Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[wolflonnie]

Gohan and Kuririn are terribly low lol.

They are suppose to be the strongest after Vegeta and Piccolo when Mecha Freeza arrives.

I agree. Such an odd approach to BP. And yet, the fact that it's odd shows that they thought about them and probably did some researches as well.

[Lionel]

I don't care for the minimalist interpretation of most of the humans' power levels there. We know the training they requested entailed something more difficult than what Goku had undertaken -- not to mention they were working with multiple sparring partners amongst each other. Yamcha was there almost as long as Goku himself while Tenshinhan and Chaozu remained for 2/3rds of a year roughly.

If Piccolo's gains were enough to prompt Nail into admitting that remerging with Kami, an act that was described by the Grand Elder as "halving the genius power gifted at birth", would be sufficient to handle Freeza with his self-admitted power level of 530,000, then I have to wonder where the humans stood. Crazy as it sounds, maybe the filler depicting the humans easily dispensing with the Ginyu Force isn't too far off the mark after all.

[Miracles]

It isnt unanimously translated that way. Plus in that scene, Jiren was also fighting Post-2nd Omen SSB Goku at the same time, so Jiren couldn't have been holding back more than before.

Doesn't change the facts that the story stated Jiren was holding back against Vegeta.

The point was that an accurate translation says Jiren didn't hold back more against Vegeta. What Vegeta was meant to say in that scene was like "haha you were doing better against Kakarot".

That is fanfic.

[Sadala Elite]

Doesn't change the facts that the story stated Jiren was holding back against Vegeta.

The point was that an accurate translation says Jiren didn't hold back more against Vegeta. What Vegeta was meant to say in that scene was like "haha you were doing better against Kakarot".

That is fanfic.

Its fact

[wolflonnie]

Ok so regarding DBZ: Kakarot's BP, I was very wrong, they are influenced by the character's level.
This morning I launched the game and they were at one number, then I started grinding against some minibosses and the numbers increased even though I didn't advance the story.
This is the numbers I wrote when my characters were around lv.33 (except the humans, Krillin at lv.25 and the others 10 to 15).
Once again, those are right after the Frieza saga, before Mecha Frieza's arrival.

Vegeta: 1 mil 700k
Piccolo: 1 mil 110k
Tien: 75k
Yamcha: 33k
Krillin: 32k
Gohan: 24k
Chaotzu: 7500

To make a comparison, Gohan is now lv.36 and sitting at 33k. I assume his BP will increase by a lot once he'll get to his teen Gohan form.
I'll post more when I continue the story.

EDIT: Goku, post Yardrat, is 4 mil 1k.

[wolflonnie]

Ok... weird stuff happening. Very early (vs 19) Android saga, Goku and Vegeta at 4 mil each (I assume for base forms), but Piccolo barely at 6 mil. Tien at 2 mil.

[Thani]

Goku and Vegeta at 4mil is very respectable, imo. It would give them 200mil as SSj, quite a step up. If anything, I would argue that Vegeta should be stronger than Goku, since it was implied.

Tien and Piccolo is where it's really weird. Piccolo should indeed be stronger than Goku and Vegeta in base, since he did stomp Gero, but 6mil seems a little low for him. Tien is just lulwhat hahaha

[GodVegetto91]

Okay guys! How strong do you think Moro has gotten over these last 2 months of sucking up planets? Do you think he has finally surpassed the likes of Jiren and Full Power Broly?

It makes sense, considering the fact that the next enemy is usually always stronger than the previous enemy (with the exception of Beerus), with 2 months of sucking planets dry, it’s more than possible for him to have attained such power, right?

Remember how terrifyingly powerful Imperfect Cell became way back in Z, and he only absorbed the energy from humans alone, No plants, no birds, no animals, no rocks, no air, no planet itself, just a few hundred million humans, not even every human on this planet. Earth was just one planet, Moro absorbed MANY “whole” planets!

This is on a whole TOTALLY different scale than Imperfect Cell back than needless to say.

[Miracles]

The point was that an accurate translation says Jiren didn't hold back more against Vegeta. What Vegeta was meant to say in that scene was like "haha you were doing better against Kakarot".

