Discussion, generally of an in-universe nature, regarding any aspect of the franchise (including movies, spin-offs, etc.) such as: techniques, character relationships, internal back-history, its universe, and more.
Cardle grave wrote:Movie 11 and Movie 12 are both different universe
Nope, we see Bio-Warriors (from Movie 11) in Movie 12. Basically, we see villains from all the DBZ Movies (except for Movies 6 & 7), so it's safe to assume that all the movies take place in the same universe.
I didn't see them, And if Bio warriors can go to hell then wouldn't it be Bio broly making trouble in Hell ?
MDSTSSJ wrote:
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:
Finally, it makes me wonder why would Super Saiyan 3 Goku would need Paikuhan's help against Broli in Movie 11... Could it be that Broli is around Super Saiyan 3 Goku's level?
Bubbles tells Kakarotto that Kaio Sama want him to go with Paikuhan to stop Broly because he is causing disaster on Earth.
That comment is like Movie 12 when Dai Kaio tells Goku and Paikuhan to go to Enma Daioh World to see what happens and all we know what happen next ( Janemba is stronger than Broly, Super Janemba is way way stronger than Broly ).
Plan to Eradicate the Super Saiyans Goku says that maybe the Hatchiyack is stronger than Broly but, Gohan is not even a SSJ2.
Broly is not even close to a SSJ3 level. Is far far behind.
That impossible because he efforts with SSj2 beat Kid buu and Fat buu in Both Anime and manga. Not to mention the Family Kamehameha is capable of Killing a SSJ3 and yet he didn't die form it. If SSj3 Tiers guy cant do what broly done then i dont see how any SSj2 is going to come close
Going by efforts
Broly 3 Shot SSj2 gohan
Janemba 2 Shot SSj2 Vegeta
Kid buu 12 shot SSj2 Vegeta in manga /Anime he spent more then 10 mins trying to knock him out
Fat buu Much much much more hits then any of the those 3
Match times
janemba 30 Secs or Below
Broly 1:20
Kid buu More then 10 Mins
Fat buu Tooks a while more then either of them
That impossible because he efforts with SSj2 beat Kid buu and Fat buu in Both Anime and manga. Not to mention the Family Kamehameha is capable of Killing a SSJ3 and yet he didn't die form it. If SSj3 Tiers guy cant do what broly done then i dont see how any SSj2 is going to come close
Going by efforts
Broly 3 Shot SSj2 gohan
Janemba 2 Shot SSj2 Vegeta
Kid buu 12 shot SSj2 Vegeta in manga /Anime he spent more then 10 mins trying to knock him out
Fat buu Much much much more hits then any of the those 3
Match times
janemba 30 Secs or Below
Broly 1:20
Kid buu More then 10 Mins
Fat buu Tooks a while more then either of them
"That impossible because he efforts with SSj2 beat Kid buu and Fat buu in Both Anime and manga"? Okay, what does this sentence even mean?
No, it's nowhere close to being able to kill a SS3. Any SS3 tier can one shot Broly with complete ease, as well as a few SS2 tiers (Fat Buu) and Majin Vegeta or SPC could easily do what Broly did.
Buu and Janemba toy with their enemies. Both of them are stronger than Goku, so they would one shot Vegeta if they actually wanted to.
Broly's biggest, most impressive feat is beating (can we even really call it that? He got smacked around and tossed into lava then lost a beam struggle) the absolute weakest, least skilled, and least experienced SS2 after said SS2 had already been heavily injured in a Toei base warm up fight. Big whoop.
Honestly, this is one of the dumbest cases of Broly wank I've ever seen. I really thought that Kanzenshuu was beyond this sort of thing ("BROLY IS SS3 TIER! NO WAIT, HE'S NOT, HE'S DONE SHIT SS3 TIER GUYS COULDN'T HOPE TO DO IN THEIR WET DREAMS!").
The Monkey King wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:
dbgtFO wrote:
Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.
"That impossible because he efforts with SSj2 beat Kid buu and Fat buu in Both Anime and manga"? Okay, what does this sentence even mean?
