Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

[PurestEvil]

American release in June? Ah well, that's only two months of dodging spoilers for dub-fans

[kemuri07]

Their sense of humor is great. Their techniques are one of the series' most unique ones.
Heck DBS wouldn't even be a thing without these two reviving the series.

Yes, past Toriyama made Gods who were usually weaker than Goku but who's to say he needed to continue the trend? It already got stale with Kaioshin not being much of help in the Buu saga.

I ain’t talking about that it’s the fact that we have more of these pests than needed and they were as useless as Shin. Beerus and Whis should be antagonists them being the “good guys” makes zero sense. Him Shin and Whis are more responsible for U7 being second to last and almost getting their Universe destroyed not Goku.

Than you have Broly Beerus refused to go with them and help them. What makes it worse is when Goku says Broly might be stronger than Beerus. So Goku and Vegeta who don’t have UI and UE are dealing with a destroyer level or possibly higher opponent. And his only response at the end is everything turned out okay. I won’t get to Moro or how he and Whis messed up.


It’s no wonder he was treated as Zeno horsey

I honestly don't know what your beef is. More importantly, since their first appearance both Beerus and Whis have been adamant about being lawful neutral. They're not bad guys. Beerus is an asshole but he's very much the definition of a punch clock hero. They believe they have no real stake in Goku and Co's and are more than comfortable with sitting on the sidelines. That's kind of their thing.

If they did intervene then there wouldn't be a show.

[KentMan]

Their sense of humor is great. Their techniques are one of the series' most unique ones.
Heck DBS wouldn't even be a thing without these two reviving the series.

Yes, past Toriyama made Gods who were usually weaker than Goku but who's to say he needed to continue the trend? It already got stale with Kaioshin not being much of help in the Buu saga.

I ain’t talking about that it’s the fact that we have more of these pests than needed and they were as useless as Shin. Beerus and Whis should be antagonists them being the “good guys” makes zero sense. Him Shin and Whis are more responsible for U7 being second to last and almost getting their Universe destroyed not Goku.

Than you have Broly Beerus refused to go with them and help them. What makes it worse is when Goku says Broly might be stronger than Beerus. So Goku and Vegeta who don’t have UI and UE are dealing with a destroyer level or possibly higher opponent. And his only response at the end is everything turned out okay. I won’t get to Moro or how he and Whis messed up.


It’s no wonder he was treated as Zeno horsey

I honestly don't know what your beef is. More importantly, since their first appearance both Beerus and Whis have been adamant about being lawful neutral. They're not bad guys. Beerus is an asshole but he's very much the definition of a punch clock hero. They believe they have no real stake in Goku and Co's and are more than comfortable with sitting on the sidelines. That's kind of their thing.

If they did intervene then there wouldn't be a show.

If Goku and Vegeta are dealing with foes that are stronger than Beerus or Whis wouldn’t they get involved? Like with Broly who’s been compared to Beerus and maybe some future character that Toriyama might make stronger than Whis?

[capsulecorp]

If Goku and Vegeta are dealing with foes that are stronger than Beerus or Whis wouldn’t they get involved? Like with Broly who’s been compared to Beerus and maybe some future character that Toriyama might make stronger than Whis?

You never know until it happens. Whis did rewind time to save earth, but it's unclear why. Maybe for the food, maybe because he's becoming at least somewhat attached to the gang!

As far as foes stronger than Whis, outside of other gods there probably are not any.

[KentMan]

You never know until it happens. Whis did rewind time to save earth, but it's unclear why. Maybe for the food, maybe because he's becoming at least somewhat attached to the gang!

As far as foes stronger than Whis, outside of other gods there probably are not any.

He rewind time because of Beerus orders if I recall correctly.

I love the word “probably” like I hope Toriyama doesn’t make a mortal stronger than Whis.

