The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Discussion, generally of an in-universe nature, regarding any aspect of the franchise (including movies, spin-offs, etc.) such as: techniques, character relationships, internal back-history, its universe, and more.
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Legion » Mon Nov 07, 2016 4:34 pm

Anime Kitten wrote:
Legion wrote:[spoiler]Whis said that Goku/Vegeta could probably take on Beerus only in the movie, not in super. The movies are irrelevant with super.[/spoiler]
[spoiler]I think Super is canon with the movies, as evidenced by things such as the Trunks/Mai relationship, which was only present in the BOG movie.[/spoiler]
[spoiler]It does not matter, super is still different, the continuity is different. Toriyama rewrite the movies for DBS and many thing are changed, like the power levels for example.

In the previous episodes we saw Black Goku WRECKED Goku, Vegeta and Trunks and do you really think that before the training for the Universe 6/7 tournament Goku and Vegeta can beat Beerus? come on :wink: In Frieza arc actually, Whis stated Beerus was a mountain and Goku was a mere tree. The difference is clear.[/spoiler]

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Zamasu55 » Mon Nov 07, 2016 4:35 pm

Angelus wrote:
Noah wrote:Who's the strongest character Base Vegetto (Super) can beat in the series?
Depends if it's Anime or Manga. Manga Vegito seems to be weaker, as he needed to be a SSJ to beat up initial Buuhan. Let's go with the Anime one, who can beat up initial Buuhan, while in base form. Probably base Copy-Vegeta. Either that or base Cabba. SSJ3 Gotenks couldn't do much against base Copy-Vegeta. Base Vegito is more powerful than SSJ3 Gotenks so he might have a chance against base Copy-Vegeta. He sure can beat Botamo in a tournament setting, just fine.

EDIT: I thought you meant Base Vegito from Z! If it's the Vegito from the Episode 66 preview then his base should be able to beat up both SSJ Rose Black and Immortal Zamasu at the same time, at a minimum. Potara is a big boost so he'll be able to do a better job beating up those 2 guys than SSJB Goku and Vegeta did


Since we're at the topic of DBS, here's a rematch of an old match:

Full Power Golden Frieza VS SSJ with blue god Ki Future Trunks (as of DBS Episode 64 only; no sword)


and a little extra match:

Nappa VS 3 Warrior-type Namekians (those 3, each with power levels around 3000, that were slaughtered by Dodoria)
1. Sadly, Super Trunks one-shots. I say sadly because it makes no sense...
2. Nappa, not easily though.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Zamasu55 » Mon Nov 07, 2016 4:38 pm

Anime Kitten wrote:
Zamasu55 wrote:Base form Frieza (post training) stomped Ssj Gohan.
A minor nitpick, but Freeza's First Form isn't his Base. It's a restrained version of it. His Base is his Final Form.
Zamasu55 wrote:[spoiler]That line is irrilevant now, just like the 6-10-15 thing.[/spoiler]
[spoiler]Whis spoke the line in-universe. The 6-10-15 thing was from Mr. Toriyama. There's no indication that either are irrelevant.[/spoiler]
It still is his weakest form. :P

[spoiler]Toriyama stated Champa > Goku Kkx10 + Hit's Time-skip technique, so that makes the 6-10-15 thing no longer relevant.[/spoiler]

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Legion » Mon Nov 07, 2016 4:39 pm

Anime Kitten wrote:
Zamasu55 wrote:Base form Frieza (post training) stomped Ssj Gohan.
A minor nitpick, but Freeza's First Form isn't his Base. It's a restrained version of it. His Base is his Final Form.
Zamasu55 wrote:[spoiler]That line is irrilevant now, just like the 6-10-15 thing.[/spoiler]
[spoiler]Whis spoke the line in-universe. The 6-10-15 thing was from Mr. Toriyama. There's no indication that either are irrelevant.[/spoiler]
[spoiler]That statement was for BOG movie, before super. Yeah, is irrelevant. The movies are irrelevant at this point. Nothing was said in terms of the amount of power Beerus used in the anime. If it was even close to 70% then Goku would have long surpassed him by now and he hasn't (kaioken or no).[/spoiler]

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Anime Kitten » Mon Nov 07, 2016 4:43 pm

Legion wrote:[spoiler]It does not matter, super is still different, the continuity is different. Toriyama rewrite the movies for DBS and many thing are changed, like the power levels for example.

