Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" Dub Turns 16; Still Unreleased

[Ringworm128]

At this point I've got a feeling this dub will never actually air, or go on sale and we'll eventually see this dub via bootleg YouTube uploads. Ironically just like the Westwood dub of Z.

But we only got those "bootleg uploads" because it aired on television. That gave fans the opportunity to record it. Without a broadcast we'll likely never see any footage of it ever which is why it's so important that this gets aired.

Stuff doesn't need to air to be leaked. Just look at the Orsen Welles "frozen peas" commercial outtakes, and they were leaked before the internet became huge.

[TheBlackPaladin]

Be that as it may, if somebody were to leak these episodes, they'd be the subject of an enormous lawsuit.

But hey, bigger leaks have happened. JJ Abrams wrote a script for a Superman movie in the early 2000's that leaked. I think it actually would have made a good movie, but I'm conflicted over whether or not it would have made a good Superman movie. So were the fans, many of who were so outraged by the changes to the source material and mythology that the negative reaction started a chain reaction that led to Warner Brothers going in a totally different direction.

[Ringworm128]

Be that as it may, if somebody were to leak these episodes, they'd be the subject of an enormous lawsuit.

But who would ever know?

[NitroEX]

At this point I've got a feeling this dub will never actually air, or go on sale and we'll eventually see this dub via bootleg YouTube uploads. Ironically just like the Westwood dub of Z.

But we only got those "bootleg uploads" because it aired on television. That gave fans the opportunity to record it. Without a broadcast we'll likely never see any footage of it ever which is why it's so important that this gets aired.

Stuff doesn't need to air to be leaked. Just look at the Orsen Welles "frozen peas" commercial outtakes, and they were leaked before the internet became huge.

As much as I wish it would, it's just not going to happen realistically. This is Ocean studios we're talking about, they've never let anything get leaked before and they're likely even more cautious in the internet age we currently live in. Even actors who've worked for them have gone on record saying they've had no luck getting any footage from the company and these are people who legitimately needed the stuff for their professional demo reels. Yes, there are plenty of media companies out there that do leak things but truthfully I don't think Ocean is one of them.

[Nejishiki]

Be that as it may, if somebody were to leak these episodes, they'd be the subject of an enormous lawsuit.

But hey, bigger leaks have happened. JJ Abrams wrote a script for a Superman movie in the early 2000's that leaked. I think it actually would have made a good movie, but I'm conflicted over whether or not it would have made a good Superman movie. So were the fans, many of who were so outraged by the changes to the source material and mythology that the negative reaction started a chain reaction that led to Warner Brothers going in a totally different direction.

Unrelated, but you'd think a practice of "tactical leaks" would become common, with past experience in mind. It's essentially a free pass to gauge interest. They'll have the option to update and improve whatever they want, keeping it fresh from the "accidental" release. Of course, a team utilizing this method wouldn't guarantee quality with their reactionary changes. It just amuses me that a studio hasn't worked this way for cheap appeal, to my knowledge.

[TheBlackPaladin]

Be that as it may, if somebody were to leak these episodes, they'd be the subject of an enormous lawsuit.

But who would ever know?

Oooooooh trust me, some investigations would be conducted.

Nowadays, anybody can create content, but the higher up the corporate show biz ladder you climb, the more companies are concerned about leaks and consider them a big deal. This is also true in Japan's case. Japanese corporate culture is such that they take the idea of trust very, very seriously, and dubbing studios have been known to lose Japanese clients due to people talking when they shouldn't have (which is one of several reasons that dubbing companies take the breaking of NDAs super-seriously). If 98 episodes were to leak, it would not be a, "Oh, well that kinda sucks"-thing. They'd definitely look into finding out who leaked it.

As for how they'd do that, I'm not a tech expert, so I couldn't go into great detail about the specifics, but precautions are taken at every level. For example, with the aforementioned Superman movie, the actors said that they were not allowed to take the scripts home, they actually had to drive onto the Warner Brothers lot, turn over their phones, and sit in a room to read the script. All of the scripts had a unique ID number/watermark as well, so that way if the script ever leaked, they would know who was responsible (either for leaking it directly or irresponsibly losing it so someone else could steal it and leak it).

