Would Z have been as successful on US TV if JPN BGM was kept

[Dbzfan94]

The fact the show still managed to remain popular after season 3 (despite amateur VAs and musicians taking over) is testament to how popular the first two seasons were and what kind of impression they left on everyone. If the show started with Faulconer, 1999 Sabat and 1999 Schemmel in season 1 then the show would have been less popular on CN. The first two seasons were very professionally made, despite the censorship. Faulconer's music coming in represents the point when it became an amateur, non-professional operation, and his music leaving in 2003 represents the point when the dub started to get professional again.

Ocean was pretty much just as professionally done as Funimation was in the beginning. Just like it wasn't the Funimation dub that made Z popular, it wasn't ocean either. It was the show itself. If Funimation started with Schemmel, Sabat, and al the rest from the beginning it would be equally as popular as the characters, action, etc is what made the show popular.

[Kakacarrottop]

The fact the show still managed to remain popular after season 3 (despite amateur VAs and musicians taking over) is testament to how popular the first two seasons were and what kind of impression they left on everyone. If the show started with Faulconer, 1999 Sabat and 1999 Schemmel in season 1 then the show would have been less popular on CN. The first two seasons were very professionally made, despite the censorship. Faulconer's music coming in represents the point when it became an amateur, non-professional operation, and his music leaving in 2003 represents the point when the dub started to get professional again.

Ocean was pretty much just as professionally done as Funimation was in the beginning.

The Ocean dub of the first two seasons were made with professional union actors from Vancouver (a Canadian equivalent to Hollywood) who have appeared in many other anime, cartoons, TV shows and movies. The composer (Levy) made music for over 130 shows in total (a world record). Compare that to the in-house FUNi dub for the rest of the series that was made with non-union actors with no prior acting experience, and with a composer who had done nothing prior to DBZ and who was being backed by a team of school students. Can't get more unprofessional than that.

[UltimateHammerBro]

Ocean was pretty much just as professionally done as Funimation was in the beginning. Just like it wasn't the Funimation dub that made Z popular, it wasn't ocean either. It was the show itself. If Funimation started with Schemmel, Sabat, and al the rest from the beginning it would be equally as popular as the characters, action, etc is what made the show popular.

The Ocean dub of the first two seasons were made with professional union actors from Vancouver (a Canadian equivalent to Hollywood) who have appeared in many other anime, cartoons, TV shows and movies. The composer (Levy) made music for over 130 shows in total (a world record). Compare that to the in-house FUNi dub for the rest of the series that was made with non-union actors with no prior acting experience, and with a composer who had done nothing prior to DBZ and who was being backed by a team of school students. Can't get more unprofessional than that.

While I agree with Kakacarrottop, I understand Dbzfan94's point too.
IMO, it's not the voices or the music which make a show popular, it's the show itself: its story, its characters, the action...
You could have a series with an amazing score and the best voice actors ever, but if the series itself sucks, the series will suck too.

And this comes from someone who loves both scores for different reasons.

Spoiler:

For the record, I love the Kikuchi score as music and BGM for Dragon Ball.
While I don't think that the Faulconer score fits Dragon Ball, I also appreciate it for being (again, IMO) good techno music on its own right.

[ABED]

There are light hearted tracks for light hearted scenes.

Like "Bulma and the Frog" - easily one of the worst bits of score Faulconer ever came up with.

[Kakacarrottop]

There are light hearted tracks for light hearted scenes.

Even the Ocean scores (Both Levy score and recycled Megaman score) had better light hearted music than Faulconer did.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZ6BjnB-YHw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7CbXx_hTxM

His score only excelled in grand moments like in a Super Saiyan transformation. Faulconer's light hearted music sounds like a cat getting hold of a keyboard.

[DBZAOTA482]

There are light hearted tracks for light hearted scenes.

Like "Bulma and the Frog" - easily one of the worst bits of score Faulconer ever came up with.

Bulma and the Frog itself is one of the things to ever happen in anime period.

[Dbzfan94]

There are light hearted tracks for light hearted scenes.

Even the Ocean scores (Both Levy score and recycled Megaman score) had better light hearted music than Faulconer did.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZ6BjnB-YHw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7CbXx_hTxM

His score only excelled in grand moments like in a Super Saiyan transformation. Faulconer's light hearted music sounds like a cat getting hold of a keyboard.

There's honestly no need to be an asshole about your preference. I don't agree with you at all, but you don't see me attacking your opinion.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMSfUvNvIl0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJGyk7Tlves
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGzSbMr8dFk

There's another one but I cant remember the name of it.

EDIT: Bulma and the Frog isn't bad, it's just that it's like 5 tracks messed together.

