Official On-Going DBZ 2013 Movie Thread: "Battle of Gods"

[DragonBalllKaiHD]

The problem is that Rild is a machine mutant created by Dr. Myu and is a ruler of the planet. You would expect Myu to be creating something powerful. He had no problem creating Hell Fighter #17 who was stronger than Freeza. It's pretty clear that he was not just a side character.

When Goku commented that he was stronger than Boo, it was not specify which form of Boo he was talking about. It could be Fat Boo he was referring to, since later Rild was struggling against SSJ Goku. He was easily killed by Goku and Co.'s combined Kamehameha.

I conclude that Rild is stronger than Fat Boo, not Kid Boo. He was not a random alien who just happened to rule the planet.

[NeoKING]

Soooooooooooo Goku's famous for beating Freeza huh? Schweet.

[Saiga]

The problem is that Rild is a machine mutant created by Dr. Myu and is a ruler of the planet. You would expect Myu to be creating something powerful. He had no problem creating Hell Fighter #17 who was stronger than Freeza. It's pretty clear that he was not just a side character.

When Goku commented that he was stronger than Boo, it was not specify which form of Boo he was talking about. It could be Fat Boo he was referring to, since later Rild was struggling against SSJ Goku. He was easily killed by Goku and Co.'s combined Kamehameha.

I conclude that Rild is stronger than Fat Boo, not Kid Boo.

I sure as hell wouldn't expect him to create something that powerful. If Rilld was stronger than Freeza or the Androids, fair game. But I don't see any reason why he should be as powerful as Majin Boo without adequate explanation.

Remember that GT has base Goku school Cell easily. That makes me think it's highly unlikely for Rilld to only be at Fat Boo's level (actually, which Fat Boo do you mean? Before or after he split with his evil half?). In the context of the story, I think it's most likely that he's talking about Pure Boo, even if it's ridiculous for him to be strong enough to fight someone stronger than Pure Boo in base/Super Saiyan - GT just has high scaling like that.

[Herms]

I think being labeled as "the God of Destruction who maintains the balance of the universe" is at least a slightly more effective basis for power than "just because."

If anything, "just because" is the reason we get for Freeza's strength. Sure, in the android arc and Episode of Bardock we got some vague information about him coming from a powerful clan, and Toriyama says in one interview that Freeza's descended from a powerful mutant hybrid thing, but in the actual Freeza arc itself we get zilch. There, Freeza is the most powerful being in the universe...because he's Freeza. And this is coming after Vegeta was supposed to be strongest in the universe, the most gifted member of the strongest warrior race. Suddenly, there's a guy who's literally thousands of times stronger than that, because...he...just kinda is.

It's an amazingly flimsy excuse to introduce a stronger villain, but fans generally let it slide because, well, Freeza's just that cool a character. In other words, I don't think people in general really care much if new villains have good reasons for being stronger, they just care about whether or not they're good villains. If (for instance) most fans thought Rild was the coolest character in all of DB, I doubt you'd hear anyone question Goku and co. randomly running into someone do powerful in space, just as you seldom hear people question Goku and co. running into Freeza.

[TRL]

To remind me of why GT was so bad I just watched a little clip of it. It was the moment before Baby was going to transform to his ape form. Then suddenly Goku from distance shouts "heads up baby!" and only then starts charging a kamehameha. A beam is never used from that far a distance, even in the games that's a broken strategy, and to make things worse he announces it. This is why GT blows. Believe me, I've tried forcing myself to like it. It just isn't possible.

[InfernalVegito]

To remind me of why GT was so bad I just watched a little clip of it. It was the moment before Baby was going to transform to his ape form. Then suddenly Goku from distance shouts "heads up baby!" and only then starts charging a kamehameha. A beam is never used from that far a distance, even in the games that's a broken strategy, and to make things worse he announces it. This is why GT blows. Believe me, I've tried forcing myself to like it. It just isn't possible.

Haha I remember that. It's just like Mike said, that characters simply do not act the way one would assume them to do optimally. But GT brought the characters' idiocy to a whole new level.
I still love GT nonetheless.

[hleV]

If anything, "just because" is the reason we get for Freeza's strength. Sure, in the android arc and Episode of Bardock we got some vague information about him coming from a powerful clan, and Toriyama says in one interview that Freeza's descended from a powerful mutant hybrid thing, but in the actual Freeza arc itself we get zilch. There, Freeza is the most powerful being in the universe...because he's Freeza. And this is coming after Vegeta was supposed to be strongest in the universe, the most gifted member of the strongest warrior race. Suddenly, there's a guy who's literally thousands of times stronger than that, because...he...just kinda is.

It's an amazingly flimsy excuse to introduce a stronger villain, but fans generally let it slide because, well, Freeza's just that cool a character. In other words, I don't think people in general really care much if new villains have good reasons for being stronger, they just care about whether or not they're good villains. If (for instance) most fans thought Rild was the coolest character in all of DB, I doubt you'd hear anyone question Goku and co. randomly running into someone do powerful in space, just as you seldom hear people question Goku and co. running into Freeza.

