The Cell Saga Is The Lowest Rated Saga?

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Re: The Cell Saga Is The Lowest Rated Saga?

Post by TheGmGoken » Tue Apr 29, 2014 8:50 pm

If people think the Cell arc is any good without nostalgia goggles, then they obviously need someone to point out everything wrong with the saga. Which is a lot.
I think it's awesome. One of my favourite arcs fate rereading and watching for the first time. No nostalgia for me. I can list all what's wrong with any DB arc and any Anime honestly. Its my opinion. Cell arc is pretty damn good. If your opinion is that it sucks then that's ok but its not fact. You can give me any list you want. I mean I can debunked them or give my explanation but I'll still love it.

How can you expect people to respect your opinion if you don't respect other opinions?

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Re: The Cell Saga Is The Lowest Rated Saga?

Post by Kid Buu » Tue Apr 29, 2014 8:56 pm

TheGmGoken wrote: I think it's awesome. One of my favourite arcs fate rereading and watching for the first time. No nostalgia for me. I can list all what's wrong with any DB arc and any Anime honestly. Its my opinion. Cell arc is pretty damn good. If your opinion is that it sucks then that's ok but its not fact. You can give me any list you want. I mean I can debunked them or give my explanation but I'll still love it.

How can you expect people to respect your opinion if you don't respect other opinions?
Here's his list why he doesn't like the arc:
thatdbzguy wrote: Cell is the most bland and boring villain I have ever seen
- Most fights are too one-sided
- Every new character introduced in this saga is, like Cell, bland and boring
- Gohan's inexcusable OOC-ness
- Gohan's forced spotlight
- Far too heavy of a reliance on characters being stupid just to move the plot along
- RoSaT being a blatantly obvious Deus Ex Machina
- Vegeta and Trunks not staying in their FPSSJ forms like Goku and Gohan did during the wait for the Cell Games despite admitting that it was a clever idea is incredibly stupid
- Piss-poor final battle
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Re: The Cell Saga Is The Lowest Rated Saga?

Post by TheGmGoken » Tue Apr 29, 2014 9:14 pm

Kid Buu wrote:
TheGmGoken wrote: I think it's awesome. One of my favourite arcs fate rereading and watching for the first time. No nostalgia for me. I can list all what's wrong with any DB arc and any Anime honestly. Its my opinion. Cell arc is pretty damn good. If your opinion is that it sucks then that's ok but its not fact. You can give me any list you want. I mean I can debunked them or give my explanation but I'll still love it.

How can you expect people to respect your opinion if you don't respect other opinions?
Here's his list why he doesn't like the arc:
thatdbzguy wrote: Cell is the most bland and boring villain I have ever seen
- Most fights are too one-sided
- Every new character introduced in this saga is, like Cell, bland and boring
- Gohan's inexcusable OOC-ness
- Gohan's forced spotlight
- Far too heavy of a reliance on characters being stupid just to move the plot along
- RoSaT being a blatantly obvious Deus Ex Machina
- Vegeta and Trunks not staying in their FPSSJ forms like Goku and Gohan did during the wait for the Cell Games despite admitting that it was a clever idea is incredibly stupid
- Piss-poor final battle
- One sided fights are in every anime. Cell arc fights wasn't that one sided except for Vegeta vs Semi Cell and the USSJ Trunks
- Cell first goal was to become perfect. THAT's a goal. Once he became perfect isn't he just a Saiyan? Loves to fight? Want a challenge. Had he destroyed Earth most likely he would have looked for stronger fighters to test his perfection. Once he became "Super" perfect he was arguably insane but calm at the same time.

- Trunks was bland? Future Gohan(especially anime version) was bland? 17 and 18 was cool cause it was a game to them and they acted like basic criminals. That's awesome. 16 is just a stereotype Android who loves. Gero was awesome as he reminds me of Namek Vegeta as Gero is smart and wise. 19 was boring I'll admit.

- Not going to bring up that Ooc debate we got too many topics for that.

- Gohan spotlight felt organic. When he was handed it he basically refused it. Which is a common theme in fiction. If someone dies or you become the only reliable person then you "refuse" spotlight. Once SSJ2 the spotlight wasn't forced. In fact it was passing of the torch.

- Characters being stupid for plot is in every anime pretty much. Hell Romeo was a stupid boy who falls in love quickly and he died for it.

- it's actually a pretty cool idea. I love it.

- They mastered SSJ just like Goku and Gohan. They didn't know about Son(s) staying SSJ. They just know they mastered it.

- The final battle is not a battle its storytelling. About passing torch. Similar to some wrestling matches. Example being Rock vs Hogan(bad match but great crowd and story) and Cena vs Wyatt

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Re: The Cell Saga Is The Lowest Rated Saga?

Post by Fionordequester » Tue Apr 29, 2014 9:32 pm

Freeza Soldier #156 wrote:You don't find the characters interesting. You don't find the world interesting. What about the series do you find interesting? From reading your posts, I can't seem to figure out why you're even here. Unless it's to push people's buttons; that's about the only thing I can see.
AjayLikesGaming wrote:You're slipping into doing nothing but regurgitating the same old condescension and ignoring points by dismissing them over and over.

