Dragon Ball Daima Strength Discussion Thread

[RedHeat]

What are you guys even talking about? Daima SSJ4 and GT SSJ4 are completely different things. That’s like going “Hahaha, Toriyama’s Broly confirms M8 Broly was a universe buster all along!”

They are basically the same shit lol.

Obviously they could be, but I think it's maybe a bit early to say they're EXACTLY the same. The fiery Ki alone is a differentiator.

[Mr Baggins]

If Daima is a prequel to Super, then SS4 is officially weaker than God.

That goes without saying even if it isn't a prequel. It definitely didn't seem to be as massive a leap as God was from 3.

[LightBing]

Aren't Dragons as strong as their creators?

There's that line in the Cell arc that Shenlong couldn't turn the Androids human because they were stronger.
Could that possibly mean Nevah is as strong as his Dragon...?

[Xeogran]

If Daima is a prequel to Super, then SS4 is officially weaker than God.

That goes without saying even if it isn't a prequel. It definitely didn't seem to be as massive a leap as God was from 3.

The difference is that Goku was still weakened by the wish here, even as this pseudo SS4 form.

[Saiyan007]

The difference is that Goku was still weakened by the wish here, even as this pseudo SS4 form.

Wouldn't matter since Goku in battle of gods says SSJG is a power that astonishes him/and it's a power in a different realm

[DBZ Macky]

Aren't Dragons as strong as their creators?

While that is stated somewhere I guess, at this point there's more evidence pointing to the contrary.
Kami is stronger than King Piccolo but the latter takes out Shenron pretty easily.
Neva is not a fighter and even after unlocking Goku's power, Red Porunga is just insanely strong compared to everyone.

[LightBing]

Aren't Dragons as strong as their creators?

While that is stated somewhere I guess, at this point there's more evidence pointing to the contrary.
Kami is stronger than King Piccolo but the latter takes out Shenron pretty easily.
Neva is not a fighter and even after unlocking Goku's power, Red Porunga is just insanely strong compared to everyone.

We can fit the first by it being a surprise attack and Piccolo Daimaõ not being worlds weaker than Kami.

The second, while Neva doesn't appear to fight.
He technically is a SSJ3 tier combatant, a puppeteer. He created the Tamagami's and like last episode shown he can direct them. He has power, just manifested in a different way.

[DBZ Macky]

Aren't Dragons as strong as their creators?

While that is stated somewhere I guess, at this point there's more evidence pointing to the contrary.
Kami is stronger than King Piccolo but the latter takes out Shenron pretty easily.
Neva is not a fighter and even after unlocking Goku's power, Red Porunga is just insanely strong compared to everyone.

We can fit the first by it being a surprise attack and Piccolo Daimaõ not being worlds weaker than Kami.

The second, while Neva doesn't appear to fight.
He technically is a SSJ3 tier combatant, a puppeteer. He created the Tamagami's and like last episode shown he can direct them. He has power, just manifested in a different way.

If we really want to go that way, you could just say that Shenron isn't a martial artist so he effectively has a lower battle power.
I agree with what you said for Neva. Alternatively, perhaps he just got weaker as he aged but Porunga stayed buff and strong.

[Yuji]

So how strong is nuSS4's multiplier? Definitely does not seem as strong as GT's which is at least SS3 x10. This form immediately lost. Even SS3 was getting solid hits on Gomah, I didn't notice such an incredible boost from 3 to 4.

[Koitsukai]

Not even close to the real SS4.

It didn't seem that much stronger than SS3, and Gomah managed to trade blows and block him just fine after a while, except for the powered-up KHH.
I don't know, 2x SS3? It wasn't like SS3 couldn't make Gomah flinch. The first attacks of both forms served Gomah similarly.

I'd venture that with this form he could be equal or slightly above Ultimate Gohan. I don't think he could take on Buuhan, for instance. The original SS4 was implied to be comparable to Super Vegito, this one is definitely not. And if it is, then they really failed to showcase the big boost it was supposed to provide.

