Discussion regarding the entirety of the franchise in a general (meta) sense, including such aspects as: production, trends, merchandise, fan culture, and more.
Herms wrote:And part of the joke is that since she's the Ox King's daughter, it fits the bovine theme, right? Ox --> cow --> udder --> breast.
Holy shit. I never spotted that before. Well played, Toriyama.
Spoiler:
Akira Toriyama wrote:My policy is to try and forget things once they’re over. Since if I don’t discard the old and focus on what’s new, I’ll overload my brain capacity. I still haven’t lived down going, “Who the heck is Tao Pai-pai?” that one time I was talking with Ei’ichiro Oda-kun. But the fact that there are still people reading the series after all this time… All I can say is; “thank you.” Really, that’s all.
Akira Toriyama wrote:Drawing Dragon Ball again reminded me of two things--how much I love it, and how much I never want to do it again.
Kunzait_83 wrote:And if you're upset because all this new material completely invalidates the tabletop RPG rulebook-sized statistical system and flowchart for the characters' "canonical Power Levels" that you'd been working on painstakingly for the last bunch of years now... well I don't think there's a kind, non-blunt way of saying this, but that's 100% entirely your own misguided fault for buying so deeply into all this nonsensical garbage in the first place. And that you also have IMMENSELY skewed and comically backwards priorities in what you think is most important and needed to make a good Dragon Ball story.
Zephyr wrote:Goodness, they wrote idiotic drivel in a children's cartoon meant to advertise toys!? Again!? For the ninetieth episode in a row!? Somebody stop the presses! We have to voice our concern over these Super important issues!
Kamiccolo9 wrote:Fair enough, I concede. Sean Schemmel probably has some kind of hidden talent. Maybe he is an expert at Minesweeper. You're right; calling him "talentless" wasn't fair.
Michsi wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:29 amIn Super Piccolo got yelled off the stage by Vegeta in the U6 Tournament arc and lost to Jiminy Cricket in the ToP , he deserved 15 new transformations with his theme song played by Metallica in the background.
Kamiccolo9 wrote:How many planets could a planet buster bust if a planet buster could bust planets?
I'm just curious about when the "busting" terminology comes into play. You see it for the high end stuff, like galaxy and solar system busting, which makes no sense anyway since those aren't solid masses, and for smaller stuff like planets and cities and islands. Where do you draw the line?
Obviously, Hannibal Lecter is a people buster. I suppose Jack Black's character from Anchorman could be a Puppy Buster, but Baxter lives, so it's not confirmed. Power scaling would imply that Hulk Hogan could definitely be a puppy buster, but that leads to speculation, which I don't like for my busting feats.
I do find the term "-buster" to be annoying, mostly because I dislike coming up with so many new terms to describe everything. Like with "zenkai", you could just say "near death power-up", and not only is it more descriptive, but then it doesn't confuse anyone. It also extends to creating abbreviations for things. It's just confusing, and only a handful of people will likely surely know what you're talking about.
"Kenshi is sitting down right now drawing his mutated spaghetti monsters thinking he's the shit..."--Neptune Kai "90% of you here don't even know what you're talking about (there are a few that do). But the things you say about these releases are nonsense and just plain dumb. Like you Metalwario64"--final_flash
Kamiccolo9 wrote:How many planets could a planet buster bust if a planet buster could bust planets?
I'm just curious about when the "busting" terminology comes into play. You see it for the high end stuff, like galaxy and solar system busting, which makes no sense anyway since those aren't solid masses, and for smaller stuff like planets and cities and islands. Where do you draw the line?
Obviously, Hannibal Lecter is a people buster. I suppose Jack Black's character from Anchorman could be a Puppy Buster, but Baxter lives, so it's not confirmed. Power scaling would imply that Hulk Hogan could definitely be a puppy buster, but that leads to speculation, which I don't like for my busting feats.
I do find the term "-buster" to be annoying, mostly because I dislike coming up with so many new terms to describe everything. Like with "zenkai", you could just say "near death power-up", and not only is it more descriptive, but then it doesn't confuse anyone. It also extends to creating abbreviations for things. It's just confusing, and only a handful of people will likely surely know what you're talking about.
Incidentally, you reminded me to add "zenkai" to my list of annoying terms.
use of FUNimation dub spellings. Most don't bother me, but "Frieza" and "Hercule" do.
Especially the latter, because there's no such thing as an uncut dub of DBZ that DOESN'T call him "Mr Satan". The other name was clearly a censorship thing, so why people persist in calling him that is weird to me.
