"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[Draconic]

Maybe "survivor" Granola is a member of one of the destroyed universes. I would much rather that than him being a Tsufuru. Baby is a perfectly fine villain and the arc, even though it's boring, is fine. There's no need to retread it, even though I'm not the biggest fan of it.

[Magnificent Ponta]

I mean, couldn't you technically say you're participating in that right now, just instead of it being towards a story, you're insinuating what I will be saying about the story?

I think that would be tricky to maintain, given that the exchange we're having has been centred on what you're already saying. It's hardly unreasonable to suppose you'll stand by what you've already said.

So, your only issue with my statement isn't actually that you felt it was an unfair judgment or preemptive, it's that it's negative?

I don't think those things are separable - a pre-emptive negative judgement is, of necessity, an unfair one. Is keeping a genuinely open mind too much to ask?

[SupremeKai25]

Finally the cat is punished for his constant failures and consistent incompetence. Looks like there is some justice after all! I hope Zeno is having fun with his new cat plushie.

[Kanassa]

So, your only issue with my statement isn't actually that you felt it was an unfair judgment or preemptive, it's that it's negative?

I don't think those things are separable - a pre-emptive negative judgement is, of necessity, an unfair one. Is keeping a genuinely open mind too much to ask?

In this very sentence, you are literally asking the opposite of keeping an open mind.

[Lord Frieza]

While far to early to say, I hope Gronola turns out to be the kind of villain I’ve been waiting for. More brains then brawn.

The idea of him controlling an squad of copy robots is cool.

[Mister_Popo]

While far to early to say, I hope Gronola turns out to be the kind of villain I’ve been waiting for. More brains then brawn.

The idea of him controlling an squad of copy robots is cool.

Granola controlling an army of robots being the main battle for 1-2 years is not really something i was aiming for.
To be honest with you, it has too much of a dr. Gero-sniff to it.
And haven't we seen more than enough of 7-3's copying abilities in the Moro arc already?

I actually hope it's a prelude leading up to something else more meaningful.

[Magnificent Ponta]

In this very sentence, you are literally asking the opposite of keeping an open mind.

Since it is possible to suspend judgement till the facts are in, I fundamentally disagree. But that's about all I have to say here, so thank you for the chat.

Finally the cat is punished for his constant failures and consistent incompetence. Looks like there is some justice after all! I hope Zeno is having fun with his new cat plushie.

I think it's funny that Shin got roped into this to be the horsey for the other Zeno. Truly, his is a hard-luck story for the ages.

[Lord Frieza]

While far to early to say, I hope Gronola turns out to be the kind of villain I’ve been waiting for. More brains then brawn.

The idea of him controlling an squad of copy robots is cool.

Granola controlling an army of robots being the main battle for 1-2 years is not really something i was aiming for.
To be honest with you, it has too much of a dr. Gero-sniff to it.
And haven't we seen more than enough of 7-3's copying abilities in the Moro arc already?

I actually hope it's a prelude leading up to something else more meaningful.

I agree totally on the desire for a more meaningful story. What posted in another thread was that I want a villain to beat the heroes truly with brains rather than brawn. Someone who’s not going to power up into the next super powerful boss but someone Goku is going to have to face with none of his power by the end. No UI, no God Ki, No SSJ. Just a warn down going with nothing his skills to lead him to victory.

I dought I’ll get all that but a more brain the brain main antagonist would be welcome. Think Gero but actually being the real bad guy, not like all the other evil Doctors and Wizards who get killed by their creations.

As for the 73s, well depends on how their used. If they are part of a bigger plan good, and they can’t be the end all and be all since just one of them was beaten by the other character let alone Goku and Vegeta, who basically beat a superior 73.

[batistabus]

I've seen some fans predict that this arc may tie into Tsufurians.

I don't necessarily want that since we've seen several retellings of the Tsufurian plot point from Toei, and none of them have been good by my measure. Still, "canonizing" Toei ideas with Toriyama's hand has been a trend of Super. There is a potential story in how the Saiyans took over Planet Plant, and while I doubt we'd get a "period piece" so to speak, it could certainly be the catalyst for a Super arc. I just pray they recycle as few ideas from Toei as possible.

And for what it's worth, with the Dragon Ball FighterZ DLC news, I noticed Seven-three has the same eyes as Baby.

(But then again, so does this random Galactic Patrolman.)

[precita]

Considering Baby also just got announced for Fighter Z, seeing something related to the Tuffles/Baby being canonized could happen. Even if it's completely different than what came before.