[ZeroNeonix]

They can't dangle the gods as a carrot on a stick forever. Eventually, the students have to surpass the master. They'll probably save that for when they know the series is going to end. There also could be evil deities stronger than Beerus or Whis. Every universe presumably has its own demon realm, which could be hiding all sorts of powerful enemies. Unfortunate that non-canon material has already done that idea to death.

[KentMan]

They can't dangle the gods as a carrot on a stick forever. Eventually, the students have to surpass the master. They'll probably save that for when they know the series is going to end. There also could be evil deities stronger than Beerus or Whis. Every universe presumably has its own demon realm, which could be hiding all sorts of powerful enemies. Unfortunate that non-canon material has already done that idea to death.

I’m not certain anymore whether Goku is weaker than Beerus or not this current arc raises a lot of Questions.

[capsulecorp]

He rewind time because of Beerus orders if I recall correctly.

Whis doesn't take orders from Beerus. He may humor him sometimes, but at the end of the day Beerus is the pet and Whis is the master.

[Thani]

He rewind time because of Beerus orders if I recall correctly.

Whis doesn't take orders from Beerus. He may humor him sometimes, but at the end of the day Beerus is the pet and Whis is the master.

Not actually true. Whenever Beerus gives Whis an order, he complies.

The angels' job is to guide the gods of a given universe, but most also serve them despite being much stronger. Mostly because, being neutral beings, angels don't have any actual power in the universe and don't really mind obeying orders.

[PurestEvil]

He rewind time because of Beerus orders if I recall correctly.

Whis doesn't take orders from Beerus. He may humor him sometimes, but at the end of the day Beerus is the pet and Whis is the master.

Not actually true. Whenever Beerus gives Whis an order, he complies.

The angels' job is to guide the gods of a given universe, but most also serve them despite being much stronger. Mostly because, being neutral beings, angels don't have any actual power in the universe and don't really mind obeying orders.

Huh, that kind of resembles the relationship between a cat and a human owner

[kemuri07]

I ain’t talking about that it’s the fact that we have more of these pests than needed and they were as useless as Shin. Beerus and Whis should be antagonists them being the “good guys” makes zero sense. Him Shin and Whis are more responsible for U7 being second to last and almost getting their Universe destroyed not Goku.

Than you have Broly Beerus refused to go with them and help them. What makes it worse is when Goku says Broly might be stronger than Beerus. So Goku and Vegeta who don’t have UI and UE are dealing with a destroyer level or possibly higher opponent. And his only response at the end is everything turned out okay. I won’t get to Moro or how he and Whis messed up.


It’s no wonder he was treated as Zeno horsey

I honestly don't know what your beef is. More importantly, since their first appearance both Beerus and Whis have been adamant about being lawful neutral. They're not bad guys. Beerus is an asshole but he's very much the definition of a punch clock hero. They believe they have no real stake in Goku and Co's and are more than comfortable with sitting on the sidelines. That's kind of their thing.

If they did intervene then there wouldn't be a show.

If Goku and Vegeta are dealing with foes that are stronger than Beerus or Whis wouldn’t they get involved? Like with Broly who’s been compared to Beerus and maybe some future character that Toriyama might make stronger than Whis?

Because Beerus doesn't care. That's a big part of his character--he doesn't really give a shit. Him staying with Goku and co--outside of needing them so the entire universe doesn't get wiped from existence--is really due to his own entertainment (and food) than any moral obligation to Goku or the earth. Of course, I'm sure down the road it'll be revealed that he does actually care--Goku has a tendency to do that to people-- and yes there will be some kind of conflict that forces Beerus and Whis to become active characters, but for the most part, Whis and Beerus don't get involved.

[kemuri07]

He rewind time because of Beerus orders if I recall correctly.

Whis doesn't take orders from Beerus. He may humor him sometimes, but at the end of the day Beerus is the pet and Whis is the master.

Not actually true. Whenever Beerus gives Whis an order, he complies.

