The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

[SupremeKai25]

Zamasu doesn't need to have lost raw power - he's immortal, after all. But his meltdown was supposed to impair him - he started doing worse against Vegito, was barely coherent, half of his body was goo, etc.

He was slower, his faulty immortality was exhausted after enduring so many attacks, and so on. That doesn't take away from Trunks' feat - his genki sword still had to overpower both Zamasu's ki and his body.

I don't think Trunks' can physically tag the likes of SSBE Vegeta, SSB Goku with the kaioken, GoD Toppo, etc - it's still just SSRage Trunks wielding a powerful sword. He CAN deliver considerable damage to them if he manages to hit, though. At least, it's what I believe.

It does take away from Trunks' feat. A lot.

Because it means that, if Fused Zamasu was "fresh" (i.e. he hadn't exhausted himself from fighting a SSB Fusion), he wouldn't have lost to Trunks.

Even in his weakened state, the fight between Trunks and Zamasu was still very close.

The point here is that Fused Zamasu is stronger than 99% of the fighters in the ToP. Trunks and SSB Vegito scale accordingly using Fused Zamasu as basis.

And Yes btw, I don't think that Trunks could tag those people. And he only tagged Fused Zamasu because Zamasu underestimated him/wanted to fight him in close combat. But if he does tag those people (so let's be generous and assume he has the speed to do so), I think he oneshots everyone except MUI Goku and Jiren. We are led to believe that his sword of friendship is simply that powerful.

[Peach]

Android 17 (T.O.P.) vs. Beerus (in Battle of Gods)

How would Android 17 perform? Would he present a challenge to Beerus or get any shots in that could wound him, like he did with Jiren?

[ZombieVito]

Android 17 (T.O.P.) vs. Beerus (in Battle of Gods)

How would Android 17 perform? Would he present a challenge to Beerus or get any shots in that could wound him, like he did with Jiren?

Beerus would need to be a lot less suppressed to even touch 17.

[MrGohanks]

Here's an equal stats battle:

Merged Zamasu (no immortality but he can still potentially become Infinite Zamasu)

VS

Super 17 from GT

Who wins?

[SupremeKai25]

Here's an equal stats battle:

Merged Zamasu (no immortality but he can still potentially become Infinite Zamasu)

VS

Super 17 from GT

Who wins?

Fused Zamasu oneshots, Super reaches Universal levels in BoG while GT becomes Universal only with Omega Shenron (who btw could destroy the Universe only slowly/gradually by spreading his energy).

Fused Zamasu is exponentially stronger than the Goku and Beerus who were destroying the Universe with their fight, so he genuinely oneshots Super 17.

[Koitsukai]

Android 17 (T.O.P.) vs. Beerus (in Battle of Gods)

How would Android 17 perform? Would he present a challenge to Beerus or get any shots in that could wound him, like he did with Jiren?

Anime 17 was trading blows with SSB Goku prior to the ToP. Beerus was taking some hits from BoG SSG Goku.
Beerus would be extremely surprised and in need to get a little more serious and probably stomp him like he did with Vegeta in the manga.

Manga 17 does even worse than SSG Goku. At best, he performs exactly as Goku did.

Here's an equal stats battle:

Merged Zamasu (no immortality but he can still potentially become Infinite Zamasu)

VS

Super 17 from GT

Who wins?

Interesting. Zamasu has a lot of ki attacks that Super 17 would just eat up. His introduction was a non-stop spamming of ki attacks.

Blades of Judgment... he eats all of them.
That big bird... he eats the bird, bones and all.
Holy Wrath... also eaten.

Unless Zamasu knows about what RR android tend to do, he falls right into the trap. And even if he does know, he is half Goku, who even knowingly that RR android absorb energy blasts, spammed ki attacks anyway.

Super 17 will overpower Zamasu soon enough.

[Yuji]

Here's an equal stats battle:

Merged Zamasu (no immortality but he can still potentially become Infinite Zamasu)

VS

Super 17 from GT

Who wins?

Fused Zamasu oneshots, Super reaches Universal levels in BoG while GT becomes Universal only with Omega Shenron (who btw could destroy the Universe only slowly/gradually by spreading his energy).

Fused Zamasu is exponentially stronger than the Goku and Beerus who were destroying the Universe with their fight, so he genuinely oneshots Super 17.

He said equal stats.

Unless Zamasu can pull off the reverse mafuba or become infinite Zamasu, he's toasted.

[SupremeKai25]

Here's an equal stats battle:

Merged Zamasu (no immortality but he can still potentially become Infinite Zamasu)

VS

Super 17 from GT

Who wins?

Fused Zamasu oneshots, Super reaches Universal levels in BoG while GT becomes Universal only with Omega Shenron (who btw could destroy the Universe only slowly/gradually by spreading his energy).

Fused Zamasu is exponentially stronger than the Goku and Beerus who were destroying the Universe with their fight, so he genuinely oneshots Super 17.