In the previous episodes we saw Black Goku WRECKED Goku, Vegeta and Trunks and do you really think that before the training for the Universe 6/7 tournament Goku and Vegeta can beat Beerus? come on :wink: In Frieza arc actually, Whis stated Beerus was a mountain and Goku was a mere tree. The difference is clear.[/spoiler]
[spoiler]Still, I don't think the arc should be taken over the movie. Based on Whis' line, Super Saiyan Blue Vegetto should be above Beerus, and from what we saw in Super Episode 66's preview (which isn't enough to do this, but I'm doing it anyway), Merged Zamasu is pretty on par with Vegetto, and thus is also stronger than Beerus.

Exactly, he did wreck them, which is why I also believe that Goku Black is stronger than Beerus.[/spoiler]
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Legion » Mon Nov 07, 2016 4:50 pm

Anime Kitten wrote:
Legion wrote:[spoiler]It does not matter, super is still different, the continuity is different. Toriyama rewrite the movies for DBS and many thing are changed, like the power levels for example.

In the previous episodes we saw Black Goku WRECKED Goku, Vegeta and Trunks and do you really think that before the training for the Universe 6/7 tournament Goku and Vegeta can beat Beerus? come on :wink: In Frieza arc actually, Whis stated Beerus was a mountain and Goku was a mere tree. The difference is clear.[/spoiler]
[spoiler]Still, I don't think the arc should be taken over the movie. Based on Whis' line, Super Saiyan Blue Vegetto should be above Beerus, and from what we saw in Super Episode 66's preview (which isn't enough to do this, but I'm doing it anyway), Merged Zamasu is pretty on par with Vegetto, and thus is also stronger than Beerus.

Exactly, he did wreck them, which is why I also believe that Goku Black is stronger than Beerus.[/spoiler]
[spoiler]Again, that line is irrelevant. Trust me. Others people they'll tell you the same thing.

Mh, i know that everyone has their own opinion, but there is no way that Black Goku is stronger than Beerus .-.[/spoiler]

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Zamasu55 » Mon Nov 07, 2016 5:07 pm

Anime Kitten wrote:
Legion wrote:[spoiler]It does not matter, super is still different, the continuity is different. Toriyama rewrite the movies for DBS and many thing are changed, like the power levels for example.

In the previous episodes we saw Black Goku WRECKED Goku, Vegeta and Trunks and do you really think that before the training for the Universe 6/7 tournament Goku and Vegeta can beat Beerus? come on :wink: In Frieza arc actually, Whis stated Beerus was a mountain and Goku was a mere tree. The difference is clear.[/spoiler]
[spoiler]Still, I don't think the arc should be taken over the movie. Based on Whis' line, Super Saiyan Blue Vegetto should be above Beerus, and from what we saw in Super Episode 66's preview (which isn't enough to do this, but I'm doing it anyway), Merged Zamasu is pretty on par with Vegetto, and thus is also stronger than Beerus.

Exactly, he did wreck them, which is why I also believe that Goku Black is stronger than Beerus.[/spoiler]
SsjR Black stronger than Beerus? Why not Super Trunks then?

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Anime Kitten » Mon Nov 07, 2016 5:49 pm

Zamasu55 wrote:SsjR Black stronger than Beerus? Why not Super Trunks then?
Yeah, I'd say he could be too. He got some lucky shots in at first, but he put up an okay fight later on. This "Beerus is stronger than everyone in the Universe except Whis" junk is annoying. He needs to be surpassed already, and we have much evidence supporting he has been. Retcons are all that stop us.
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by ryan1227 » Mon Nov 07, 2016 6:19 pm

Full Power Golden Frieza VS SSJ with blue god Ki Future Trunks (as of DBS Episode 64 only; no sword)
Future Trunks was capable of fighting evenly with a powered up SSJ Rose Black, who can wreck SSJ Blue's. Trunks would win even without taking Freeza's stamina problems into account.
Nappa VS 3 Warrior-type Namekians (those 3, each with power levels around 3000, that were slaughtered by Dodoria)
I have Nappa at at least 6000, so he'll slaughter them all imo.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Legion » Mon Nov 07, 2016 6:55 pm

Anime Kitten wrote:
Zamasu55 wrote:SsjR Black stronger than Beerus? Why not Super Trunks then?
Yeah, I'd say he could be too. He got some lucky shots in at first, but he put up an okay fight later on. This "Beerus is stronger than everyone in the Universe except Whis" junk is annoying. He needs to be surpassed already, and we have much evidence supporting he has been. Retcons are all that stop us.
No, Black and Trunks (seriously?) are not stronger than Beerus, no doubt about this. If Black and Trunks they were stronger, it will be told.