The angels' job is to guide the gods of a given universe, but most also serve them despite being much stronger. Mostly because, being neutral beings, angels don't have any actual power in the universe and don't really mind obeying orders.

Whis is very much on that "for the realm" type shit. I.e. Whis could easily decimate everyone 10x over, including Beerus if he chose too. But its in Whis' best interest to preserve the status quo as much as he can.

[ZeroNeonix]

People always bring up that page to show how uncaring Beerus is. He knew that the Namekians were in danger, and yes, he did not care what happened to them. But one crucial detail a lot of people seem to miss is that Beerus never knew that Goku and Vegeta were on New Namek. Whis didn't mention them in his report. If he had, I expect Beerus' reaction would have been a little different. Maybe he would have expressed confidence in their abilities, considering they were two of the strongest mortals in the multiverse. Worst case scenario, Earth's Dragon Balls could be used to revive them.

Manga spoilers:

Spoiler:

We did see that Beerus was willing to fight to defeat Moro near the end of the arc, but he was called away by the Grand Priest at the last second. It was then that he acted like he would never help, because he has a duty not to meddle, but in reality, he just had to trust that Goku would take care of it himself. He pretends he doesn't care, but when there are few other options, he has no trouble taking sides to protect the Earth. Part of that is because of the food on Earth, sure. But I think there has been an unspoken fondness for Goku ever since Battle of Gods. Since he's spent a lot of time with Vegeta, even training him to learn Ultra Ego in the manga, I expect he has a secret attachment to Vegeta too.

[capsulecorp]

Whis doesn't take orders from Beerus. He may humor him sometimes, but at the end of the day Beerus is the pet and Whis is the master.

Not actually true. Whenever Beerus gives Whis an order, he complies.

The angels' job is to guide the gods of a given universe, but most also serve them despite being much stronger. Mostly because, being neutral beings, angels don't have any actual power in the universe and don't really mind obeying orders.

Huh, that kind of resembles the relationship between a cat and a human owner

Exactly. Remember the final scene of BOG, Beerus gets a lot of leeway but when he needs to be shut down, Whis will do it.

[KentMan]

People always bring up that page to show how uncaring Beerus is. He knew that the Namekians were in danger, and yes, he did not care what happened to them. But one crucial detail a lot of people seem to miss is that Beerus never knew that Goku and Vegeta were on New Namek. Whis didn't mention them in his report. If he had, I expect Beerus' reaction would have been a little different. Maybe he would have expressed confidence in their abilities, considering they were two of the strongest mortals in the multiverse. Worst case scenario, Earth's Dragon Balls could be used to revive them.

Manga spoilers:

Spoiler:

We did see that Beerus was willing to fight to defeat Moro near the end of the arc, but he was called away by the Grand Priest at the last second. It was then that he acted like he would never help, because he has a duty not to meddle, but in reality, he just had to trust that Goku would take care of it himself. He pretends he doesn't care, but when there are few other options, he has no trouble taking sides to protect the Earth. Part of that is because of the food on Earth, sure. But I think there has been an unspoken fondness for Goku ever since Battle of Gods. Since he's spent a lot of time with Vegeta, even training him to learn Ultra Ego in the manga, I expect he has a secret attachment to Vegeta too.

No I’m pointing out how irresponsible he’s been ever since Moro and Majin Buu were causing destruction. And it was the Kai’s that had to deal with them in the past. And he for whatever reason forgot that if the Kai’s all die he does to.

Actually it’s more like he will give Goku a hand in beating Moro.

[Toxin45]

Who do you think is the secret antagonist again?

[FPSSJ4_Goku]

Who do you think is the secret antagonist again?

Of the movie? I personally think it'll be either a totally new weird robot creature thing made by Toriyama, a new version of Cell (dumbest option), a fusion of Gamma 1 and 2, making Gamma 3 (coolest option), or a new version of #13 (most unique option)

[ZeroNeonix]

Who do you think is the secret antagonist again?