As it pertains to the Ocean dub of Kai, I'd have to imagine that the episodes are all probably on a hard drive somewhere inside Ocean Studios in Vancouver. So, either somebody would have to go in there and physically steal them (which would automatically narrow down the number of suspects since there are only so many people with that level of access to Ocean Studios), or they'd have to hack in. I'm no expert on cyber-security, but I'd have to imagine that an IP address cold be traced. Bottom line, if there's one thing Edward Snowden has taught us, it's that there are tons and tons of ways of monitoring someone's internet activity and identifying potential internet criminals. Of course, I highly doubt that the US government would be concerned with the leak of a dub of an anime series produced by a Canadian production company, but you get the idea. The point is, there are ways.

[simtek34]

I'm supposed nobody has asked Mr.Drummord if he will say 8000.

[sangofe]

I'm supposed nobody has asked Mr.Drummord if he will say 8000.

Ya meant "surprised", yo?

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

I'm supposed nobody has asked Mr.Drummord if he will say 8000.

It's anyone's guess really. While we have heard the producers want to correct pronunciations and cast characters with the spirit of the Japanese version in mind (Goku most notably) there are other signs it will be somewhat kid friendly (a good indicator of this is the leaked theme song). I do hope the scripts will at least retain the accuracy of Funimation's Kai as I long for the day to hear Scott McNeil say "Makankosappo".

[Attitudefan]

I think the Ocean Kai demo song was produced to allow for Canadian content. There's been a few instances of intros being changed for which I assume is to have it be considered Canadian content. "Beasties" is something I remember fondly but apparently in the States it was called "Beast Wars". Nothing else in the show was edited (to my knowledge) except for a title of the show change and slight alterations to the opening music. Probably, by doing these two things, bypassed the Cancon law as it was considered enough to be Canadian produced content.

Even by having name changes for the entire show probably is a legal loophole to show that it is now a Canadian show rather than an American one. It could also be considered a censored title too, probably done to syndicate it during time slots that may be okay in the USA but not in Canada (but this is my own speculation; I wouldn't be surprised if both reasons were the cause for such title changes).

To assume it is censored, it is a possibility. But from my own anecdotal experiences, Canadian television is way more relaxed on censors than American television (such as swear words and sexual content being allowed to be shown under a lower rating than their American counterparts). But I don't have cold hard facts to prove that. Anyhow, altering the intro alone could be enough to make it Canadian.

[NitroEX]

If I'm not mistakes I think Beast Wars and Beast Machines were both entirely Canadian productions. The animation was done by a Canadian studio called Mainframe Entertainment (now called Rainmaker) and the voice work was all Canadian actors too. I'm not sure about the music but it was probably done in Canada as well. There's no way those shows wouldn't count as Canadian content as the majority of the work done on it was Canadian. As for the name change, that was most likely just censorship since similar things have happened to other shows like Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles being changed to Teenage Mutant Hero Turtles in the UK, presumably because words like "War" and "Ninja" were deemed by someone as too violent for kids (which is stupid).

There have been other reasons for name changes such as with Batman Beyond being changed to Batman of the Future in the UK. Apparently this was due to another company holding the rights to the name "Beyond" or something like that.

As for Ocean's dub of Kai, we know it has Canadian actors along with the soundtrack being Canadian. On top of that we know there's additional sound effects included which were likely done over there as well, they probably also translated their own scripts this time too. I'd imagine all of this would help the show be approved for Canadian content. As far as I'm aware the rules don't require a show to be 100% Canadian, they just need it to meet a certain quota. Apparently American shows get away with hiring Canadian staff members along with a few Canadian born actors and their shows pass with no problem.

Funimation's Kai would most likely not pass as Canadian content as it was all done in Texas, however they did have Ocean credited for edits in the Nicktoons dub so you never know. Perhaps Dartanian Nickelback would be enough to tip the scales

[Attitudefan]

If I'm not mistakes I think Beast Wars and Beast Machines were both entirely Canadian productions. The animation was done by a Canadian studio called Mainframe Entertainment (now called Rainmaker) and the voice work was all Canadian actors too. I'm not sure about the music but it was probably done in Canada as well. There's no way those shows wouldn't count as Canadian content as the majority of the work done on it was Canadian. As for the name change, that was most likely just censorship since similar things have happened to other shows like Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles being changed to Teenage Mutant Hero Turtles in the UK, presumably because words like "War" and "Ninja" were deemed by someone as too violent for kids (which is stupid).

There have been other reasons for name changes such as with Batman Beyond being changed to Batman of the Future in the UK. Apparently this was due to another company holding the rights to the name "Beyond" or something like that.