[Magnificent Ponta]

As a piece of speculation about Granola:

Cipher made the point on Twitter that his design looks like an older version of Toki (main character of the Toriyama one-shot Kintoki) - Granola could be a last survivor from the Kinme-zoku ('Golden-eyed tribe'), a short-lived, golden-eyed mystical humanoid race of great strength and fighting prowess, revered as 'gods of war', that was dying out in the one-shot.

I find this intriguing, not least because of Toki's preternatural aiming abilities. If Granola's from the Kinme-zoku, then he'd be a guy with perfect aim (and golden eyes) going up against Goku's perfect dodge (and silver eyes) in Ultra Instinct.

[SupremeKai25]

I doubt this plot will have anything to do with the Tsufurians simply because Toriyama doesn't seem to be interested in them in the slightest. I mean, that DBZ movie involving the Tsufurian was made by Toei, so was GT, and I think even the backstory of the Tsufurians was anime filler?

It's clearly not a concept that Toriyama finds interesting or worthwhile, which makes me think this Granola has a different origin. He might come from the technologically-advanced Universe 3, for example.

As a piece of speculation about Granola:

Cipher made the point on Twitter that his design looks like an older version of Toki (main character of the Toriyama one-shot Kintoki) - Granola could be a last survivor from the Kinme-zoku ('Golden-eyed tribe'), a short-lived, golden-eyed mystical humanoid race of great strength and fighting prowess, revered as 'gods of war', that was dying out in the one-shot.

I find this intriguing, not least because of Toki's preternatural aiming abilities. If Granola's from the Kinme-zoku, then he'd be a guy with perfect aim (and golden eyes) going up against Goku's perfect dodge (and silver eyes) in Ultra Instinct.

I like the words "golden-eyed, mystical" and "gods of war", this is way more interesting.

[Grimlock]

I don't know how much time has passed, but I imagine we are not far from the 12 months since the tournament. The Super Dragon Balls will necessarily be involved.

For the sake of Bulma and Goku not seeing each other for five years, we're still in AGE 780. Same year the Super Dragon Balls were last used. Unless, of course, that in this new saga they don't see each other...

But we'd still have the problem of being forever stuck in this period, when we should be moving on.

[batistabus]

As a piece of speculation about Granola:

Cipher made the point on Twitter that his design looks like an older version of Toki (main character of the Toriyama one-shot Kintoki) - Granola could be a last survivor from the Kinme-zoku ('Golden-eyed tribe'), a short-lived, golden-eyed mystical humanoid race of great strength and fighting prowess, revered as 'gods of war', that was dying out in the one-shot.

I find this intriguing, not least because of Toki's preternatural aiming abilities. If Granola's from the Kinme-zoku, then he'd be a guy with perfect aim (and golden eyes) going up against Goku's perfect dodge (and silver eyes) in Ultra Instinct.

I think that's a stretch. Ok, Toki has a light shirt over a dark shirt, and so does Granola, and they have somewhat similar hair. But besides that, the members of the Golden-Eyed clan don't have eyebrows, and they dress in archaic Japanese garb. Also, they're citizens of Dragon Ball's Earth, and they're not very technologically advanced. Of course, there could be a reason why a Golden-Eyed clan member could go to space, change clothes, learn technology, etc....but that's a lot that doesn't match up, and again, there's the eyebrows.

I suppose that Granola potentially missing an eye harkens back to other rare-eyed manga characters (Kakashi and the Uchiha, Kurapika and the Kurta), which is a tempting parallel. Regardless, I'd love to see a Golden-eye member appear, perhaps in an Oob story later on.

I think this is the most compelling tidbit, but I don't really know what it tells us...
https://twitter.com/Cipher_db/status/13 ... 6982374401

[DiscountDabi]

As a piece of speculation about Granola:

Cipher made the point on Twitter that his design looks like an older version of Toki (main character of the Toriyama one-shot Kintoki) - Granola could be a last survivor from the Kinme-zoku ('Golden-eyed tribe'), a short-lived, golden-eyed mystical humanoid race of great strength and fighting prowess, revered as 'gods of war', that was dying out in the one-shot.

I find this intriguing, not least because of Toki's preternatural aiming abilities. If Granola's from the Kinme-zoku, then he'd be a guy with perfect aim (and golden eyes) going up against Goku's perfect dodge (and silver eyes) in Ultra Instinct.