Also, power level fights... including "Goku Vs. Superman" Debates.
You wana know the truth about Goku vs. Superman? the eternal question actually HAS an answer, an easily verified answer based on objective facts.
Ready for it? Ready?
It depends on who is writing which era Superman in the fight. That's the answer.
Superman has been published continuously for over 75 years and counting at this point, and you can be over the years his power has fluctuated WILDLY, especially during the silver age. At one point he could blow out a star, and then at another LATER point, he was weak enough to be "Killed" by being beaten to death by a monster who had absolutely no Kryptonite on or around him.
He literally does not have a consistent upper level to his powers strength and it almost seems that his maximum shifts based on what the story at moment requires of him.
For that reason, it's literally impossible to determine who would win because the outcome would be extremely different with every different iteration of Superman and in fact, every different writer's style for writing him.
Original Debut Superman? Goku wins Easily
Silver Age Superman? Superman by a landslide
90s Era Death of Superman Superman? Close match, could go either way.
Superman The Animated Series Superman: Closer than you'd think, but Goku.
This, however, has not stopped the ETERNAL debate, and it's quite annoying to me lol.
"FUNi should take [DBZ] out behind the woodshed, give it one last treat, then blow its f%#@$ng brains out before it attacks the baby again." ~Rocketman
Metalwario64 wrote:Like with "zenkai", you could just say "near death power-up", and not only is it more descriptive, but then it doesn't confuse anyone. It also extends to creating abbreviations for things. It's just confusing, and only a handful of people will likely surely know what you're talking about.
Incidentally, you reminded me to add "zenkai" to my list of annoying terms.
Kanzenshuu should totally have a "DB fandom slang guide", explaining the origins and etymology of terms like "zenkai".
Zephyr wrote:Kanzenshuu should totally have a "DB fandom slang guide", explaining the origins and etymology of terms like "zenkai".
I've tried doing a bit of that, but it's impossible to track down the "first" usage of these types of terms (or even something resembling the first usage). I've done a lot of searching on things like alt.fan.dragonball that are preserved for all time, but ooooooold first-generation message boards are totally obliterated at this point. I'd just be doing educated guessing on certain things (like "zenkai" which would probably be accurate, but still...).
But yeah, I guess educated guesses and explanations that clearly label themselves as such is SOMETHING resembling helpful and good documentation for posterity.
:: [| Mike "VegettoEX" LaBrie |] ::
:: [| Kanzenshuu - Co-Founder/Administrator, Podcast Host, News Manager (note: our "job" titles are arbitrary and meaningless) |] ::
:: [| Website: January 1998 |] :: [| Podcast: November 2005 |] :: [| Fusion: April 2012 |] :: [| Wiki: 20XX |] ::
I wouldn't mind educated guesses actually. I like your writeups you do on a lot of other areas, like your intended endings guide, or that blog post you did explaining why "Freeza" was right over "Frieza"
You're knowledgeable enough about the fanbase and the series as a whole that I think even your educated guesses would be worthwhile.
"FUNi should take [DBZ] out behind the woodshed, give it one last treat, then blow its f%#@$ng brains out before it attacks the baby again." ~Rocketman
DemonRin wrote:use of FUNimation dub spellings. Most don't bother me, but "Frieza" and "Hercule" do.
Especially the latter, because there's no such thing as an uncut dub of DBZ that DOESN'T call him "Mr Satan". The other name was clearly a censorship thing, so why people persist in calling him that is weird to me.
The censored it because they were worried people wouldn't like the overt religious reference. Thus, it makes perfect sense for some people to prefer Hercule over his original name. Having one of the heroes be named Satan makes them uncomfortable.
And there are other reasons too. I for think Hercule is a better name for the character. The only advantage Mr. Satan has over Hercule is the fact that Mr. satan was his original name
What makes me unnecessarily irate (not really, but for the purposes of discussion here...) is when people say things like that. How is that the only advantage? Having the world be saved TWICE by someone named "Satan" gives it hysterical irony. Having them named ANYTHING ELSE removes said hysterical irony in its entirety. The joke is lost. The purpose is lost.
Satan is our savior. Our savior is named Satan. All praise be him.