That is fanfic.

Its fact

The show disagrees with you.

[Thani]

Okay guys! How strong do you think Moro has gotten over these last 2 months of sucking up planets? Do you think he has finally surpassed the likes of Jiren and Full Power Broly?

It makes sense, considering the fact that the next enemy is usually always stronger than the previous enemy (with the exception of Beerus), with 2 months of sucking planets dry, it’s more than possible for him to have attained such power, right?

Remember how terrifyingly powerful Imperfect Cell became way back in Z, and he only absorbed the energy from humans alone, No plants, no birds, no animals, no rocks, no air, no planet itself, just a few hundred million humans, not even every human on this planet. Earth was just one planet, Moro absorbed MANY “whole” planets!

This is on a whole TOTALLY different scale than Imperfect Cell back than needless to say.

Honestly, he should be above Goku and Vegeta as of now. But there's a plethora of characters between them and Gods of Destruction.

Unless the manga gives a clear answer, I would say he's getting there, but not yet on that level.

[wolflonnie]

Goku and Vegeta at 4mil is very respectable, imo. It would give them 200mil as SSj, quite a step up. If anything, I would argue that Vegeta should be stronger than Goku, since it was implied.

Tien and Piccolo is where it's really weird. Piccolo should indeed be stronger than Goku and Vegeta in base, since he did stomp Gero, but 6mil seems a little low for him. Tien is just lulwhat hahaha

Unfortunately I noticed the game stops trying after the Frieza saga. I'm well deep into the Cell saga, almost at the Cell games, and poor man Piccolo is 8 mil something. Base saiyans are 7 mil each more or less.

[Lionel]

Goku and Vegeta at 4mil is very respectable, imo. It would give them 200mil as SSj, quite a step up. If anything, I would argue that Vegeta should be stronger than Goku, since it was implied.

Tien and Piccolo is where it's really weird. Piccolo should indeed be stronger than Goku and Vegeta in base, since he did stomp Gero, but 6mil seems a little low for him. Tien is just lulwhat hahaha

Unfortunately I noticed the game stops trying after the Frieza saga. I'm well deep into the Cell saga, almost at the Cell games, and poor man Piccolo is 8 mil something. Base saiyans are 7 mil each more or less.

To be honest, I don't have the humans measuring that much weaker than the base Saiyans early on in the arc, let alone Piccolo who was certifiably closer to the Super Saiyans than said base. How in the world do they rationalise Piccolo's performance against Gero or #17 then? We know Piccolo was worse for wear than his Saiyan compatriots but still keeping to his feet in the short time the Cell Jrs were carrying out Cell's directive to kill. There's more arguing to the contrary than him somehow just coming up a bit stronger than the base Saiyans in that time-frame.

[wolflonnie]

Goku and Vegeta at 4mil is very respectable, imo. It would give them 200mil as SSj, quite a step up. If anything, I would argue that Vegeta should be stronger than Goku, since it was implied.

Tien and Piccolo is where it's really weird. Piccolo should indeed be stronger than Goku and Vegeta in base, since he did stomp Gero, but 6mil seems a little low for him. Tien is just lulwhat hahaha

Unfortunately I noticed the game stops trying after the Frieza saga. I'm well deep into the Cell saga, almost at the Cell games, and poor man Piccolo is 8 mil something. Base saiyans are 7 mil each more or less.

To be honest, I don't have the humans measuring that much weaker than the base Saiyans early on in the arc, let alone Piccolo who was certifiably closer to the Super Saiyans than said base. How in the world do they rationalise Piccolo's performance against Gero or #17 then? We know Piccolo was worse for wear than his Saiyan compatriots but still keeping to his feet in the short time the Cell Jrs were carrying out Cell's directive to kill. There's more arguing to the contrary than him somehow just coming up a bit stronger than the base Saiyans in that time-frame.

I think the devs either thought that they would be forced to have Piccolo hundreds of times stronger than the saiyans with the BPs, or... I dunno. They could've simply scaled the SSJs with him. At the point I'm on, everybody is 9 mil max. Krillin is around 330k. Again, it stops making sense after the Frieza saga unfortunately.