If I had to make a wild guess, Gamma 1 and 2 are based on #17 and #18 of the original Red Ribbon army. The third will then be a new creature inspired by Cell. Perhaps while Gamma 1 and 2 are fighting, this third entity is absorbing the energy and/or battle data of the good guys. It may not look or act like Cell, but it will have the powers and skills of the good guys who are around.

But, of course, I'm just guessing based on the very limited information we have so far.

[Lukmendes]

In those cases, the character is usually shown reaching their highest form by the end of the fight. It's possible Gotenks struggles going SSJ3 due to lack of training like how Gohan wasn't sure if he could go SSJ1 in RoF. We know in EoZ that Goten and Trunks have been slacking off. In Super Hero, it seems that they'll mess up the fusion so they might've used fusion only in BoG and this is the second time since the Buu saga (based on the films only).

It's definitely a possibility that Gotenks is weak enough he can't transform, but neither in movie or anime he particularly took Beerus seriously, and it's even more noticeable in the anime where he doesn't even transform, it looked like he was just there for a quick gag where he gets beaten up and not much else, or at least that's how I see it.

It's not that weird, the writers (Toei) simply wanted to give Trunks a bigger role. Since the arc was the "Future Trunks" arc, they felt like Trunks should remain relevant throughout the arc, even when it made little sense, and give his part in the fight to save his world.

That's why Trunks at times was able to help in the fight against Zamasu and Black, even though, before looking for help in the past, he was constantly running away from Black. That's also why Trunks got the "Super Saiyan Rage" form and the Sword of Friendship power-up, the writers just wanted him to be relevant. And I guess that they also wanted him to get the win by ending Fused Zamasu. Even though what happens in the following episode completely invalidates his victory.

Regardless, what happens with Trunks is a case of the power levels bending to the needs of the writers. The writers wanted Trunks to play a major role in the battle to save his future against the twisted God, so they bent the story in a way that allowed Trunks to help in fights. Even though it didn't make complete sense.

Yeah and I find that to be pretty bad, mostly because the introduction has Trunks running away and not managing to any real damage to Black, and then Trunks manages to decently keep up with him even though Black transformed? It's just weird Black was looking stronger in the base form, not unlike GT Goku.

I think the Rage form is, pretty meh, but at least it gives him a reason to keep up with Black and Zamasu, but it makes it look pretty weird he kinda managed to keep up with Black before.

Also the sword moment seems to be a moment Toriyama wrote, since it's in both manga and anime, both have a "Infinite Zamasu" moment (And considering how different both are, Toriyama's notes must be hella vague), who gets killed by Zeno, so at the very least, this moment is possibly written in Toriyama's notes, and possibly not much else.

You never know until it happens. Whis did rewind time to save earth, but it's unclear why. Maybe for the food, maybe because he's becoming at least somewhat attached to the gang!

As far as foes stronger than Whis, outside of other gods there probably are not any.

Both movie and anime have Beerus saying something like "how embarrassing, a god of destruction restoring a planet...", even though Whis did it, I think the idea here is that Whis had Beerus' approval to restore the planet, which makes sense, since Angels generally have to stay neutral (Though they may act on their own, like at the end of BoG where Whis knocks down Beerus after Beerus ate something too spicy).

Of the movie? I personally think it'll be either a totally new weird robot creature thing made by Toriyama, a new version of Cell (dumbest option), a fusion of Gamma 1 and 2, making Gamma 3 (coolest option), or a new version of #13 (most unique option)

I don't see how making a new version of 13 would be unique, it's just recycling an old villain.

[Xeogran]

Who do you think is the secret antagonist again?

Someone who may not have enough time to be characterized because they'll come late into the play.
Unless that someone is either an old known character, or survives beyond this movie.

Judging at how the scientist is scared when it's emerging, it should be a serious threat, since the movie will be reaching it's climax by the time it emerges.

Just my observations.