[fadeddreams5]

There are light hearted tracks for light hearted scenes.

Like "Bulma and the Frog" - easily one of the worst bits of score Faulconer ever came up with.

That's one of the songs that plays (or parts of it anyways) every single scene there should be some modicum of silence. I don't consider it bad on its own, but its placement is pretty damn terrible. I give you that.

[Kojiro Sasaki]

Your comments have intrigued me, kei17, and I wish to ask you a question. Now, as has already been established, Dragon Ball's composer did not place the tracks in the show himself. That's fairly understandable considering that all the cues written specifically for the TV show were stock cues intended to be used repeatedly, and the others were recycled from the movies. All this I knew. However, I did assume those movie cues were scored and placed by Kikuchi. That is, they seemed like they were scored for specific scenes. But your comments in this thread that it's an industry-wide practice seem to infer that even in the movies, Kikuchi just composed pieces with no specific purpose that were later put in where deemed appropriate. Is this true?

This is what Kikuchi himself said about Dragon Ball Z:

『Z』ではサイヤ人ガ出てきて、戦いが物語の中心になっていきました。一旦敵に敗れた悟空が強くなって勝利する、というような番組の重要な部分については、特に注意して曲を書きました。

and about movies:

映画の場合は、録音前に台詞まで入ったフィルムを見せてもらえましたから、誰々のテーマというとも含めて、シーンのラップにきっちり合わせて作曲出来ました。

I cannot fully translate it and I'm not sure if I understand it correctly, but it seems that:
1. Some of tracks from the M700 series were composed for the specific scenes from the Saiyan arc. I always noticed that some early Saiyan arc scenes have extremely well fitting music placements.
2. Music for the movies was composed after everything else was already done. It's possible that Shunsuke Kikuchi composed music while watching the specific scenes.

As to the topic: I think that, as long as American kids aren't some kind of aliens, the series would be as successful with the original BGM as it was elsewhere in the world. I would risk an opinion that it might be considered by many fans to be “more epic”. When you are a kid and you watch something for the first time, you don't pay much attention to BGM. But after some time, the music and the story/action becomes “the atmosphere” and you just cannot separate one from another. As I see it: the two biggest parts of the so-called epicness are awesomeness and uniqueness. Due to the fact that Kikuchi score is extremely unique among other scores, it would have made the show more epic for some people (that's how it works for me).

After reading many posts about English version vs Japanese version, I have two things I would like to say:
1. Do not forget from where the show came from and who made it.
2. As we say in Poland: “Do not teach father how to make children”.

僕も原作を読んで大いに笑わされたくらいです。

If I understand this correctly: He even read the manga! (or episode scripts?) Did any other composer read the manga or watch the entire show?

[Kakacarrottop]

There are light hearted tracks for light hearted scenes.

Even the Ocean scores (Both Levy score and recycled Megaman score) had better light hearted music than Faulconer did.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZ6BjnB-YHw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7CbXx_hTxM

His score only excelled in grand moments like in a Super Saiyan transformation. Faulconer's light hearted music sounds like a cat getting hold of a keyboard.

There's honestly no need to be an asshole about your preference. I don't agree with you at all, but you don't see me attacking your opinion.

Pointing out his music sucks is as you said an opinion, not an "attack" on you.

[Dbzfan94]

Pointing out his music sucks is as you said an opinion, not an "attack" on you.

What I meant was that I could easily trash Levy's score (and the Megaman music used in late Ocean dub too) just as you are with Faulconer, but I'm trying to be civil about this.

[GS7X7]

After 14 pages of back and forth, why not just put it to a vote for everyone?

Q. "Would Z have been as successful on US TV if JPN BGM was kept?"

1. "Yes, equally."

2. "No, not as popular."

3. "Actually it'd have been even more popular."

[ABED]

Bulma and the Frog isn't merely badly placed, it's a horrible track that is indicative of Faulconer's scoring. He doesn't understand the character. The music conveys "airhead." Also, it's really annoying and played OVER AND OVER!

[Gaffer Tape]

Even though it's been a while, as soon as ABED named "Bulma and the Frog" I was pretty sure I knew which track it was. Just to make sure, though, I looked it up on YouTube, and... yeesh, yeah, just as terrible as I remembered. In fact, it was even worse. There is a small piece of me that is nostalgic for (original) season 3 of the dub because of how exciting it was to be 13 and have new DBZ episodes. The atmosphere was exciting. So even though I didn't like the music then, it still became associated with that time and place with me, so listening to it does bring back a little bit of nostalgia. But I swear... every damned time I managed to find a melody I was kinda enjoying, all of a sudden some obnoxious noise would just jump in! I assume this is part of the Mickey Mousing they were doing then, but, geez. If memory serves, when Mickey Mouse did it, it was part of the melody, part of the song, not random noise interrupting the song! It just felt like someone was constantly hitting some random instrument, and it just drove me crazy! So crazy I had to make this post.

