Zarely wrote: ↑
Fri Jan 17, 2020 7:40 pm
How would people rank all these Saiyan in their Base form from strongest to weakest?
Goku, Vegeta, Gohan, Cabba, Caulifla, Kale, Future Trunks.
Well, since their power varies in each medium, I'll just list them both.
- Goku and Vegeta are roughly equals. That much haven't changed apart from Vegeta's training in the time chamber - still, since the power he used to own Black has not been relevant in the ToP, it was either a one-time deal or Goku caught up with him. Equals.
- Gohan was seen roughly on par with Goku in his normal form after recovering his Potential Unleashed state and training some more with Piccolo.
- Cabba didn't appear to have trained since the U6 Arc, but even if he has, let's assume he got a little behind everyone else.
- Caulifla simply matched Goku in equivalent forms, so they're equally matched, which means she's equal to Gohan and Vegeta.
- Future Trunks, in the anime, was able to somewhat match Goku's SSj2 with his own SSj2. Since then, I'd assume he got a little behind since they trained to prepare for the ToP.
- Finally, Kale. Outside of her Berserk/Legendary/Full Power form, she's a weakling. By far the weakest one here, and even weaker than the fodder in the Tournament of Power (which isn't supposed to say much, since they are the strongest in their universes). She's bottom of the list.
- Goku and Vegeta are once again regarded as equals. If anything, Goku might be a little bit stronger.
- Despite his showings in the ToP, Gohan is still regarded to be only second best without Goku around, even with his Ultimate state. So he might be overall weaker than Goku, transformations aside.
- Caulifla never fought Goku so we have no way of knowing. She IS stronger than Cabba, tho, who was evenly matched with Vegeta in the U6 Tournament.
- Future Trunks should be equal. He matched Goku in equivalent forms and even overwhelmed his SSj3 with his enhanced SSj2.
- Finally, manga Kale is a MONSTER. She, in her base, is stronger than Caulifla as a SSj. Let that sink in. It would be no surprise if she was actually stronger or as strong, in base, as Goku and Vegeta in SSj as well.
Sadala Elite wrote: ↑
Fri Jan 17, 2020 6:01 pm
Miracles wrote: ↑
Fri Jan 17, 2020 5:27 pm
Sadala Elite wrote: ↑
Fri Jan 17, 2020 5:13 pm
unanimously translated that way. Plus in that scene, Jiren was also fighting Post-2nd Omen SSB Goku at the same time, so Jiren couldn't have been holding back more than before.
Doesn't change the facts that the story stated Jiren was holding back against Vegeta.
The point was that an accurate translation says Jiren didn't
hold back more against Vegeta. What Vegeta was meant to say in that scene was like "haha you were doing better against Kakarot".
Well, that is... Technically
correct. Especially since Vegeta said it after
dodging Jiren's barrage. Still, I would not use it as evidence to suggest that Vegeta is stronger than First Omen Goku or even SSBKK Goku..... Also, to be fair, the way I took it, his wording was referring to Jiren's fight against SSB Goku, since, you know... Jiren did better against SSB Goku than against SSB Vegeta, which would fit in the mocking narrative he spinned. Vegeta talking about First Omen Goku would make, well, Vegeta insanely more powerful than he needs to be, narratively speaking.
To me it sounded not that Jiren was holding back, but rather that Vegeta got the better of him at that moment - he studied his movements beforehand, after all, and after that solid blow he went on the offensive, forcing Jiren on the defensive, which didn't lasted long.