- It means Broly beat a SSj2 faster then Kid buu, Broly beat gohan in 3 hits while Kid buu beat Vegeta in 12 hits
No, it's nowhere close to being able to kill a SS3. Any SS3 tier can one shot Broly with complete ease, and Majin Vegeta or SPC could easily do what Broly did.
- Really, Janemba who shit on SSj3 goku couldn't one shot Vegeta, So how can a Much weaker SSj3 tier guy one shot ?. And No neither majin vegeta or SPC can do what broly done. Unless the gap between Kid buu and Vegeta is smaller then SSj2 adult gohan and majin vegeta.
Buu and Janemba toy with their enemies. Both of them are stronger than Goku, so they would one shot Vegeta if they actually wanted to.
- So did Broly, Broly Tanking punches smiling. And Another mistake Buu is not stronger then Goku. And No if they wanted to one shot Vegeta then they would of done it. I could say the same thing for broly if i wanted. To put assumptions with nothing backing it up
Broly's biggest, most impressive feat is beating (can we even really call it that? He got smacked around and tossed into lava then lost a beam struggle) the absolute weakest, least skilled, and least experienced SS2 after said SS2 had already been heavily injured in a Toei base warm up fight. Big whoop.
- Bud are you high or something, he crushes Gohan in 3 hits. he tanked him useless you want to show me another video of a guy tanking and 3 shotting a SSj2 then go for it. Gohan said he powered up not get weaker. And his skilled in movie 10 as he quickly knew lava was the only way to beat broly whille in manga/Anime he was clueless against a much weaker foe
Honestly, this is one of the dumbest cases of Broly wank I've ever seen. I really thought that Kanzenshuu was beyond this sort of thing ("BROLY IS SS3 TIER! NO WAIT, HE'S NOT, HE'S DONE SHIT SS3 TIER GUYS COULDN'T HOPE TO DO IN THEIR WET DREAMS!").[/quote]
- Seriously your argument is pretty stupid, So what else do you want to add. 3 Shot a SSJ2 is not impressive -.- i guess no one fights in DBZ are impressive
Not impressive -.-
I don't think i had ever seen Someone Smile harder after tanking a punch ?
To comment on Broly, comparing him to Kid Boo is ridiculous. Kid Boo has shown to toy with his enemies so it doesn't matter how long it took him. The Cell jr's could have downed the Z fighters a lot quicker if they tried.
I still have no placement for Broly. But Gohan doesn't seem close at all.
From Daizenshuu 6
However, he is pushed back by Broli's overwhelming power. From there, Gohan executes a strategy to make Broli fall into lava.
But Kuririn rescues Gohan, who had used up all his strength and was about to be swallowed up by the lava. However, Broli is still alive!
While Gohan escapes this crisis through Videl's aid, Broli continues attacking him all the more. Gohan and Goten then combine their power, and fire a Kamehameha at Broli with the last of their strength!
Even Gohan and Goten's Kamehameha doesn't bother Broli. As the two of them feel that they have lost the battle, the supposedly dead Goku appears before them. At Goku's encouragement, Gohan and Goten power up. Goku assists as well, and as they fire a three-man father and son Kamehameha, Broli is finally obliterated.
If they were close in power then how come Broly isn't even exhausted at all and Gohan is basically out of power? If they were close then Broly should be exhausted and show some fatigue, but he doesn't. It's hard to use Gohan breaking out when Videl was able to budge Broly (in SSJ) and even dodge him (movie has bullshit moments).
On the other side we have Gohan and Goten using what little power they have left and with Goku's help they overcome Broly. So you have a weaker Gohan and Goten and a Full Goku who overcome Broly who didn't seem to lose much ki or seem tired at all.
That's what I see from both sides. I have Broly at lowest weaker then SPC and at highest Stronger then the SSJ2's, but not close to any form of Boo at all or SSJ3 Goku.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
if i went by Anime, Kid buu would not be Toying after Vegeta kept on getting back up. In Manga you have a case but the same thing apply s for Broly. He Toyed with Gohan as well. He didn't even take him serious. He was More interested in Holding his head down into the rocks then Punching and kicking like Kid buu or what he did to goku in the end of the movie 8.