[Lionel]

Unfortunately I noticed the game stops trying after the Frieza saga. I'm well deep into the Cell saga, almost at the Cell games, and poor man Piccolo is 8 mil something. Base saiyans are 7 mil each more or less.

To be honest, I don't have the humans measuring that much weaker than the base Saiyans early on in the arc, let alone Piccolo who was certifiably closer to the Super Saiyans than said base. How in the world do they rationalise Piccolo's performance against Gero or #17 then? We know Piccolo was worse for wear than his Saiyan compatriots but still keeping to his feet in the short time the Cell Jrs were carrying out Cell's directive to kill. There's more arguing to the contrary than him somehow just coming up a bit stronger than the base Saiyans in that time-frame.

I think the devs either thought that they would be forced to have Piccolo hundreds of times stronger than the saiyans with the BPs, or... I dunno. They could've simply scaled the SSJs with him. At the point I'm on, everybody is 9 mil max. Krillin is around 330k. Again, it stops making sense after the Frieza saga unfortunately.

It got too inflationary during the Freeza arc. Sure going from the mid 100s to 18,000 was a hefty jump, but it was framed in such a way that you could excuse it -- the antagonists hailed from a planet with an environment 10x worse than the one you grew up in your whole life, Goku was training in the afterlife for the first time with a mythical figure whose regimen was described as being equivalent to thousands of years worth of Earth training, ect. Goku still had to rely on an amplification technique that concentrated his strength just to be able to fight back.

During the Freeza battle, you had these rapid extraordinary jumps with little rhyme or reason to them. Much of it seemed to be fabricated to accommodate for this grossly oversized power level of the tyrant. They could have still sold the aura of invincibility of Freeza by keeping his power level in the hundreds of thousands with maybe some fraction of his manga strength like 1.2 million being the maximum. It's a leap but not one that's so grossly insurmountable that you're having to multiply everything to the point of absurdity just to keep the process of raising the stakes going.

[Thani]

To be honest, I don't have the humans measuring that much weaker than the base Saiyans early on in the arc, let alone Piccolo who was certifiably closer to the Super Saiyans than said base. How in the world do they rationalise Piccolo's performance against Gero or #17 then? We know Piccolo was worse for wear than his Saiyan compatriots but still keeping to his feet in the short time the Cell Jrs were carrying out Cell's directive to kill. There's more arguing to the contrary than him somehow just coming up a bit stronger than the base Saiyans in that time-frame.

I think the devs either thought that they would be forced to have Piccolo hundreds of times stronger than the saiyans with the BPs, or... I dunno. They could've simply scaled the SSJs with him. At the point I'm on, everybody is 9 mil max. Krillin is around 330k. Again, it stops making sense after the Frieza saga unfortunately.

It got too inflationary during the Freeza arc. Sure going from the mid 100s to 18,000 was a hefty jump, but it was framed in such a way that you could excuse it -- the antagonists hailed from a planet with an environment 10x worse than the one you grew up in your whole life, Goku was training in the afterlife for the first time with a mythical figure whose regimen was described as being equivalent to thousands of years worth of Earth training, ect. Goku still had to rely on an amplification technique that concentrated his strength just to be able to fight back.

During the Freeza battle, you had these rapid extraordinary jumps with little rhyme or reason to them. Much of it seemed to be fabricated to accommodate for this grossly oversized power level of the tyrant. They could have still sold the aura of invincibility of Freeza by keeping his power level in the hundreds of thousands with maybe some fraction of his manga strength like 1.2 million being the maximum. It's a leap but not one that's so grossly insurmountable that you're having to multiply everything to the point of absurdity just to keep the process of raising the stakes going.

Honestly? I kinda like Freeza being that strong. He is supposed to have conquered most of the known universe, after all. To me, what Toriyama could have done is saved Freeza's return as a later antagonist, while at the same time preserving SSj as that "legendary power" that defeated him. Have the Android arc be a build up to the return of Super Saiyan (after all, Gero had no idea of what happened at Namek, he couldn't possibly have build androids magnitudes above a level that would already be way overkill for the Goku he was expecting to face). We could have Goku come back when he did, but without access to Super Saiyan at the time. Hell, the return of Super Saiyan could come with the Room of Spirit and Time. Paint it as a big surprise. It would probably be less flashy that way, but it would prevent a little of the power creep that happened in DBZ.