After the training, Vegeta was>/=Black. Toriyama said that Goku/Vegeta will not pass Beerus anytime soon, and he has no plan for this.
When Toriyama said that Beerus>>Goku/Vegeta, in that interview he talked about future Trunks and hinted the new enemy (Black). He had already written the Black Goku's arc. And nothing suggests that he changed his mind. For the sake of plot, i doubt that Toriyama wants anyone on Beerus' level or above at this point besides the Angels and the other Gods (about the fusions i wait the next episodes, but the fusions are different thing), for now.

It can be annoying (not for me anyway, i don't care if Beerus is surpassed or no. Is always a neutral character that Toriyama keeps away from Goku's problems), but it does not change anything.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by TheUltimateNinja » Mon Nov 07, 2016 7:52 pm

Also, the reason Black is currently in Trunks' timeline is because he doesn't want to deal with Beerus, if he was stronger than him he would have no reason to fear him.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Smilodon » Mon Nov 07, 2016 8:10 pm

New fights:

Dancing fusion (Kid Goku + Kid Kuririn) pre training vs Muten Roshi (No ki blasts allowed for both) ?
Bora vs Gyumao ?
Nam vs Yamcha (both from 21th budokai) ?
King Chapa (from 23th budokai) vs Kuririn (from 21th budokai) ?
Videl (after training with Gohan) vs Yamcha (first appear) ?
Satan vs Kid Kuririn (first appear) ?
Young King Daimao vs Tien + Roshi (both from 22th budokai) (Dancing fusion) ?
Android 17 vs Tien + Kuririn (Potara fusion) ?
General Blue vs Chiaotzu (22th budokai) ?
Goku + Piccolo (potara fusion, when they fought Raditz) vs Vegeta (first time in earth) ?
Majin Vegeta + Supreme Kai (potara fusion) vs Mystic Gohan ?
Vegetto (who fought Super Boo) vs Super Boo + Mystic Gohan (Potara fusion haha) ?
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Noah » Mon Nov 07, 2016 8:15 pm

Zamasu55 wrote:Base form Frieza (post training) stomped Ssj Gohan (as strong as Ultimate Gohan). This puts him at Buuhan level at least. His final form rivals Goku's Beyond God state, which is far above Ssj3 Vegito (BOG).
Er... No. Gohan was stated to be way weaker than before, needing to transform into SSJ to reach his full power that should be still below his peak in Boo Arc.
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by DBZAOTA482 » Mon Nov 07, 2016 8:38 pm

Smilodon wrote:New fights:

Dancing fusion (Kid Goku + Kid Kuririn) pre training vs Muten Roshi (No ki blasts allowed for both) ?
Bora vs Gyumao ?
Nam vs Yamcha (both from 21th budokai) ?
King Chapa (from 23th budokai) vs Kuririn (from 21th budokai) ?
Videl (after training with Gohan) vs Yamcha (first appear) ?
Satan vs Kid Kuririn (first appear) ?
Young King Daimao vs Tien + Roshi (both from 22th budokai) (Dancing fusion) ?
Android 17 vs Tien + Kuririn (Potara fusion) ?
General Blue vs Chiaotzu (22th budokai) ?
Goku + Piccolo (potara fusion, when they fought Raditz) vs Vegeta (first time in earth) ?
Majin Vegeta + Supreme Kai (potara fusion) vs Mystic Gohan ?
Vegetto (who fought Super Boo) vs Super Boo + Mystic Gohan (Potara fusion haha) ?
Gokillin stomps
Gyumao probably
Nam whoops Yamcha's ass
King Chappa one-shots
Yamcha sees girl and faints (he would stomp otherwise)
Krillin whoops Mr. Satan's ass
Daimao still murderstomps
Probably the fusion
Chiaotzu kicks Blue's bitch-ass
Probably the fusion
Gohan still stomps
The fusion stomps
fadeddreams5 wrote:
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:... Haven't we already gotten these in GT? Goku dies, the DBs go away, and the Namekian DBs most likely won't be used again because of the Evil Dragons.
Goku didn't die in GT. The show sucked him off so much, it was impossible to keep him in the world of the living, so he ascended beyond mortality.
jjgp1112 wrote: Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:31 am I'm just about done with the concept of reboots and making shows that were products of their time and impactful "new and sexy" and in line with modern tastes and sensibilities. Let stuff stay in their era and give today's kids their own shit to watch.