You can't debate with someone who has no interest in listening.
The thing is though, he doesn't have any interest in listening, and that's because there seems to be a deeper issue here than he let's on. If you go through his posts from the very beginning, he used to love DBZ, but somewhere along the way, something changed. He says that it's because he "couldn't ignore how bad DBZ was any longer", but I suspect something else. He's made other threads saying how worthless he felt, so I'm thinking that he feels like enjoying DBZ is something that he should be ashamed of for whatever reason, hence, the threads we've gotten. I mean, if it really was just a matter of trolling, he waited an awfully long time to do it. And for someone who despises DBZ, he sure spends a lot of time here making threads and arguing with us. Hence, what I say.

I think what he needs more than anything is a good pal. So how about it DBZGuy? Would you mind if I PMed you every three days or so to check up on how you're doing? Even if my theory is totally wrong...well, couldn't hurt to have a nice hello, right?

EDIT: Sorry if psycho-analyzing like this goes against your wishes VegettoEX. I won't do it anymore from now on if you wish. But I really do think this issue is important enough to be worth repeating at least once.
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Re: The Cell Saga Is The Lowest Rated Saga?

Post by Ajay » Tue Apr 29, 2014 9:45 pm

I know he has no interest, that's why I made a point of it. I'm confused by your first sentence.

I'm aware of his other posts, I simply don't care enough anymore to bother bringing them up. I left a lengthy, very personal message in that thread that devolved into pseudo-psychoanalysis and that's all I feel the need to comment on the matter.
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Re: The Cell Saga Is The Lowest Rated Saga?

Post by FrogTrigger » Tue Apr 29, 2014 10:20 pm

Cell Saga had the best kick in the show

Well two of the best from Goku, and Gohan showed that he is DEFINITELY his father's son with the gut shot on Cell. Goku has pulled that gut shot on Napa, Recoome, Piccolo and Tenshinhan.

I got SUPER DUPER HYPE when Goku punted Android #19, and when he kicked Cell in the air? OH MY GOD I JUST LOVED IT GUYS

Then Gohan with the "imam hit you so hard you regurgitate what you ate" punch? Making Cell's eyes bug out and straight up embarrass him? Gohan basically shattered his ego with that shot and it was great to see Cell realize he was outclassed

This saga had some of my favorite moments in the series

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Re: The Cell Saga Is The Lowest Rated Saga?

Post by SingleFringe&Sparks » Tue Apr 29, 2014 10:54 pm

thatdbzguy wrote: If people think the Cell arc is any good without nostalgia goggles, then they obviously need someone to point out everything wrong with the saga. Which is a lot.
Nostalgia isnt required to like the Cell arc, structurally it was the best arc with the most consistancy I see it. The Buu arc made no sense most of the time and too many of the fights feel like jokes or filler. Cell was a solid villain, his twists to the story were all done as he said, no obvious ass-pulls, the tone was serious enough to follow and the tension was within what was the most complex of the series. The Freeza saga was just about Freeza toying with people and how Goku is better than Vegeta because he just is. The only important thing to it was Goku accepting himself as a Saiyan and the admittingly vast complexity to Vegetas character in that arc alone. Besides that most of the arc was just Freeza is scary, where is Goku? Type tension. Just like the Saiyan arc. The Cell arc wasnt as predictable, and it actually had its share of analytical pit-stops to give the show some actual depth to it.
The Buu arc just felt like Akira T. Just winged the whole thing on cruise control. It wasnt bad by any means because of that, but it was too laid back to be as memorable. Nothing really happened until Majin Vegeta and later Kid Buu appeared.
TheGmGoken wrote: One sided fights are in every anime. Cell arc fights wasn't that one sided except for Vegeta vs Semi Cell and the USSJ Trunks
Buu saga was more 1-sided 90% of the entire Saga. Buu basically beat everyone over and over until the spirit bomb. In the Cell arc, anyone could have beat him but the margin of power kept shifting like a scale, sometimes cell was stronger sometimes the Z-fighters were stronger and even in Cell's defence he was already shown what makes his power unique and the meaning to it. Buu had no explaination at all given to him why he was just so OP, then he was never mentioned again despite being that strong. Cell was even mentioned again as a peak opponent of comparison multiple times. You never hear Buu brought back up. Its like he never happened.[/quote]
Last edited by SingleFringe&Sparks on Wed Apr 30, 2014 8:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Cell Saga Is The Lowest Rated Saga?

Post by Kid Buu » Tue Apr 29, 2014 11:26 pm

SingleFringe&Sparks wrote: he was never mentioned again despite being that strong. Cell was even mentioned again as a peak opponent of comparison multiple times. You never hear Buu brought back up. Its like he never happened.
Well, yeah, hard to compare him to people when the series ends around his death,
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Re: The Cell Saga Is The Lowest Rated Saga?

Post by Kamiccolo9 » Tue Apr 29, 2014 11:35 pm

Kid Buu wrote:
SingleFringe&Sparks wrote: he was never mentioned again despite being that strong. Cell was even mentioned again as a peak opponent of comparison multiple times. You never hear Buu brought back up. Its like he never happened.
Well, yeah, hard to compare him to people when the series ends around his death,
For what it's worth, Buu was used as the measure of strength in the early parts of GT. Rildo was specifically compared to Buu.
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Re: The Cell Saga Is The Lowest Rated Saga?