As for Ocean's dub of Kai, we know it has Canadian actors along with the soundtrack being Canadian. On top of that we know there's additional sound effects included which were likely done over there as well, they probably also translated their own scripts this time too. I'd imagine all of this would help the show be approved for Canadian content. As far as I'm aware the rules don't require a show to be 100% Canadian, they just need it to meet a certain quota. Apparently American shows get away with hiring Canadian staff members along with a few Canadian born actors and their shows pass with no problem.

Funimation's Kai would most likely not pass as Canadian content as it was all done in Texas, however they did have Ocean credited for edits in the Nicktoons dub so you never know. Perhaps Dartanian Nickelback would be enough to tip the scales

Oh yes, I do realize Beasties/Beast Wars was mostly a Canadian production, and was a really bad example but it's the only one that came to mind

It does make me wonder how much needs to be aired, since in the mid-2000s stuff like Spongebob dominated the animation portion of Canadian television and that is a wholly American product. Corus Entertainment (The broadcast corporation under the Shaw umbrella) owns localized versions of Nickelodeon and Disney so that is probably why they can air 100% American shows. Yet, I feel, that must be some loophole in the Cancon laws since the shows themselves are still fully American. Unless, because Corus owns Nickelodeon, somehow legally Spongebob et al. are considered partially Canadian owned products since a Canadian company owns the products (partially or fully in some capacity). I dunno.

Apparently, "[t]o fulfill Canadian content requirements, [Nickelodeon] also airs series sourced from Corus' other kids channels," such as Nick Jr. with Canadian produced content aired in daytime timeslots. (From Wikipedia's Nickelodeon page). So they air a bunch of foreign (American mostly) television shows in the evening and nights but air enough Canadian content in the day to fulfill some sort of minimum amount of hours of Canadian-made shows on a network. So they can spam foreign produced shows as long as within the day enough hours were dedicated to Canadian content. A television show (like a cartoon) and Canadian content don't have to be mutually exclusive it seems.

If that is the case, it is probably why anime is never seen on Canadian TV because the anime is not produced by Viacom/Corus/Shaw. Unless Corus or it's affiliates would license anime, it is unlikely that anime will make the airwaves. Corus basically has a monopoly on Canadian broadcasting so it's probably a really hard sell to get them to license Dragon Ball or other Japanese anime since Corus, by technicality, produces their own cartoons in Canada or in the USA. That's a huge bummer.

[NitroEX]

It does make me wonder how much needs to be aired, since in the mid-2000s stuff like Spongebob dominated the animation portion of Canadian television and that is a wholly American product. Corus Entertainment (The broadcast corporation under the Shaw umbrella) owns localized versions of Nickelodeon and Disney so that is probably why they can air 100% American shows. Yet, I feel, that must be some loophole in the Cancon laws since the shows themselves are still fully American. Unless, because Corus owns Nickelodeon, somehow legally Spongebob et al. are considered partially Canadian owned products since a Canadian company owns the products (partially or fully in some capacity). I dunno.

I think the channels are allowed to broadcast some American shows that don't have Canadian content but they just need to make sure a certain percentage of the other shows on offer are in some way Canadian. That's my understanding of it.

[Super Sayian Prime]

No, Beast Wars and War Planets had their names changed in Canada because at the time YTV felt uncomfortable marketing children's shows with the word "War" in the title. Yes, that is like putting a bandage on a shotgun wound. Yes, one of the most popular children's media franchises of all time is called Star Wars, but hey, Shadow Raiders is a better title than War Planets anyway.

Those names changes were largely exclusive to Canadian broadcast. Beasties in particular was a mess. The toys always wore the US name, the syndicated version seen on FOX affiliates carried on Canadian cable used that name, and even the Canada-only DVD releases did the same (Notice the tagline? lol). War Planets seemed to get renamed to War Planets: Shadow Raiders upon re-releases, so that name stuck.

About Canadian content laws: We're not a communist country ruled by a dictator. Foreign programming is allowed to air on television. The CRTC just implements limits on each specific service. For YTV and Teletoon, I believe they have to devote about 60% of their broadcast year to Canadian productions. It gets even more granular than that, often specifying time slots (so the channels don't just dump everything Canadian to off-hours) and shows produced by companies unrelated to the broadcaster. The rules differ for every channel.

Programs dubbed in Canada counts as 50% the value of a program fully produced in Canada. In 2009, Corus Entertainment attempted to get that bumped up to 75%, but had their request denied by the CRTC.

[8000 Saiyan]

Since Goku and Frieza have been replaced, I wonder who they'll cast as Future Trunks and Cell.

[NitroEX]

Since Goku and Frieza have been replaced, I wonder who they'll cast as Future Trunks and Cell.