:: [| Mike "VegettoEX" LaBrie |] ::
:: [| Kanzenshuu - Co-Founder/Administrator, Podcast Host, News Manager (note: our "job" titles are arbitrary and meaningless) |] ::
:: [| Website: January 1998 |] :: [| Podcast: November 2005 |] :: [| Fusion: April 2012 |] :: [| Wiki: 20XX |] ::
What makes me unnecessarily irate (not really, but for the purposes of discussion here...) is when people say things like that. How is that the only advantage? Having the world be saved TWICE by someone named "Satan" gives it hysterical irony. Having them named ANYTHING ELSE removes said hysterical irony in its entirety. The joke is lost. The purpose is lost.
Satan is our savior. Our savior is named Satan. All praise be him.
Some people see that as a disadvantage.
But you are right about it not being the only advantage
In all my time as a Dragon Ball fan, I've really only ever seen resistance to it as a knee-jerk reaction I don't really understand. I mean, are Christians afraid of offending Satan?
As a Christian myself, I'm honestly amazed no one has ever thought to interpret the story in this manner: you have a buffoonish character calling himself Satan. He thinks he is amazing, and his main goal in life is to ensure others feel the same way. By the time of the Boo arc he has an entire city named after him and throngs of people deceived into believing he is their savior. Later on, though, he is humbled, humiliated, terrified, and changed utterly. He realizes to some degree of the error of his ways and does what little he can to help save the world and ally himself to the heroes.
If that's not a parable, I don't know what is.
Do you follow the most comprehensive and entertaining Dragon Ball analysis series on YouTube? If you do, you're smart and awesome and fairly attractive. If not, see what all the fuss is about without even having to leave Kanzenshuu:
DemonRin wrote:use of FUNimation dub spellings. Most don't bother me, but "Frieza" and "Hercule" do.
I used to write Freeza with an i all the time. And then when I first came to Kanzenshuu it kept changed it and put an extra e, then I found out about the word filter and I decided no point fighting it and just spelt Freeza with two e's. Now I find myself correcting other people when they spell it with a i it just looks so weird now. Godammit Kanzenshuu The H-ercule thing though, as always bothered me even before I came to Kanzenshuu. Of all the things to censor for Satan they pick H-ercule?
Gaffer Tape wrote:In all my time as a Dragon Ball fan, I've really only ever seen resistance to it as a knee-jerk reaction I don't really understand. I mean, are Christians afraid of offending Satan?
As a Christian myself, I'm honestly amazed no one has ever thought to interpret the story in this manner: you have a buffoonish character calling himself Satan. He thinks he is amazing, and his main goal in life is to ensure others feel the same way. By the time of the Boo arc he has an entire city named after him and throngs of people deceived into believing he is their savior. Later on, though, he is humbled, humiliated, terrified, and changed utterly. He realizes to some degree of the error of his ways and does what little he can to help save the world and ally himself to the heroes.
If that's not a parable, I don't know what is.
It is totally a knee-jerk reaction. The "ohmyGodtheycalledtheguySATAN" attitude doesn't make a bit of sense. It's just a minority of people with self-imposed taboos on a person's name, no different than the Harry Potter characters saying "You Know Who."
It's not like the Bible shies away from saying Satan's name. I've never seen or heard of any reputable clerical figure doing it either, and I teach classes on the history of Christianity. It's not backed by any real religious institution, just a bunch of people who are too worried about what overly religious mothers will think of their kids watching a show that has in any way a positive depiction of a guy named Satan.
DemonRin wrote:use of FUNimation dub spellings. Most don't bother me, but "Frieza" and "Hercule" do.
I used to write Freeza with an i all the time. And then when I first came to Kanzenshuu it kept changed it and put an extra e, then I found out about the word filter and I decided no point fighting it and just spelt Freeza with two e's. Now I find myself correcting other people when they spell it with a i it just looks so weird now. Godammit Kanzenshuu The H-ercule thing though, as always bothered me even before I came to Kanzenshuu. Of all the things to censor for Satan they pick H-ercule?
They got it from the French dub (Where he was named such because Piccolo was already named satan)
Gaffer Tape wrote:In all my time as a Dragon Ball fan, I've really only ever seen resistance to it as a knee-jerk reaction I don't really understand. I mean, are Christians afraid of offending Satan?
As a Christian myself, I'm honestly amazed no one has ever thought to interpret the story in this manner: you have a buffoonish character calling himself Satan. He thinks he is amazing, and his main goal in life is to ensure others feel the same way. By the time of the Boo arc he has an entire city named after him and throngs of people deceived into believing he is their savior. Later on, though, he is humbled, humiliated, terrified, and changed utterly. He realizes to some degree of the error of his ways and does what little he can to help save the world and ally himself to the heroes.