What, Cell Jnr they couldn't even down yamacha, Tien and Piccolo. And
Cardle grave wrote:if i went by Anime, Kid buu would not be Toying after Vegeta kept on getting back up. In Manga you have a case but the same thing apply s for Broly. He Toyed with Gohan as well. He didn't even take him serious. He was More interested in Holding his head down into the rocks then Punching and kicking like Kid buu or what he did to goku in the end of the movie 8.
What, Cell Jnr they couldn't even down yamacha, Tenshinhan and Piccolo
So that Statement is form Daizenshuu 6 ?
The Cell Jrs were holding back most of if not the whole time, the only reason the humans weren't instantly killed is because the Jr's wanted to play. Broly I doubt was going for the kill right away, but he did seem to exert more effort on Gohan as he would get angry from time to time unlike in Movie 8.
Also if Kid Boo went all out on Vegeta he would be dead. We are talking about an SSJ2 tier, fighting an SSJ3 tier. Same thing happens when Kid Boo toys with Mr. Boo.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
Cardle grave wrote:if i went by Anime, Kid buu would not be Toying after Vegeta kept on getting back up. In Manga you have a case but the same thing apply s for Broly. He Toyed with Gohan as well. He didn't even take him serious. He was More interested in Holding his head down into the rocks then Punching and kicking like Kid buu or what he did to goku in the end of the movie 8.
What, Cell Jnr they couldn't even down yamacha, Tenshinhan and Piccolo
So that Statement is form Daizenshuu 6 ?
The Cell Jrs were holding back most of if not the whole time, the only reason the humans weren't instantly killed is because the Jr's wanted to play. Broly I doubt was going for the kill right away, but he did seem to exert more effort on Gohan as he would get angry from time to time unlike in Movie 8.
Also if Kid Boo went all out on Vegeta he would be dead. We are talking about an SSJ2 tier, fighting an SSJ3 tier. Same thing happens when Kid Boo toys with Mr. Boo.
Either that or the fact that good guys done die so easily, Yeah but the result was better then movie 8, he 3 shot Gohan in Movie 10 while in Movie 8 he i think 4 shot him and that tank he done against SSj2 Gohan was far more better then Gohan tank on Full power perfect cell and Most tanks in Movie 8. You Can tell when Broly puts effort into what he does since his facial changes as like what he did to Goku towards the end of Movie 8 and i didn't see much of that in movie 10.
Look if went by Anime Kid buu then this wouldn't really be debatable, But i understand if you don't have him Kid buu level or SSj3 goku. I too find it hard to take him seriously since he crushed everyone 1 on 1 in 1-5 shots and Never had a challenge nor vs Someone the level above or Neither died against Someone 1 on 1.
If i had to rank to him
Lowest i would go is Grey buu level, Highest would be SSj3 goku level and Middle would be Fat buu level. But i usually put him Fat buu level based on the fact that Fat buu best attack the Angry explosion didnt take out Majin Vegeta but it also depends on what SSj2 he vs. if he vs a weak SSj2 then Grey buu. An Average SSj2 then Fat buu or a Strong SSj2 then SSj3 goku
Last edited by Cardle grave on Fri Jun 07, 2013 9:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
TheMightyOzaru wrote:
Your problem is that you think that these hidden powers have end limits. You think Goku can never surpass Gohan because his hidden potential is greater than Goku's. While Gohan's is greater, Goku can still train to increase his potential. If Gohan trained just as much as Goku, Gohan would remain superior till the end up time, problem is he doesn't and he lets that superior potential rot while Goku continues to increase his own. If something small continues to grow while something big remains the same, the small will surpass the big.
I like a lot that explanation but personally I have my doubts about U. Gohan.
Saiyans age much slower than humans. Advantage over hybrids to gain more power in time. When Hibryds begin to age, Saiyans still have left enough time to grow their powers.
Only a few times Adult Kakarotto traininig was normal. The rest of his training was in special conditions. In BoG´s time we see Goku training in the Otherworld and that place is special to achieve more power in less time.
Birusu tells kakarotto he has immeasurable latent power and may one day become a formidable foe for real. Inmesurable for me is unlimited. That statement contradicts in some way about Hybrids hidden unlimited powers.