To me, Freeza being finally surpassed for good with the return of SSj and the advent of Perfect Cell would have a huge impact. Because up to that point, Freeza and Super Saiyans (and Super Namekians) would be the top dogs of the story. With Cell reaching perfection and finally putting these guys to shame (helped by having their cells, after all), it would make for great tension. You can even have Trunks and Vegeta, in a futile attempt to stop him, press their bodies over their limits and unleash the infamous grades (although to no avail, showing once again that Cell was at a level beyond super saiyan).

IDK, that's just my idea of how we could make it work. But I have a bias for Freeza, so that may be it.

[Hugo Boss]

Okay guys! How strong do you think Moro has gotten over these last 2 months of sucking up planets? Do you think he has finally surpassed the likes of Jiren and Full Power Broly?

I don’t think it’s impossible, but I guess he is not the type of enemy that relies on raw strength to be formidable. Perhaps his strength is similar to theirs but his magic makes him excel.

[Omgzord]

Okay guys! How strong do you think Moro has gotten over these last 2 months of sucking up planets? Do you think he has finally surpassed the likes of Jiren and Full Power Broly?

It makes sense, considering the fact that the next enemy is usually always stronger than the previous enemy (with the exception of Beerus), with 2 months of sucking planets dry, it’s more than possible for him to have attained such power, right?

Remember how terrifyingly powerful Imperfect Cell became way back in Z, and he only absorbed the energy from humans alone, No plants, no birds, no animals, no rocks, no air, no planet itself, just a few hundred million humans, not even every human on this planet. Earth was just one planet, Moro absorbed MANY “whole” planets!

This is on a whole TOTALLY different scale than Imperfect Cell back than needless to say.

The showdown with Moro is getting too much build-up, he HAS to be stronger than Jiren and Broly or he will be a letdown ultimately.
I am sure he has more tricks up his sleeve besides energy absorption so we have to wait and see. Maybe his raw power won't be on the level of those 2 monsters but his other magic tricks should do the trick.

[Koitsukai]

It wouldn't make much sense to make him a millenial wizard or whatever and end up giving him the edge through raw power. It was the way they went with Hit.

[Koitsukai]

So, if Yamcha is the third strongest earthling, that means

1) Krilin
2) Tenshinhan (swap 1 and 2)
3) Yamcha?

or

1) Krilin
2) Roshi
3) Yamcha?

or

1) Gohan
2) Krilin
3) Yamcha?

[Thani]

Okay guys! How strong do you think Moro has gotten over these last 2 months of sucking up planets? Do you think he has finally surpassed the likes of Jiren and Full Power Broly?

It makes sense, considering the fact that the next enemy is usually always stronger than the previous enemy (with the exception of Beerus), with 2 months of sucking planets dry, it’s more than possible for him to have attained such power, right?

Remember how terrifyingly powerful Imperfect Cell became way back in Z, and he only absorbed the energy from humans alone, No plants, no birds, no animals, no rocks, no air, no planet itself, just a few hundred million humans, not even every human on this planet. Earth was just one planet, Moro absorbed MANY “whole” planets!

This is on a whole TOTALLY different scale than Imperfect Cell back than needless to say.

The showdown with Moro is getting too much build-up, he HAS to be stronger than Jiren and Broly or he will be a letdown ultimately.
I am sure he has more tricks up his sleeve besides energy absorption so we have to wait and see. Maybe his raw power won't be on the level of those 2 monsters but his other magic tricks should do the trick.

Maybe, but I'd argue he SHOULDN'T be. The difference in raw power from Jiren and Broly from Goku and Vegeta is gargantuan. Hell, regular SSj Broly was enough to force them to fuse. Moro can literally be as strong as regular SSj Broly and he would be far too much for our heroes currently to handle.

Universe 7 producing YET another character stronger than a God of Destruction would be convenient as hell (although, in Moro's case, is somewhat justified since he's not normally this powerful).