I actually find that Freeza doesn't need any "just because" to explain his strength.

• Vegeta was an arrogant prick who actually had a plot against Freeza, so it makes sense that he'd call himself the most powerful in the universe, not some other guy who he hates.
• Then we get Freeza - the guy who is acknowledged as the most powerful in the universe by OTHERS. And he HAPPENS to be the most powerful in the universe.
• The androids are designed SPECIFICALLY TO BE that strong.
• Boo is a MAGICAL being.

So, while DB has this shonen "more powerful villains appear, heroes become more powerful to defeat them", there ain't that much of a logic issue with HOW the new villains happen to be more powerful than the ones before.
Then there's Toei...

[Saiga]

If anything, "just because" is the reason we get for Freeza's strength. Sure, in the android arc and Episode of Bardock we got some vague information about him coming from a powerful clan, and Toriyama says in one interview that Freeza's descended from a powerful mutant hybrid thing, but in the actual Freeza arc itself we get zilch. There, Freeza is the most powerful being in the universe...because he's Freeza. And this is coming after Vegeta was supposed to be strongest in the universe, the most gifted member of the strongest warrior race. Suddenly, there's a guy who's literally thousands of times stronger than that, because...he...just kinda is.

It's an amazingly flimsy excuse to introduce a stronger villain, but fans generally let it slide because, well, Freeza's just that cool a character. In other words, I don't think people in general really care much if new villains have good reasons for being stronger, they just care about whether or not they're good villains. If (for instance) most fans thought Rild was the coolest character in all of DB, I doubt you'd hear anyone question Goku and co. randomly running into someone do powerful in space, just as you seldom hear people question Goku and co. running into Freeza.

Actually, I agree with this. I don't like how powerful Freeza was and for such a flimsy reason. It's part of the reason I strongly dislike Freeza and the Freeza Arc.

So I guess I'm one of the few who cares about villains having a good reason to be so strong.

[sonikku956]

After Bugs Bunny, Usagi Yojimbo, Bucky O`Hare, Jazz Jackrabbit, Ash from Hell Yeah!: Wrath of the Dead Rabbit, nice to see another awesome rabbit

He is a cat.

[Cold Skin]

Being a God of Destruction is a reason to be "the strongest ever" in itself.
We've seen Gods that didn't need to be strong to fulfill their functions.
But when your role as a God is specifically "of Destruction", you're obviously supposed to have enough power to destroy anyone and anything, it makes sense that you're meant to be "the strongest".

It must be boring to have always been the strongest in the universe, so naturally, you rush for the first person you hear might be considered "the person that freed the universe from its ultimate tyrant" aka "the one now considered the strongest" to see if he can actually be a good and exciting challenge to your own position as the strongest being.

[InfernalVegito]

If that's his title also within the universe, then he should be known. At least by the Kaioshins or someone else who call him like that. Otherwise the title means nothing if only he calls himself like that.
But we'll see.

[DragonBalllKaiHD]

To remind me of why GT was so bad I just watched a little clip of it. It was the moment before Baby was going to transform to his ape form. Then suddenly Goku from distance shouts "heads up baby!" and only then starts charging a kamehameha. A beam is never used from that far a distance, even in the games that's a broken strategy, and to make things worse he announces it. This is why GT blows. Believe me, I've tried forcing myself to like it. It just isn't possible.

Goku vs. Freeza disagrees with you. Goku used Kamehameha twice from a long distance. Also don't forget Piccolo Daimao used his Ki beam to try to destroy the Budokai arena and kill Gokun hundreds of feet away from it.

[JulieYBM]

One trend I've been noticing is that people seem to be referring to this movie as taking place "between the end of Z and before GT," as if GT actually happened. It would be a legitimate descriptor, but unfortunately for GT, Toriyama is involved. And with the existence of the Dragon Ball Online story, there really is no place for GT anymore. I believe Dragon Ball has actually outgrown GT... and at this point it's a bit of a nuisance. If Toriyama wanted to continue on and make more media after this movie that takes place around the same time GT does, but a canonized version, that would be great, but it would only create fusion and a divergence that people who didn't have a firm grasp on the series would be helplessly confused by. If an official Super Saiyan 4 came out, or a new fate for Uub was written, that would just make everything so confusing.

No, the problem is fans in the west overly complicating things. Dragon Ball GT happened where it happened. Online happens where it happens. Let's stop pretending a project stops existing just because something is released that ignores it.

[Ryuman]

If that's his title also within the universe, then he should be known. At least by the Kaioshins or someone else who call him like that. Otherwise the title means nothing if only he calls himself like that.
But we'll see.

I would assume that's why Kaio tells Goku not to fight.

[Rukura]

I totally buy it. I have to, otherwise there's no interest.

When they started to hype up the announcement of the movie, the phrase was "The strongest make their move" (right?). If the premise of the movie was "The one that might be able to make Goku in base form break a sweat but will totally get be beaten when he goes Super Saiyan 3 awakens!" there wouldn't be any interest in seeing it.