He said equal stats.

Unless Zamasu can pull off the reverse mafuba or become infinite Zamasu, he's toasted.

Since Fused Zamasu has all of Black's abilities, he pulls out the scythe, creates the army of clones (clones of Goku Black were able to hurt SSB saiyans btw), and watches as his clones dismember Super 17.

In no way, shape, or form does he need to become Infinite or is "toasted".

[sunsetshimmer]

Here's an equal stats battle:

Merged Zamasu (no immortality but he can still potentially become Infinite Zamasu)

VS

Super 17 from GT

Who wins?

There is no comparison. Super 17 can eat everything Zamasu throws at him. He's also an android so he has unlimited energy and his ki can't be sensed so he has huge advantage in battle. There is nothing Zamasu can do against that + he was mostly shown spamming flashy ki attacks, so it's pretty much one sided battle of Super 17 standing still and getting stronger and stronger until he kills Zamasu once he wasted all of his power. There is no way someone with such big ego as Zamasu would realize Super 17's secret let alone beat him in 1v1 fight. Even Goku needed #18 to realize that and to actually beat him as he had to be distracted with absorbing ki attacks to become vulnerable to physical ones.

[MrGohanks]

Kaioken x20 Tien (Cell Games) vs SSJ1 Vegeta (Early Android saga)

Anime Hit (ToP) vs Merged Zamasu (Manga, no immortality)

Base Gogeta (DBS Broly) vs SSBKKx20 Goku (ToP Hour Special)

Base Gotenks (after training in the ROSAT) vs 1 Cell Jr.

SSJ1 Vegito (Buu saga) vs SSJ1 Goku (Shadow Dragon arc)

[ZombieVito]

Kaioken x20 Tien (Cell Games) vs SSJ1 Vegeta (Early Android saga)

Anime Hit (ToP) vs Merged Zamasu (Manga, no immortality)

Base Gogeta (DBS Broly) vs SSBKKx20 Goku (ToP Hour Special)

Base Gotenks (after training in the ROSAT) vs 1 Cell Jr.

SSJ1 Vegito (Buu saga) vs SSJ1 Goku (Shadow Dragon arc)

Vegeta takes this easily. Tenshinhan's only chance is to land a Shin Kikoho.
Zamasu is stronger but Hit's time abilities gives him the win.
Goku one shots.
Gotenks gets one shotted.
Vegetto but with difficulty.

[TobyS]

Kaioken x20 Tien (Cell Games) vs SSJ1 Vegeta (Early Android saga)

Anime Hit (ToP) vs Merged Zamasu (Manga, no immortality)

Base Gogeta (DBS Broly) vs SSBKKx20 Goku (ToP Hour Special)

Base Gotenks (after training in the ROSAT) vs 1 Cell Jr.

SSJ1 Vegito (Buu saga) vs SSJ1 Goku (Shadow Dragon arc)

You can't really cross scale the anime is full of bullshit.
I think the time cage and a charged attack could do it.
Goku, Base Gogeta should be about Blue level.

Gotenks, fusions greater than super saiyan 1 and the kids are probably near base Cell games Vegeta levels by then.
In Reborn as Yamcha, not canon but an official product, Chaozu and Yamcha think their fusion could beat a Jr. but not Cell.

GT is stupid, it all depends on the Vegetto to SS4 comparison and which Majin Buu Goku was talking about regarding that mercenary guy. Answers we will never get. I'm gonna say Vegetto.

If Goku base in GT really is SS3 Buu saga Goku, Vegetto should be SSJ3 Goku level in base so it's a case of how much did he improve until the shadowdragons and is it enough to beat the more skilled vegetto.

[Peach]

Here's an equal stats battle:

Merged Zamasu (no immortality but he can still potentially become Infinite Zamasu)

VS

Super 17 from GT

Who wins?

Draw.

They both have infinite stamina. 17 can keep absorbing power, but no matter how much strong he gets - Zamasu will not die. But Zamasu cannot defeat 17 due to him constantly absorbing energy. Maybe 17 can trap him in a barrier like the bug in the T.O.P. if he's smart enough? Otherwise it literally becomes the unstoppable force vs. the immovable object.

Kaioken x20 Tien (Cell Games) vs SSJ1 Vegeta (Early Android saga)

Anime Hit (ToP) vs Merged Zamasu (Manga, no immortality)

Base Gogeta (DBS Broly) vs SSBKKx20 Goku (ToP Hour Special)

Base Gotenks (after training in the ROSAT) vs 1 Cell Jr.

SSJ1 Vegito (Buu saga) vs SSJ1 Goku (Shadow Dragon arc)

Vegeta. I don't doubt that Tien could have the power to defeat him, but I don't know if Tien's human body can withstand Kaio Ken, let alone x20.

Hit. The time cage he used on jiren would give him a chance to unleash a killing blow on Zamasu. Plus, the manga versions of characters just seem far weaker than the anime.