I always side eye the people who say "Now my kids/today's kids can experience what I did as a child!" Nigga, who gives a fuck about your childhood? You're an adult now and it was at least 15 years ago. Let the kids have their own experience instead of picking at a corpse.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Angelus » Mon Nov 07, 2016 9:14 pm

Smilodon wrote:New fights:

Dancing fusion (Kid Goku + Kid Kuririn) pre training vs Muten Roshi (No ki blasts allowed for both) ?
Bora vs Gyumao ?
Nam vs Yamcha (both from 21th budokai) ?
King Chapa (from 23th budokai) vs Kuririn (from 21th budokai) ?
Videl (after training with Gohan) vs Yamcha (first appear) ?
Satan vs Kid Kuririn (first appear) ?
Young King Daimao vs Tien + Roshi (both from 22th budokai) (Dancing fusion) ?
Android 17 vs Tien + Kuririn (Potara fusion) ?
General Blue vs Chiaotzu (22th budokai) ?
Goku + Piccolo (potara fusion, when they fought Raditz) vs Vegeta (first time in earth) ?
Majin Vegeta + Supreme Kai (potara fusion) vs Mystic Gohan ?
Vegetto (who fought Super Boo) vs Super Boo + Mystic Gohan (Potara fusion haha) ?
That's a lot of matches! :crazy:

Goku/Krillin fusion wins. Fusion dance is a big boost.
Probably Ox King. He was trained by Roshi after all. It's a toss up though
Nam. I asked this versus before and most answered Nam because Nam actually gave Goku a little trouble while Yamcha got blasted out of the ring easily by Roshi. Roshi and Goku are near equals at this point.
Chappa, easily. Roshi, Yamcha, and Krillin at the 22nd WMAT already thought that Chappa would be a challenge to Goku at first. How much more if it's a 21st WMAT Krillin.
Yamcha gets a new forced girlfriend. :twisted:
Krillin wasn't superhuman (by DB standards) yet at this point. Even if we include filler feats for Satan, I'd say Krillin wins this with little difficulty. Satan isn't even durable enough to take a bullet from a handgun but Krillin was already durable enough to get bruises from Launch's submachine gun.
Tien and Roshi fusion win. The fusion dance is a big boost. Even if it just tripled the fused person's power, it's more than enough considering Start of Z power levels were around the 400 range.
Chiaotzu easily. Organic Tao one-shotted Blue. Post-Tower climb Goku beat Tao. That's before he trained for 3 years for the 22nd WMAT. Krillin was able to keep up with "match-level" Goku. That's the same Krillin that beat Chiaotzu.
Goku-Piccolo potara wins with extreme difficulty. Potara is an even bigger boost than fusion dance. More so if it's the anime Potara. Plus there's a rival boost.
Not sure about the last 2 matches.

Damn that's a lot of matches XD

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by AvatarReiko » Mon Nov 07, 2016 10:25 pm

KKx10 SSJB Goku vs Zamasu Black

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by DanielSSJ » Mon Nov 07, 2016 10:49 pm

Smilodon wrote:New fights:

Dancing fusion (Kid Goku + Kid Kuririn) pre training vs Muten Roshi (No ki blasts allowed for both) ?
Bora vs Gyumao ?
Nam vs Yamcha (both from 21st Budokai) ?
King Chapa (from 23rd Budokai) vs Kuririn (from 21st Budokai) ?
Videl (after training with Gohan) vs Yamcha (first appear) ?
Satan vs Kid Kuririn (first appear) ?
Young King Daimao vs Tien + Roshi (both from 22nd Budokai) (Dancing fusion) ?
Android 17 vs Tien + Kuririn (Potara fusion) ?
General Blue vs Chiaotzu (22nd Budokai) ?
Goku + Piccolo (potara fusion, when they fought Raditz) vs Vegeta (first time in earth) ?
Majin Vegeta + Supreme Kai (potara fusion) vs Mystic Gohan ?
Vegetto (who fought Super Boo) vs Super Boo + Mystic Gohan (Potara fusion haha) ?
- Well, the Fusion Dance should be impossible for them, seeing how Goku's a lot stronger than Kuririn and none of the main cast (except Muten Roshi) have the Ki control to suppress their power. However, if Goku and Kuririn fused through Potara, I would assume that they'd get pretty strong, especially considering the composite character Goririn would technically be a Earthling/Saiyan hybrid. They'd get at least as strong as Goku was during the 21st Tenkaichi Budokai, if not stronger. Without access to his Ki attacks, Muten Roshi would likely fall to his younger and physically stronger opponent.
- Tough one considering we don't have much of an idea of either fighters' capabilities. I guess I'll give credit to the Ox King for being Muten Roshi's number 2 disciple and say that he wins.
- While Namu was at a disadvantage against Goku, he did at least put up a fight against him. Jackie Chun (who was about even with Goku) handled Yamcha like a baby. Namu almost assuredly wins that match.
- Even Muten Roshi was worried about Goku's chances against Chapa, and that was after Goku had trained with Karin. While I think he's a tad overrated by some of the folks over here, he's way beyond any of the 21st Tenkaichi Budokai crowd (excepting Muten Roshi's Powered-Up state), and kicks Kuririn six ways to Sunday.
- Videl is likely a lot weaker than Yamcha, but this version of Yamcha has a severe girl phobia, so he's rendered catatonic by Videl's very presence, so she automatically wins.
- Somehow I doubt that Mr. Satan could take a Saber-Toothed Tiger in a fight, so I'd say Kuririn wins.
- Assuming Tenshinhan can suppress his power, I'd say that Tenten Roshinhan(?) would be at least on par with Kami if not stronger, so Piccolo Daimao is boned.
- There's a sizable power gap between Kuririn ans Tenshinhan, so they aren't an optimal pairing for fusion. At best, I'd say that they get up to 50% Freeza and get wasted by any of the Androids.
- Chiaotzu has an enormous power advantage and probably has stronger psychic powers too. Blue loses badly.
- There's no way that Vegeta and Kaioshin are a optimal pairing for Fusion. Not only is there a sizable power gap any way you look at it, you have a pacifistic inept god merging with a blood-thirsty battle-driven Saiyan whose evil tendencies are being brought to the forefront. Vegeshin gets wrecked.
- Gohan and Evil Boo are somewhat similar in power, but that's about it. They have vastly differing mindsets and biology. They're a more than a match for Vegetto... at Super Saiyan 1. If Vegetto can go SS2 or SS3, he wins easily.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by DBZAOTA482 » Mon Nov 07, 2016 11:43 pm

Videl vs. Catwoman
SSJB Vegetto vs. Zamoku Black(Goku Black + Zamasu potara fusion)
Janemba vs. Kid Boo
Goten vs. Pan
fadeddreams5 wrote:
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:... Haven't we already gotten these in GT? Goku dies, the DBs go away, and the Namekian DBs most likely won't be used again because of the Evil Dragons.
Goku didn't die in GT. The show sucked him off so much, it was impossible to keep him in the world of the living, so he ascended beyond mortality.
jjgp1112 wrote: Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:31 am I'm just about done with the concept of reboots and making shows that were products of their time and impactful "new and sexy" and in line with modern tastes and sensibilities. Let stuff stay in their era and give today's kids their own shit to watch.

I always side eye the people who say "Now my kids/today's kids can experience what I did as a child!" Nigga, who gives a fuck about your childhood? You're an adult now and it was at least 15 years ago. Let the kids have their own experience instead of picking at a corpse.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Anime Kitten » Mon Nov 07, 2016 11:51 pm

DBZAOTA482 wrote:SSJB Vegetto vs. Zamoku Black(Goku Black + Zamasu potara fusion)

Goten vs. Pan
The episode hasn't aired yet, so we don't know who's stronger. Also, "Zamoku Black" is named "Merged Zamasu" (Herms' translation), or "Fusion Zamasu" (simulcast's translation).

Which versions of these two?
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Tue Nov 08, 2016 2:14 am

I've got one: Ginyu/Tagoma vs. Frost
Cool stuff that I upload here because Youtube will copyright claim it: https://vimeo.com/user60967147

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