[Kaboom]

By comparison, the real Super Saiyan 4 is probably literally a hundred times stronger than SS3. Based on how Goku and Baby's fights progressed, Golden Ape would be a 10-fold increase over SS3 to start with, and then Super Saiyan 4 would be another 10 times stronger than that.

It definitely helps to think of this new psuedo-SS4 as just a partway-manifested and extremely lacking version of the real thing.

[Almighty Majin]

GT SSJ4 is a SSJ Fusion level boost, although debatably it's unquantifiable on account of being the kind of form that maximizes a Saiyan's potential at their peak/prime state.

I mentioned this in another thread, but I think Daima SSJ4 is the same kind of form as Orange Piccolo and Gohan Beast, being a limit breaking form unleashed via magic surpassing a potential unleashed state (Ultimate for Gohan and Piccolo in their case, SSJ3 for Goku in his case).

Not really sure which one I would rank higher personally, I suppose it is up to interpretation at that point. Also I don't think the gaps in power are as big as people think. I think that power gaps have been artificially inflated by Toei and to a lesser extent, Toyotaro.

[ZombieVito]

GT SSJ4 is a SSJ Fusion level boost, although debatably it's unquantifiable on account of being the kind of form that maximizes a Saiyan's potential at their peak/prime state.

I mentioned this in another thread, but I think Daima SSJ4 is the same kind of form as Orange Piccolo and Gohan Beast, being a limit breaking form unleashed via magic surpassing a potential unleashed state (Ultimate for Gohan and Piccolo in their case, SSJ3 for Goku in his case).

Not really sure which one I would rank higher personally, I suppose it is up to interpretation at that point. Also I don't think the gaps in power are as big as people think. I think that power gaps have been artificially inflated by Toei and to a lesser extent, Toyotaro.

Oh wow.

I completely forgot that SS3 is described as a form that pushes a Saiyan's potential out so in a sense, it is similar to the Ultimate forms of Gohan and Piccolo.

Beast being very different than SS4 can be easily explained by Gohan's hybrid nature.

[Kaboom]

I don't really think either of those quotes about SS3 and SS4 "pushing a Saiyan's power to its limits" or whatever were necessarily intended to imply that either one is some form of a potential unlock, akin to what the Grand Elder or Elder Kaioshin can do. I think they were each just a flowery way of saying "this is the (current) strongest Super Saiyan form."

[Hugo Boss]

I really like that theory. In fact, I’d say Goku’s awakening in Daima is even more extreme, considering Neva’s magical abilities appear to be far beyond those of Shenron or Elder Supreme Kai. That could mean the power boost is even greater than what we’ve seen with Ultimate Gohan or Orange Piccolo.

That said, since SS3 Goku in Daima starts at a much lower level than Ultimate Gohan from Super Hero, who was already rivaling Super Saiyan Blue, the exact gap between these forms is tricky to measure. It’s possible the boost shrinks that difference significantly, but without more direct comparisons, it’s hard to say for sure.

[Yuji]

Looks like they do get significantly stronger as adults. And it seems like Gomah is only one step above SS3 adults. This means we likely have to scale back the Tamagamis and Majin Doo.

[Xeogran]

And it seems like Gomah is only one step above SS3 adults.

Ehhh, he felt considerably weaker, SSJ3 Vegeta was pushing him around. It's solely his regeneration BS keeping him alive.

[Saiyan007]

How much weaker did they get as kids?

Base Vegeta was knocking around Gomah something that Ssj4 mini Goku couldn’t do.Must be a massive nerf.

[BernardoCairo]

All of a sudden, their "struggle" against some of these enemies doesn’t feel as jarring. It’s still a bit wild, but not as absurd as it initially seemed.

[GreatSaiyaman123]

It is absolutely jarring how weak the bad guys were, though. Weren’t the Tamagamis supposed to be stronger than Dabra?