What phrases/opinions/things bring out your irate fanboy?

[rereboy]

In the Buu saga Vegeta was shown to care so little that even in matters of interest to Vegeta (namely, training), Vegeta had not interacted with Trunks and, thus, had no idea he was a SSJ and the level of his power. And immediately after that, he intentionally went under Babidi's spell and kill thousands without thinking about anything else.

Better father figure indeed...

[DBZAOTA482]

In the Buu saga Vegeta was shown to care so little that even in matters of interest to Vegeta (namely, training), Vegeta had not interacted with Trunks and, thus, had no idea he was a SSJ and the level of his power. And immediately after that, he intentionally went under Babidi's spell and kill thousands without thinking about anything else.

Better father figure indeed...

Yes, indeed...

[fadeddreams5]

Vegeta in the Android saga was an unreformed sociopath. I never claimed Goku isn't affectionate or cares for his kids. Of course he does. Vegeta and Goku both care about their family. I just feel Vegeta is the better father figure in general, whereas Goku is more of a pal, and absent too much, either through choice or fate, to be much of a dad for Gohan. Piccolo grows to know him better.

How does a few years make up for the crap before? Even if Vegeta is around, that doesn't mean he was a great father. Proximity doesn't make him a good parent. Give examples of his good fatherhood.

While Goku is gone a lot, he's also around his family often off screen. He was there for Gohan the first 5 years of his life, then after Namek, he was there for 3 years, and after coming back he was there for about 7 of them. And how does Piccolo know Gohan better?

Vegeta's always been there off-screen. Trunks admires and respects him so much, as you can see in the Buu arc. Same goes for Gohan and his dad, only the latter isn't really around, so Vegeta wins by default. : )

In the Buu saga Vegeta was shown to care so little that even in matters of interest to Vegeta (namely, training), Vegeta had not interacted with Trunks and, thus, had no idea he was a SSJ and the level of his power. And immediately after that, he intentionally went under Babidi's spell and kill thousands without thinking about anything else.

Better father figure indeed...

Nobody's perfect, especially not an ex-psychopathic mercenary!

Also, Vegeta took Trunks to the park!

[ABED]

Trunks admires and respects him so much

How is that proof that he's a good father? Trunks didn't witness his father's psychopathic days, and even Future Trunks came away with a measure of respect and admiration for his dad. That doesn't make him a good father.

The things that irritate me the most is when I see people like the dub actors more than the JPN cast even during their VERY green days. It's even worse when they say the JPN actors are terrible. Another pet peeve is when people claim the Kai actors suck, Z was better.

[fadeddreams5]

Trunks admires and respects him so much

How is that proof that he's a good father? Trunks didn't witness his father's psychopathic days, and even Future Trunks came away with a measure of respect and admiration for his dad. That doesn't make him a good father.

It shows he's not a cold, bad father like some people assume. Trunks isn't a scarred little boy with a daddy who beats him. He loves his dad and looks up to him.

Another pet peeve is when people claim the Kai actors suck, Z was better.

This somewhat confuses me too. Except in the case of Android 18, and Gohan is understandable. Cell, despite having the same VA, sounds better in the original too for some reason.

[rereboy]

It shows he's not a cold, bad father like some people assume. Trunks isn't a scarred little boy with a daddy who beats him. He loves his dad and looks up to him.

There are plenty of kids that think that they fathers are the best even when they are horrible. That doesn't prove anything.

[fadeddreams5]

It shows he's not a cold, bad father like some people assume. Trunks isn't a scarred little boy with a daddy who beats him. He loves his dad and looks up to him.

There are plenty of kids that think that they fathers are the best even when they are horrible. That doesn't prove anything.

How is he horrible?!

You know, besides the impulsive punch... and not caring when his baby was nearly killed... and all his bonding moments with Future Trunks.

[rereboy]

How is he horrible?!

You know, besides the impulsive punch... and not caring when his baby was nearly killed... and all his bonding moments with Future Trunks.

I wasn't talking specifically about Vegeta. I was talking about any kid that loves his father and thinks he is the best even though there are horrible to everyone. There's plenty.

[DemonRin]

Most abused kids will actually defend their parents actually. It's very odd.

When I was little my mom was playing with me and tickling me on the couch, you know, typical stuff a first time mother might do with her toddler.

Anyway, during said playing and tickling, I fell off the couch and cut my head on the coffee table. Mom took me to the doctor, but said she was afraid to because I kept going "You pushed me!" to her, and she was afraid me telling the doctor that would get her thrown in jail.

The doctor ended up reassuring her that my insistence that she pushed me actually meant the exact opposite. Abused children will typically DEFEND their parents because to them, the abuse is normalized as horrible as that sounds. They're so used to it that they think it's normal, and therefore defend their parents. The fact that I was making a big deal out of it made it apparent to the doctor this was a rare occurrence.