Post by TheGmGoken » Wed Apr 30, 2014 12:09 am

Kamiccolo9 wrote:
Kid Buu wrote:
SingleFringe&Sparks wrote: he was never mentioned again despite being that strong. Cell was even mentioned again as a peak opponent of comparison multiple times. You never hear Buu brought back up. Its like he never happened.
Well, yeah, hard to compare him to people when the series ends around his death,
For what it's worth, Buu was used as the measure of strength in the early parts of GT. Rildo was specifically compared to Buu.
Speaking of measuring stick. Freeza is used for almost every Z antagonist. Even Beerus

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Re: The Cell Saga Is The Lowest Rated Saga?

Post by thatdbzguy » Wed Apr 30, 2014 6:08 am

SingleFringe&Sparks wrote:no obvious ass-pulls
RoSaT.
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Re: The Cell Saga Is The Lowest Rated Saga?

Post by ABED » Wed Apr 30, 2014 8:34 am

thatdbzguy wrote:
SingleFringe&Sparks wrote:no obvious ass-pulls
RoSaT.
How do you figure?
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Re: The Cell Saga Is The Lowest Rated Saga?

Post by thatdbzguy » Wed Apr 30, 2014 11:39 am

ABED wrote:
thatdbzguy wrote:
SingleFringe&Sparks wrote:no obvious ass-pulls
RoSaT.
How do you figure?
It's a highly convenient thing brought right the F out of no where.
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Re: The Cell Saga Is The Lowest Rated Saga?

Post by Wibbs » Wed Apr 30, 2014 11:40 am

thatdbzguy wrote:
SingleFringe&Sparks wrote:no obvious ass-pulls
RoSaT.
I'm not trying to be a dick or anything but I hardly think the Room of Spirit and Time qualifies as an "ass-pull". If I'm not wrong an ass pull is more or less the same thing as a deus ex machina where a character pulls a new thing out of nowhere to help them win the fight. The Room of Spirit and Time helped the heroes to get stronger but it in no way helped to win the fight. No one who went in ever outright won a fight based on what they achieved in the RoSat, unless you count Vegeta humiliating 2nd form Cell. All it did was give them a power boost which only served to weaken them in the long run when Cell had become perfect. It would be more accurate to call Android 16 an ass-pull, which he isn't, as he is the one who helps Gohan to ascend to Super Saiyan 2 and win the fight.
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Re: The Cell Saga Is The Lowest Rated Saga?

Post by RocktheDragon » Wed Apr 30, 2014 11:54 am

It's entertaining to continually comb through this thread because I'm finishing up the Cell arc (Kai) with my friend who is new to DBZ and he doesn't care for it at all, at least compared to the previous arcs.

His main flaws with the Cell arc are that things seem to get a bit boring for him with the arrival of the cell tournament, and in general he doesn't find Cell as a villain to be all that compelling. Criticisms that I feel aren't too out of line.
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Re: The Cell Saga Is The Lowest Rated Saga?

Post by VegettoEX » Wed Apr 30, 2014 12:06 pm

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Re: The Cell Saga Is The Lowest Rated Saga?

Post by ABED » Wed Apr 30, 2014 12:09 pm

The Room of Spirit and Time also has limitations. If it had just been a room to get some quick training in, that's one thing, but it's clear that the room has a time limit and a very harsh environment.
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Re: The Cell Saga Is The Lowest Rated Saga?

Post by Wibbs » Wed Apr 30, 2014 12:15 pm

ABED wrote:The Room of Spirit and Time also has limitations. If it had just been a room to get some quick training in, that's one thing, but it's clear that the room has a time limit and a very harsh environment.
There is that, and you have the fact that all of Vegeta and Trunks' time was spent developing a form that ended up being worse than the one they started with.
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Re: The Cell Saga Is The Lowest Rated Saga?

Post by ABED » Wed Apr 30, 2014 12:23 pm

Wibbs wrote:
ABED wrote:The Room of Spirit and Time also has limitations. If it had just been a room to get some quick training in, that's one thing, but it's clear that the room has a time limit and a very harsh environment.
There is that, and you have the fact that all of Vegeta and Trunks' time was spent developing a form that ended up being worse than the one they started with.
Trunks did, but not Vegeta. Vegeta understood the form's limitations and tradeoffs.
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Re: The Cell Saga Is The Lowest Rated Saga?

Post by Kaboom » Wed Apr 30, 2014 2:47 pm

Like ABED said, the Room of Spirit and Time is acceptable as far as deus ex machinas go because it came with limitations (the extra-harsh environments, the 2-person limit, the time limit, etc), and those limitations were also the retroactive reason why it hadn't been shown or extensively used before. It's no less an ass-pull than the real Holy Water (opposed to Karin's fake one), or the concept of Saiyan healing boosts and Super Saiyan, or transcending Super Saiyan, or Fusion, or the Z-Sword, or anything else.
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