No one knows yet. Alistair Abell and Dale Wilson were both still active during the years this was dubbed so there's a good chance they both auditioned again. That being said, Kirby Morrow did re audition for Goku and was turned down so there's a possibility they chose new actors this time.

This dub's cast is also comprised of Blue Water actors so Matthew Erickson could have also reprised the role of Trunks too. I personally think they would go with a Vancouver actor for Trunks since he is a pretty big role but I could be wrong.

[8000 Saiyan]

No one knows yet. Alistair Abell and Dale Wilson were both still active during the years this was dubbed so there's a good chance they both auditioned again. That being said, Kirby Morrow did re audition for Goku and was turned down so there's a possibility they chose new actors this time.

The dub's cast is also comprised of Blue Water actors so Matthew Erickson could have also reprised the role of Trunks too. I personally think they would go with a Vancouver actor for Trunks since he is a pretty big role but I could be wrong.

I think that Paul Dobson would be a much better choice for Cell than Dale Wilson. The guy is one of my favorite Vancouver voice actors and he has the range to pull off all three forms. Plus, he is usually the best part of anything he's in and rarely gives a bad performance.

As for Trunks, I seriously hope Abell or Erickson (he's a Vancouver actor now) don't voice him. They were miscast, with Abell sounding too old and Erickson sounding too wimpy. I would love to see either Kirby Morrow or Vincent Tong in the role.

[TheBlackPaladin]

I would love to see either Kirby Morrow or Vincent Tong in the role.

I could always be wrong, but I'd be shocked if they got Morrow. It was never disclosed what kind of trouble he got in, but it was revealed by Kirbopher on a Kanzenshuu podcast that he got in major trouble for revealing what he did about the Ocean dub of Kai.

[NitroEX]

I think that Paul Dobson would be a much better choice for Cell than Dale Wilson. The guy is one of my favorite Vancouver voice actors and he has the range to pull off all three forms. Plus, he is usually the best part of anything he's in and rarely gives a bad performance.

As for Trunks, I seriously hope Abell or Erickson don't voice him. They were miscast, with Abell sounding too old and Erickson sounding too wimpy. I would love to see either Kirby Morrow or Vincent Tong in the role.

Paul Dobson could definitely make for a good Perfect Cell however I don't see him being great in the previous forms. I still have a preference for the voice Dale Wilson used for Imperfect Cell as it was very serpentine, full of character and appropriately creepy sounding, I think it would be a shame to see that to go however being in his 60's the role might have been too intense for him to come back. If that was the case, I'd be open to a new interpretation. I definitely have faith in Ocean's casting choices as they've been great the majority of the time.

I don't agree with you on Abell and Erickson being miscast. Erickson did fine for a softer version of the character that GT portrayed whilst Abell sounded appropriate for a hardened future version, Abell only sounds too old if you're comparing him directly to Eric Vale or Erickson but in the context of Z I think the voice worked. If I had to cast someone new I'd probably go for Andrew Francis, he'd be a great fit especially if he used a similar voice to his Chiaki Mamiya.

Kirby Morrow seems to be better at portraying characters that are more peppy and high spirited, Future Trunks has more of a dark and sombre personality so I don't see him being able to convey that as effectively. I haven't heard much of Vincent Tong to imagine him as Trunks.

[8000 Saiyan]

Paul Dobson could definitely make for a good Perfect Cell however I don't see him being great in the previous forms.

I think Paul Dobson could pull off Imperfect Cell with a variation of his Nidhiki from Bionicle, and as for Semi-Perfect Cell, he would use an awkward version of his E.O. Captain from Black Lagoon.

If I had to cast someone new I'd probably go for Andrew Francis, he'd be a great fit especially if he used a similar voice to his Chiaki Mamiya.

Now that I think about it, I think you may have a point on Andrew Francis being a great fit for Trunks.

For other casting choices, I would love to see Maryke Hendrikse as Bulma, although Kelly Sheridan and Rebecca Shoichet could fit her too. For Recoome, I would go with Colin Murdock or Mark Gibbon, Garry Chalk for King Cold, Peter New for Oolong and Guldo, Nicole Oliver for Android 18, Alessandro Juliani for 19 and Brian Dobson for 16, French Tickner for Roshi. The other supporting characters don't need to be replaced.

I'm glad Saffron Henderson is back as Kid Gohan, and I hope she doesn't disappoint in the Super Saiyan 2 transformation. As for Drummond and McNeil, I always preferred them over Sabat, and I could see them outclass his performances in Kai.