Actually, does anyone remember Kurt Vonnegut's short story "Harrison Bergeron"? Where the government tried to make everyone equal by handicapping their strengths, so that smart people had devices put in their ears to intermittently produce noise and break their trains of thought? That's what it reminded me of.

[JulieYBM]

Food for thought: why do 'mainstream audiences' like Dragon Ball Z? The 'action', right? But plenty of American cartoons have action, too! Why is the action of Dragon Ball Z so loved? Because it's different from what folks usually get in American cartoons. Is not the music of Dragon Ball Z also different, just like the action? Why is this action that is different any more worthy of respect than the musical score?

[Dbzfan94]

Bulma and the Frog isn't merely badly placed, it's a horrible track that is indicative of Faulconer's scoring. He doesn't understand the character. The music conveys "airhead." Also, it's really annoying and played OVER AND OVER!

It does play a lot, at least the beginning part. The beginning part I don't mind that much but the rest is bad.
AFAIK it barely plays post Garlic Jr but I could be wrong

[ABED]

Bulma and the Frog isn't merely badly placed, it's a horrible track that is indicative of Faulconer's scoring. He doesn't understand the character. The music conveys "airhead." Also, it's really annoying and played OVER AND OVER!

It does play a lot, at least the beginning part. The beginning part I don't mind that much but the rest is bad.
AFAIK it barely plays post Garlic Jr but I could be wrong

I did noticed that it wasn't played as much if at all later on, but it was constant in season 3. I also didn't like that flute piece that played during the calmer moments like when Dende was talking to The Grand Elder.

There is a small piece of me that is nostalgic for (original) season 3 of the dub because of how exciting it was to be 13 and have new DBZ episodes. The atmosphere was exciting. So even though I didn't like the music then, it still became associated with that time and place with me, so listening to it does bring back a little bit of nostalgia.

I'm the same way. In fact I can remember nearly every detail of when I first popped the first VHS tape of season 3 in.

[Cure Dragon 255]

I found a much better question.

Would Another Non-Dragon Ball Cartoon/Anime dub be as successful with the USA score DBZ had?

DBZ sells like hotcakes no matter what. No matter the score, it has thrived. I definitely favor the Japanese score because that was the one that came with the dub that introduced me to the show. But I dont mind if people like the Faulconer or any other score. If they are RUDE or arrogant about it I'm much less tolerant. But this also goes for fans of the Japanese version. As long as you arent rude or arrogant I dont see any harm.


Toonami was also another huge factor in Dragon Ball's success. The show definitely would not have made it in the USA without them. But Toonami ALSO depended Heavily on DBZ. So it was pretty mutual I do think its Non-English Speaking international influence is a bit overstated, it does have quite the presence in Asia though. It has its OWN channel all to itself there!

[GS7X7]

Bulma and the Frog isn't merely badly placed, it's a horrible track that is indicative of Faulconer's scoring. He doesn't understand the character. The music conveys "airhead." Also, it's really annoying and played OVER AND OVER!

It does play a lot, at least the beginning part. The beginning part I don't mind that much but the rest is bad.
AFAIK it barely plays post Garlic Jr but I could be wrong

I did noticed that it wasn't played as much if at all later on, but it was constant in season 3. I also didn't like that flute piece that played during the calmer moments like when Dende was talking to The Grand Elder.

There is a small piece of me that is nostalgic for (original) season 3 of the dub because of how exciting it was to be 13 and have new DBZ episodes. The atmosphere was exciting. So even though I didn't like the music then, it still became associated with that time and place with me, so listening to it does bring back a little bit of nostalgia.

I'm the same way. In fact I can remember nearly every detail of when I first popped the first VHS tape of season 3 in.

Ya know, it would be kinda interesting if someone (or, more likely, a group of people) went to the trouble of documenting when every song plays in every episode.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vx-Z6fzf_7Q

Just wanted to post this. TBH, even had I been a lil' American kid this music really wouldn't have bothered me that much.

[Zephyr]

Food for thought: why do 'mainstream audiences' like Dragon Ball Z? The 'action', right? But plenty of American cartoons have action, too! Why is the action of Dragon Ball Z so loved? Because it's different from what folks usually get in American cartoons. Is not the music of Dragon Ball Z also different, just like the action? Why is this action that is different any more worthy of respect than the musical score?

There's more than action and music that sets Dragon Ball Z apart, I feel. Looking back the character designs and the setting played a huge role in the overall surrealness and uniqueness of the series that drew me to it at least.