Not saying this proves anything about Vegeta, but the point is, the assessment that bad fathers usually still get praise from their kids is VERY correct.

[fadeddreams5]

I agree.

Anyways, Goku isn't the worst father in the series. There's always Cell.

[DBZAOTA482]

^^Isn't Gohan really defensive of Goku?

I agree.

Anyways, Goku isn't the worst father in the series. There's always Cell.

Cell wanted the Cell Juniors to be happy and was angry when Gohan killed them.

[ABED]

^^Isn't Gohan really defensive of Goku?

I agree.

Anyways, Goku isn't the worst father in the series. There's always Cell.

Cell wanted the Cell Juniors to be happy and was angry when Gohan killed them.

That's putting the bar very low, but I take it you're kidding.

[DBZAOTA482]

^^Isn't Gohan really defensive of Goku?

I agree.

Anyways, Goku isn't the worst father in the series. There's always Cell.

Cell wanted the Cell Juniors to be happy and was angry when Gohan killed them.

That's putting the bar very low, but I take it you're kidding.

Maybe, maybe not.

[fadeddreams5]

I take back what I said. Those juniors came out of Cell, so he's technically the worst mother. This makes Goku the worst father in DBZ. King Cold is arguable.

[Demon of Light]

Vegeta was definitely a crap absent father before the Cell Saga. Afterwards, though? The first thing he's doing in the Buu Saga is coming out of training with Trunks - he's involving him in what's arguably the most important thing in his life (that he doesn't know that Trunks is SSJ yet is another thing altogether). And he's proud of that little brat, too. He still has a terrible personality and suffers from emotional constipation, so he's not really Father of the Year material, but he really cares for his family and is hardly the abusive and horrible father that a lot of the fandom is convinced he is. And that is my pet peeve, people having misconceptions about Vegeta as a highly flawed family man.

I think Goku is a better father than people give him credit for, but he's definitely kind of a selfish idiot too and I'm less invested in defending him than I am in defending Vegeta.

[Gaffer Tape]

Vegeta was definitely a crap absent father before the Cell Saga.

I suppose that's true, but since Vegeta wasn't a father at all before the Cell arc...

Anyway, I think people react too strongly to FUNimation (and to a lesser extent Toei) making Goku into this paragon of righteousness, so to make up for it they say he's a selfish asshole and a terrible father. Goku's a pretty great father, actually. I mean, how many fathers can say they've sacrificed themselves for their sons... twice?

[Demon of Light]

Vegeta was definitely a crap absent father before the Cell Saga.

I suppose that's true, but since Vegeta wasn't a father at all before the Cell arc...

Well, you know what I mean, in the 10~ months or so of Trunks' existence before the arrival of the Androids and all that. Semantics.

[Kid Buu]

I suppose that's true, but since Vegeta wasn't a father at all before the Cell arc...

Anyway, I think people react too strongly to FUNimation (and to a lesser extent Toei) making Goku into this paragon of righteousness, so to make up for it they say he's a selfish asshole and a terrible father. Goku's a pretty great father, actually. I mean, how many fathers can say they've sacrificed themselves for their sons... twice?

That's only as far as the audience knows. Vegeta could have a little Lars Alexandersson out there longed before he ever met Bulma.

Also, I wouldn't blame this "Goku's a bad parent" meme on FUNi. Toriyama lists it as one of Goku's character quirks, and he gets asked about it in interviews, so we know Goku gets accused of being a bad parent in a country where the FUNi dub was never even relevant.

[ABED]

I suppose that's true, but since Vegeta wasn't a father at all before the Cell arc...

Anyway, I think people react too strongly to FUNimation (and to a lesser extent Toei) making Goku into this paragon of righteousness, so to make up for it they say he's a selfish asshole and a terrible father. Goku's a pretty great father, actually. I mean, how many fathers can say they've sacrificed themselves for their sons... twice?

That's only as far as the audience knows. Vegeta could have a little Lars Alexandersson out there longed before he ever met Bulma.

Also, I wouldn't blame this "Goku's a bad parent" meme on FUNi. Toriyama lists it as one of Goku's character quirks, and he gets asked about it in interviews, so we know Goku gets accused of being a bad parent in a country where the FUNi dub was never even relevant.

But do we know the exact context of the quotes? He could be saying it in a joking manner. Goku's not the best father, but he's still a good father.

[DBZAOTA482]

^Toriyama's chuckled at the end of every straight answer.

So Vegeta has something to be proud of:

Better father, better husband (possibly), better friend (look at how he reacted to Gohan's death compared to Goku), and remains undefeated against Goku.