About him being "too flimsy"....were'll all okay with Fat Buu and Kid Buu being strong, right? Are we really gonna go on how the character looks? When discussing DRAGON BALL?

[Cold Skin]

If that's his title also within the universe, then he should be known. At least by the Kaioshins or someone else who call him like that. Otherwise the title means nothing if only he calls himself like that.
But we'll see.

I would assume that's why Kaio tells Goku not to fight.

I think so too.

He's obviously known to all Kaio and Kaioshin, but there was no need to mention him or worry about him since it's said he was alsleep from what I remember of the plot.
Some dumb people must have awaken him when it was not supposed to happen!

Kaio being thrown into a total panic for the safety of a post-Boo Goku is enough to imply he knows how horribly strong that threat is.

[JeffJarrett]

There are more problems in GT though, another one I will point out is that the characters forget how fast they are at many points like one time a car was getting away with their spaceship and they were like WTF DO WE DO NOW. Uh, didn't Gotenks circle the world like 7 times within just an hour?

So being civilized and not using violence for anything is a problem for you?

[penguintruth]

Oh hey, I found a page from the script!

Goku: Kaio-sama... is that you?

Kaio: Goku! Don't fight him! He's too much for even you! I shudder to even think just how horribly overpowered and unlikely strong this guy who clearly could have stepped in to defeat Freeza or Buu but didn't and even though he's way more powerful than anyone ever nobody bothered to bring him up until now, even in passing... is!

Goku: Kaio-sama... I've got to try! For my friends I ignore... for my family I neglect... for all the hogies and grinders and subs and gyros... I think they might be the same thing, but they're all yummy... I haven't eaten yet! For the Earth!

Giant swell of music.

Kaio: GOKUUUUUUUUUUUUUU!

Goku charges his laser.

After the battle:

Kaio: Goku! You did it, you somehow through improbable odds beat the guy who defeated you once and you somehow defeated by tapping into hidden power that you were probably too stupid to remember you had! Its a good thing you never once listen to any warning I ever say and I always turn out looking stupid for underestimating you despite the fact you always end up winning regardless of the situation, as if you were some cherished main character the original creator couldn't bare to not defeat the villain!

Goku: That's right, Kaio-sama... I did it. For the hogies. I mean, for the Earth!

Kaio: Oh, that Goku!

CUE CREDITS (inexplicably a L'Arc song now)



That will be Kaio's role in the film.

[Saiga]

There are more problems in GT though, another one I will point out is that the characters forget how fast they are at many points like one time a car was getting away with their spaceship and they were like WTF DO WE DO NOW. Uh, didn't Gotenks circle the world like 7 times within just an hour?

So being civilized and not using violence for anything is a problem for you?

They could easily retrieve their ship without violence. Just fly over with their super fast flight and use their super strength to pluck it from the thieves without harming anyone.

Plus, the guys just stole their fucking ship. If violence was necessary to retrieve it (so they can continue in their mission to save their planet), using it wouldn't be uncivilized at all.

[JeffJarrett]

They could easily retrieve their ship without violence. Just fly over with their super fast flight and use their super strength to pluck it from the thieves without harming anyone.

Plus, the guys just stole their fucking ship. If violence was necessary to retrieve it (so they can continue in their mission to save their planet), using it wouldn't be uncivilized at all.

Even if they are on another planet, they have to respect the law of that planet. When you're in a foreign country and the policemen decide to take your car because you parked it in a place it wasn't allowed you won't run after them and try to retrieve your car using your strength.

I'm all for opinions but there are obvious factual problems with the series such as plot holes. Pilaf being alive after the Earth blew up is a major one. Dende clearly wished that all non-bad guys be brought back to life. That would mean Pilaf stays dead since he is bad.

Have you ever followed Pilaf's adventures in DB. He's not an evil character, and it was established in his very first appearance in the series. He wanted to torture Bulma and to do so he blew her a kiss. Even his henchmen were disgusted, while Bulma was confused and couldn't believe how childish Pilaf was. That guy sleeps with a teddy bear, and he never killed anyone in the series (contrary to Goku, Vegeta, and Abo & Kado).

Another one is in the Shadow Dragon Saga where Goku and Vegeta attempted fusion directly after diffusing. Last I checked there is a 30 minute time limit before you can fuse again.

They tried but failed.

Another is being "immortal" in Hell. Goku clearly states if you die again you dont exist anymore. What's stopping Goku from atomizing both Cell and Freeza? Plot holes aside however there is still plain ignorance displayed in the characters.

If one dies a second time in the living world. In the afterlife, people don't even need to eat and they don't starve to death.

Why didnt Uub revert himself back to normal inside Baby before he turned into an ape? There are quite a few problems with the series as a whole and what I mentioned is only the tip of the iceburg. I havent even expressed my personal complaints with the series as a whole. If you like GT thats fine but dont take offense when someone bashes an obviously problematic show.

Why Majin Buu also revereted back to normal inside Evil Buu/Super Buu? The same reason as Uub, because he's the one who intially fired the Chocolate Beam.