Gogeta. If Goku came to this fight with Mastered Ultra Instinct, things would be a little more interesting..

Gottenks due to better techniques.

My initial instinct is telling me Vegito, but Goku's Dragon First is super OP.

[MrGohanks]

If Goku unlocked MUI at the very start of the franchise (when he first met Bulma), who would you guys say is the strongest character that Goku could beat?

[Peach]

If Goku unlocked MUI at the very start of the franchise (when he first met Bulma), who would you guys say is the strongest character that Goku could beat?

Assuming the heat from Ultra Instinct didn't kill him, he would be able to beat every single character in Dragon Ball Z - including fusions and movie characters. The power boost of Mastered Ultra Instinct is massive.

[TobyS]

If Goku unlocked MUI at the very start of the franchise (when he first met Bulma), who would you guys say is the strongest character that Goku could beat?

Assuming the heat from Ultra Instinct didn't kill him, he would be able to beat every single character in Dragon Ball Z - including fusions and movie characters. The power boost of Mastered Ultra Instinct is massive.

I'm not buying that it's that massive. Even know it's about on par with a Blue fusion.

The dodging is cool but the multiplier despite being bigger then blue really has nothing to work with at beginning of DB. I see it failing to beat Freeza.

[ZombieVito]

If Goku unlocked MUI at the very start of the franchise (when he first met Bulma), who would you guys say is the strongest character that Goku could beat?

Assuming the heat from Ultra Instinct didn't kill him, he would be able to beat every single character in Dragon Ball Z - including fusions and movie characters. The power boost of Mastered Ultra Instinct is massive.

I'm not buying that it's that massive. Even know it's about on par with a Blue fusion.

The dodging is cool but the multiplier despite being bigger then blue really has nothing to work with at beginning of DB. I see it failing to beat Freeza.

Thing is, a Blue fusion is fucking massive.

Gogeta was already Blue tier in base so SSB Gogeta is Blue x Blue when it comes to the multiplier.

[Peach]

If Goku unlocked MUI at the very start of the franchise (when he first met Bulma), who would you guys say is the strongest character that Goku could beat?

Assuming the heat from Ultra Instinct didn't kill him, he would be able to beat every single character in Dragon Ball Z - including fusions and movie characters. The power boost of Mastered Ultra Instinct is massive.

I'm not buying that it's that massive. Even know it's about on par with a Blue fusion.

The dodging is cool but the multiplier despite being bigger then blue really has nothing to work with at beginning of DB. I see it failing to beat Freeza.

I don't believe Ultra Instinct is a traditional multiplier. I think it's a technique brings someone up to God power.

[Koitsukai]

Kaioken x20 Tien (Cell Games) vs SSJ1 Vegeta (Early Android saga)

Anime Hit (ToP) vs Merged Zamasu (Manga, no immortality)

Base Gogeta (DBS Broly) vs SSBKKx20 Goku (ToP Hour Special)

Base Gotenks (after training in the ROSAT) vs 1 Cell Jr.

SSJ1 Vegito (Buu saga) vs SSJ1 Goku (Shadow Dragon arc)

1- Tenshinhan would have to be much stronger than base Vegeta to win. Vegeta gets a 50x boost, Tenshinhan with a 20x boost would need to be over twice as strong at the very least. Which he never was.

2- Hit can do this. Zamasu was just PSSB level, take the immortality away and another haxed blue tier character will kill him. Specially an assassin. Goku almost beats Zamasu, and ToP Hit is stronger than Manga Hit, who was implied to be at least not that far off Blue Goku.

3- Base Gogeta is SSB tier. There's nothing he can do against 20x that power, in base.

4- By now, the kids can tangle with several Cells Jrs. Base Gotenks sure could take just one.

5- Probably Vegito needs something more than SS. Even if he doesn't, he still won't be able to fool around.

If Goku unlocked MUI at the very start of the franchise (when he first met Bulma), who would you guys say is the strongest character that Goku could beat?

With a PL of 10, if SSG is 10x SS3, then that would make it a 4,000x boost and SSB 40,000x. Doubling that puts him probably above Majin Vegeta's realm.
That is if the boosts are linear for fusions, which I doubt they are.
Vegito, injured and in base was already damaging Zamasu, but in blue wasn't making him explode, like he should've if the boosts were linear. Same for Broly and Gogeta, though you could argue Geta was holding his punches. Gotenks also has a non-linear multiplier, his SS and SS3 weren't that far apart, but again Buu could've been messing around, even though he was hella bored.
SS4 Gogeta couldn't finish Omega Shenron with one attack, either. Didn't seem, in the end that mathematically superior to SS4 as one would expect. Fusions are unreliable in terms of exactly how much stronger they actually make the fusees.

I think, mathematics aside, a 10 year old MUI Goku cannot get past Android 16, or nothing above that.

[Seekeroftruth]

Makkari (from MCU)

VS

Dyspo

Who wins?