I have never been so intrigued in my life. Not sure how 7-3 ties into this. But if Toyotaro is tying this into Dragon Ball, he will be somewhat redeemed in my eyes. I really want this to be the case

[Mister_Popo]

As a piece of speculation about Granola:

Cipher made the point on Twitter that his design looks like an older version of Toki (main character of the Toriyama one-shot Kintoki) - Granola could be a last survivor from the Kinme-zoku ('Golden-eyed tribe'), a short-lived, golden-eyed mystical humanoid race of great strength and fighting prowess, revered as 'gods of war', that was dying out in the one-shot.

I find this intriguing, not least because of Toki's preternatural aiming abilities. If Granola's from the Kinme-zoku, then he'd be a guy with perfect aim (and golden eyes) going up against Goku's perfect dodge (and silver eyes) in Ultra Instinct.

If he truely is that powerful, why would he need 7-3 for that matter?

[OrangeBanana]

As a piece of speculation about Granola:

Cipher made the point on Twitter that his design looks like an older version of Toki (main character of the Toriyama one-shot Kintoki) - Granola could be a last survivor from the Kinme-zoku ('Golden-eyed tribe'), a short-lived, golden-eyed mystical humanoid race of great strength and fighting prowess, revered as 'gods of war', that was dying out in the one-shot.

I find this intriguing, not least because of Toki's preternatural aiming abilities. If Granola's from the Kinme-zoku, then he'd be a guy with perfect aim (and golden eyes) going up against Goku's perfect dodge (and silver eyes) in Ultra Instinct.

If he truely is that powerful, why would he need 7-3 for that matter?

He's there to destroy 73 in case he still has access to Moro's or Merus' powers I think.

[Magnificent Ponta]

the members of the Golden-Eyed clan don't have eyebrows, and they dress in archaic Japanese garb. Also, they're citizens of Dragon Ball's Earth, and they're not very technologically advanced. Of course, there could be a reason why a Golden-Eyed clan member could go to space, change clothes, learn technology, etc....but that's a lot that doesn't match up, and again, there's the eyebrows.

All true enough - and into the bargain, the name puns for the Kinme we see in the one-shot are related to fish, rather than these grain-based character names; I'm not by any means saying it's definitely (or even necessarily very likely to be) the case - I just put it out there because I found the potential points of contact intriguing.

If it were so, though, it might go towards Granola's status as a "survivor" (last of his short-lived race; he could also be a half-breed, thinking about that, which might explain the eyebrows) and also perhaps go towards why he'd want OG73-I: ensuring a survival of his races' abilities by copying them for a 'back-up', thus saving the Kinme from being lost, in a way.

As ever, this might be a little too overly intricate when Toyotarou tends to be more straightforward in his storytelling, but I thought it was worth a mention - I think the discussion has rested a little too much on the question of whether Granola's a Tsufruian or not (which doesn't have any more obvious evidence in its favour, though it also has intriguing potential thematic points of contact), so possible alternatives are worth considering.

[theherodjl]

I really hope that future villains in DB are the direct result of the team's choices & actions as opposed to random magical beings from the past. Goku & Co should be dealing with the consequences of their own problems rather than cleaning up the messes of inept deities from millions of years ago.
What we need is another Cell or possibly even the Shadow Dragons. Opponents that were the culmination of their past foes combined into one or the logical conclusion of abusing the powers of magical wishing orbs that were never meant to be used more than rarely.

[Grand Marshal 1]

I really hope that future villains in DB are the direct result of the team's choices & actions as opposed to random magical beings from the past. Goku & Co should be dealing with the consequences of their own problems rather than cleaning up the messes of inept deities from millions of years ago.
What we need is another Cell or possibly even the Shadow Dragons. Opponents that were the culmination of their past foes combined into one or the logical conclusion of abusing the powers of magical wishing orbs that were never meant to be used more than rarely.

Although I advocate for a 'Super Shadow Dragons' plotline, I think many would not want to see Super's take on GT. Just as many here, right now, mention how Baby and the tuffles aren't necesserarily the way forward. And of course it has to be the Super Dragon Balls cause all other dragon balls cannot generate power that rivals gods.

This is only the beginning, just like with Moro, things can go about very differently than we think of. Now what I'd like to see is a group of enemies. Not a singular foe. A team, that requires a team to be beaten. Not sure how much of that the ToP covered. As most fights felt like a classic 2v1 or a wipe by a singular strong character *ahem* Kale.

But something like Hearts' team? Now that's a nice concept. And if the fan theories about Granola and his companions forming a team of powerful individuals to accomplish their plans is true, then count me in!!!