If that's not a parable, I don't know what is.
I'm worried about offending my family. I live in a very christian household, and Hercule is one of my favorite characters. I want to be able to talk about him with offending my mother
B wrote:"Mr. Satan sucks, he took the glory from Gohan!" couldn't be a bigger example of somebody missing the point, and it will never not be annoying.
They only care about what they want with Gohan. Boy has no ambition.
fadeddreams5 wrote:
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:... Haven't we already gotten these in GT? Goku dies, the DBs go away, and the Namekian DBs most likely won't be used again because of the Evil Dragons.
Goku didn't die in GT. The show sucked him off so much, it was impossible to keep him in the world of the living, so he ascended beyond mortality.
jjgp1112 wrote: Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:31 am
I'm just about done with the concept of reboots and making shows that were products of their time and impactful "new and sexy" and in line with modern tastes and sensibilities. Let stuff stay in their era and give today's kids their own shit to watch.
I always side eye the people who say "Now my kids/today's kids can experience what I did as a child!" Nigga, who gives a fuck about your childhood? You're an adult now and it was at least 15 years ago. Let the kids have their own experience instead of picking at a corpse.
Here are a few of that grind my gears:
- The DBZ movies were better with the rock music
- "It's Shenron not Shenlong!"
- Goku fanboys in Japan made Toriyama have Goku be the main character again when he planned for Gohan to be the main character
- Gogeta > Vegito
- Bulma's full name is Bulma Brief
- Vegeta is a king because his father died
Spoiler:
Akira Toriyama wrote:My policy is to try and forget things once they’re over. Since if I don’t discard the old and focus on what’s new, I’ll overload my brain capacity. I still haven’t lived down going, “Who the heck is Tao Pai-pai?” that one time I was talking with Ei’ichiro Oda-kun. But the fact that there are still people reading the series after all this time… All I can say is; “thank you.” Really, that’s all.
Akira Toriyama wrote:Drawing Dragon Ball again reminded me of two things--how much I love it, and how much I never want to do it again.
Kunzait_83 wrote:And if you're upset because all this new material completely invalidates the tabletop RPG rulebook-sized statistical system and flowchart for the characters' "canonical Power Levels" that you'd been working on painstakingly for the last bunch of years now... well I don't think there's a kind, non-blunt way of saying this, but that's 100% entirely your own misguided fault for buying so deeply into all this nonsensical garbage in the first place. And that you also have IMMENSELY skewed and comically backwards priorities in what you think is most important and needed to make a good Dragon Ball story.
Zephyr wrote:Goodness, they wrote idiotic drivel in a children's cartoon meant to advertise toys!? Again!? For the ninetieth episode in a row!? Somebody stop the presses! We have to voice our concern over these Super important issues!
Kamiccolo9 wrote:Fair enough, I concede. Sean Schemmel probably has some kind of hidden talent. Maybe he is an expert at Minesweeper. You're right; calling him "talentless" wasn't fair.
Michsi wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:29 amIn Super Piccolo got yelled off the stage by Vegeta in the U6 Tournament arc and lost to Jiminy Cricket in the ToP , he deserved 15 new transformations with his theme song played by Metallica in the background.
jcogginsa wrote:I'm worried about offending my family. I live in a very christian household, and (the H-word) is one of my favorite characters. I want to be able to talk about him with offending my mother
Well, if you pronounce his name the way it's actually written and spoken in the series (SAH-tan), they probably won't ever make the connection.
Do you follow the most comprehensive and entertaining Dragon Ball analysis series on YouTube? If you do, you're smart and awesome and fairly attractive. If not, see what all the fuss is about without even having to leave Kanzenshuu:
jcogginsa wrote:I'm worried about offending my family. I live in a very christian household, and (the H-word) is one of my favorite characters. I want to be able to talk about him with offending my mother
Well, if you pronounce his name the way it's actually written and spoken in the series (SAH-tan), they probably won't ever make the connection.
I've never heard it spoken that way (Though i've also never watched the japanese dub)
Although, I understand the argument as to why the name was changed to Her-cule. It doesn't hold any water really.
Mexico is a much more Christian nation and we had no problem with Mr. Satan. Heck, from what I've seen he's actual more popular there than in the states.
Although, it does get awkward when the whole world raises their hands and starts chanting "SATAN! SATAN! SATAN!", but personally, even as a hardcore catholic, I find that hilarious.
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