

Despite the term's origins, I don't think it being mentioned earlier in the film negates what it really is. It begins as a Chekhov's Gun and then eventually becomes a convenient saving force. That's definitely one of the many definitions for a deus ex machina.

If the saving force further adds to the plot - perhaps complicating the plot somehow - then it's best to consider it a new turn in the story. When it's brought up again out of nowhere and neatly wraps everything up without dealing with all of the complications that arose throughout, it's absolutely a deus ex machina. That's exactly what Whis' power is. Its use at the end doesn't spawn any new problems for our heroes, it just fixes them magically.

It's terrible writing, but it's not something that's particularly new to Dragon Ball. The Boo arc featured a terrible case of it when the Namekians had conveniently changed the Dragon Balls in a way that just so happened to aid the heroes in saving the day.

Dragon Ball is based on the very concept of the device. It sucks, but I don't think it's a big deal, really.

[radrappy]

Many people says that Whis time travel power was a Deus ex machina but my question is :

1.How can it be ? when said power is stated at the begining/first minutes of the movie therefore it didn´t come out of nowhere.

You're actually correct. Because the information was set up very early on, it's not jarring or dissatisfying when it happens.

[radrappy]

Well he is stronger or at least as strong as Goku and Vegeta so...no. It would have been so much better if he was a real threat.

No, it would just have been completely different. There's an entire amazing scene in this movie where Freeza absolutely freaks the fuck out once he realizes that after all his efforts he's STILL not quite strong enough to beat Goku. It's true to his character and was a perfect moment. That's what articles like the Kotaku one are completely disregarding; this isn't just some tough meathead threat to be conquered like Broly or Janemba. Freeza is a layered, nuanced character (or as much as a DBZ villain ever has been or ever will be) who is more than just a physical threat. The joy of RoF doesn't come from some insurmountable challenge being conquered, but from the character interactions and surprising story turns. When you try to dissect everything with a formula, you're going to be missing some important aspects of the experience.

Plus, He does spend the majority of the movie being a very real threat; it's only for the last 20 min of the film that it's clear that Goku and Vegeta are just toying with him.

I would have preferred Golden Freeza to be a real threat, dominating both Goku and Vegeta, individually. This would prompt them to work together, which was Whis' lesson in the first place. Like in the movie, Freeza's power would gradually weaken as he engages in an arduous battle against the two SSJGs at the same time. The wear and tear would revert him to his original form. Goku would show mercy. Vegeta would tell Goku to move aside, charge his blast to deliver the final blow, but he'd be too slow to prevent Freeza from blowing up the planet. Whis would speak to Goku while he's in limbo (crossing to the other world), and warn him of his mistake before reversing time (only Goku would be aware of this). Finally, Goku would pull the trigger against Freeza before he has a chance to destroy the world.

There. Freeza is a real threat, he can break down exactly like in the movie, and the film would capitalize on the evolution of Goku and Vegeta as fighters and partners.

Also, no blue SSJs plz.

You're coming at this from a very western storytelling style of narrative here. Akira Toriyama isn't in this to adhere to anyone's structure or preferences; it's what makes his work unique and his voice appealing. What you've described is very serviceable but also very plain and predictable. It's the reason why no one but Toriyama can write the characters quite like themselves. Goku and Vegeta did learn something from this experience in their own way; but the point of the movie isn't about learning to work together at all.

[Lord Beerus]

Many people says that Whis time travel power was a Deus ex machina but my question is :

1.How can it be ? when said power is stated at the begining/first minutes of the movie therefore it didn´t come out of nowhere.

That's a good point. But as AjayLikesGaming pointed out, it just most likely terrible writing because of how the Whis' ability is handled during the movie.

[fadeddreams5]

You're coming at this from a very western storytelling style of narrative here. Akira Toriyama isn't in this to adhere to anyone's structure or preferences; it's what makes his work unique and his voice appealing. What you've described is very serviceable but also very plain and predictable. It's the reason why no one but Toriyama can write the characters quite like themselves. Goku and Vegeta did learn something from this experience in their own way; but the point of the movie isn't about learning to work together at all.

I don't really know what you mean by western storytelling style of narrative. I'm not saying Toriyama should adhere to what I want. I was explaining that what you described could still be present even if Frieza was an actual threat, and dominated the others for a while. The concept of his powers decreasing due to inexperience could have remained, and he could still freak out. All the characters could be represented as Toriyama knows how to best as well. Nothing I wrote is any less predictable than the movie as it stands, with the exception of the Goku/Sorbet moment and SSJGSSJ.

And yeah, the movie may not be about them working together, but it is a lesson that Whis tried to teach them, and something that could have finished this battle more quickly. In the end, apparently, they imply they'd never work together anyways, so lesson failed. It would have been nice to see this in action. Also, potentially funny seeing their personalities and fighting styles clash due to lack of synergy.

[Dyno]

For safely/spoilers and whatever more purposes, I won't post the leaked scene I just finished watching, but I'll comment about it.

Spoiler:

Everyone is shocked by seeing Freeza who just finished transforming into his fourth form, now stronger. But the most interesting part that I want so bad to know what they are saying is when Jaco apparently asks who is fighting against Freeza, and Bulma answers him and in the middle of her sentence she says "Saiyan", which I think Jaco later on connects this with his past visit...

It was cool to see Vegeta getting angry, flying towards them and starts punching Kakarot.

[radrappy]

In the end, apparently, they imply they'd never work together anyways, so lesson failed. It would have been nice to see this in action. Also, potentially funny seeing their personalities and fighting styles clash due to lack of synergy.

I may be misremembering, but Whis's lesson was about Goku being too careless and letting his guard down too. That's definitely something Goku pays for in the film.

[Saiyan007]

For safely purposes, I won't post the leaked scene I just finished watching, but I'll comment about it:

Everyone is shocked by seeing Freeza who just finished transforming into his fourth form, now stronger. But the most interesting part that I want so bad to know what they are saying is when Jaco apparently asks who is fighting against Freeza, and Bulma answers him and in the middle of her sentence she says "Saiyan", which I think Jaco later on connects this with his past visit...

It was cool to see Vegeta getting angry, flying towards them and starts punching Kakarot.

leaked scene from where?

a new tv spot?

[TheRed259]

I don't know if this is meant to be taken seriously.

[Dyno]

leaked scene from where?

a new tv spot?

From a camera. Someone recorded.

I don't know if this is meant to be taken seriously.

Spoiler:

Of course not.

[Saiyan007]

I don't know if this is meant to be taken seriously.

Spoiler:

I actually just made a thread on that, lol.