Cardle grave wrote:Either that or the fact that good guys done die so easily, Yeah but the result was better then movie 8, he 3 shot Gohan in Movie 10 while in Movie 8 he i think 4 shot him and that tank he done against SSj2 Gohan was far more better then Gohan tank on Full power perfect cell and Most tanks in Movie 8. You Can tell when Broly puts effort into what he does since his facial changes as like what he did to Goku towards the end of Movie 8 and i didn't see much of that in movie 10.
Look if went by Anime Kid buu then this wouldn't really be debatable, But i understand if you don't have him Kid buu level or SSj3 goku. I too find it hard to take him seriously since he crushed everyone 1 on 1 in 1-5 shots and Never had a challenge nor vs Someone the level above or Neither died against Someone 1 on 1.
If i had to rank to him
Lowest i would go is Grey buu level, Highest would be SSj3 goku level and Middle would be Fat buu level. But i usually put him Fat buu level based on the fact that Fat buu best attack the Angry explosion didnt take out Majin Vegeta
I would say the Cell Jr's hold back. Especially when Cell says they can stop playing around and kill them. Right after that 16 dies and Gohan goes SSJ2.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
Cardle grave wrote:I think that was more to Get gohan more angry, Trying to play with his mind but yeah it could be true
Cell also says Vegeta and Trunks are the only one who can hold their own. So it's pretty obvious the Cell Jr's aren't going all out.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
Are you really comparing people in movies to anime/manga moments due to how long they survived a struggle? That's like comparing a dog and cat fight with a tank vs a car.
Woah waoh waoh waoh... Are we seriously comparing Broly to Buu? Buu would buttf**** Broly into oblivion....
Vegeta: "Funny... I seem to recall Kakarot being fed the same information right before he transformed; the distinct look on your faces when he went Super Saiyan didn't exactly inspire confidence. One does not predict or calculate power like ours." Youtube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/ThePrinceOfSaiyajins My 3DS Friend Code:
2707-1669-7946
TheMightyOzaru wrote:Woah waoh waoh waoh... Are we seriously comparing Broly to Buu? Buu would buttf**** Broly into oblivion....
Well Boo can stretch his body parts soooo maybe....I said too much.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
TheMightyOzaru wrote:Woah waoh waoh waoh... Are we seriously comparing Broly to Buu? Buu would buttf**** Broly into oblivion....
Rocketman wrote:
TheMightyOzaru wrote:
Rocketman wrote:And what magical training can Goku do that plumps his base up higher than fusing with Vegeta?
Just training... There aren't end limits in Dragon Ball. It's also not just training, it's transformations as well.
Saiyan arc Goku and Vegeta fuse. 8,000 x 18,000 = 144,000,000...which is stronger than Goku's base in BoG.
COINCIDENCE???
Who says fusion works like that? Only Vegetto is described as Goku x Vegeta and even then the SEG goes further saying it's LIKE multiplication. It's not necessarily exactly.
Vegeta: "Funny... I seem to recall Kakarot being fed the same information right before he transformed; the distinct look on your faces when he went Super Saiyan didn't exactly inspire confidence. One does not predict or calculate power like ours." Youtube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/ThePrinceOfSaiyajins My 3DS Friend Code:
2707-1669-7946
TheMightyOzaru wrote:Woah waoh waoh waoh... Are we seriously comparing Broly to Buu? Buu would buttf**** Broly into oblivion....
Bud Prepare to be surprise because 1 day Toei is going to give him is level, And seeing how far he ranks him in game. Never said 1 negative thing about him and Crush everyone in his path.
TheMightyOzaru wrote:Woah waoh waoh waoh... Are we seriously comparing Broly to Buu? Buu would buttf**** Broly into oblivion....
Bud Prepare to be surprise because 1 day Toei is going to give him is level, And seeing how far he ranks him in game. Never said 1 negative thing about him and Crush everyone in his path.
This Broly wank. Holy cow.
One thing I need to ask is, do we even know Goku was there at the fight? Maybe he was helping them on in spirit like the Cell vs Gohan fight. And obviously Gohan + Goten were extremely drained. He couldn't push back a simple weakened kamehameha. Couldn't cancel it out, couldn't repel it, nothing. I don't see him anywhere NEAR half of SSJ3 tier.
