Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

[RandomGuy96]

Ah, missing zeroes. My archenemy.

Thanks. Oh, and I also think we disagree on how strong Cell's supposed to be compared to Gohan. I just settled for making them equals.

[Saiga]

Ah, missing zeroes. My archenemy.

Thanks. Oh, and I also think we disagree on how strong Cell's supposed to be compared to Gohan. I just settled for making them equals.

Oh yeah, that too. I thought you always had them as equals, though.

[RandomGuy96]

Nah, on my previous lists, I had Gohan stronger by a tiny to moderate amount.

[Zantetsuken]

There are a LOT of problems with that list, including the power levels listed for the Kais - obviously weaker than any SSJ considering they couldn't pull out the Z sword. Gohan, Goku and Vegeta's powerlevel in the Cell games, we know the gap between them isn't very large at all. Cells power as well is high, but near SSj2 Tier before he is revived?
I though we all hit the agreement that M8 Broly should have been more powerful than Cell? Then again, it is your list....
And SSJ3 Goku is obviously stronger than Gotenks and Gohan, but even if you didn't believe that having Gohan over 3x times stronger doesn't make any sense, especially considering the Diaz says that EOZ Goku wants to fight the strongest and he picks out Oob. So Goku became 4X times stronger to surpass everyone by the end of Z? Ok.

[ZombieVito]

Good list, some things I don't agree with but it's good.

If you take the Daiz comment on Gohan not getting weaker after Cell, don't you have to take Goten = Gohan comment as well?

Any reason why Buffed Trunks > 50% SSJ Goku?

[Kakashi]

The Daiz says Gohan got weaker and there are many wrong things in your list

[Zantetsuken]

The Daiz says Gohan got weaker and there are many wrong things in your list

For once, we agree.

[RandomGuy96]

Good list, some things I don't agree with but it's good.

If you take the Daiz comment on Gohan not getting weaker after Cell, don't you have to take Goten = Gohan comment as well?

Any reason why Buffed Trunks > 50% SSJ Goku?

I've been thinking hard about that one. I don't think it really fits what we're shown; Goten is not several times weaker than Gohan, but he admits that he is indeed much weaker. I suppose that I can go with post-ROSAT Goten = Gohan, but that seems to be stretching it a little, especially since the Gohan at that time would be post Z sword Gohan, and Goten probably didn't get THAT much more powerful in a couple weeks. Then again I'm still not sure on how strong he is supposed to be; post Z sword Gohan that is.

I've just never really saw a reason to have him stronger. I think that Trunks' power more or less left everyone's mind on part of being completely useless.

The Daiz says Gohan got weaker

Daizenshuu 2 wrote:
HIGH SCHOOL STUDENT
First Appears: Vol. 36-42
Many years after the battle with Cell, Gohan had become a high school student. Due to either Chi Chi's influence or him neglecting to train, his strength hadn't changed since he was a boy.

[ZombieVito]

I really wish AT or a newer guide just said If Gohan was a SSJ2 against Dabura or not. It would clear this issue once and for all.

Any reason you made 50% SSJ Goku < buffed Trunks?

[RandomGuy96]

I really wish AT or a newer guide just said If Gohan was a SSJ2 against Dabura or not. It would clear this issue once and for all.

Didn't the recent Chozenshu books reprint the "Dabra fought SSJ2 Gohan" quote?

Any reason you made 50% SSJ Goku < buffed Trunks?

I've just never really saw a reason to have him stronger. I think that Trunks' power more or less left everyone's mind on part of being completely useless.

[ZombieVito]

I really wish AT or a newer guide just said If Gohan was a SSJ2 against Dabura or not. It would clear this issue once and for all.

Didn't the recent Chozenshu books reprint the "Dabra fought SSJ2 Gohan" quote?

Really? It's there a translation or something I can check?

[RandomGuy96]

I really wish AT or a newer guide just said If Gohan was a SSJ2 against Dabura or not. It would clear this issue once and for all.

Didn't the recent Chozenshu books reprint the "Dabra fought SSJ2 Gohan" quote?

Really? It's there a translation or something I can check?

I was asking you. I've heard that claimed before but never actually seen explicit proof. Better ask Herms, he probably knows.

[Herms]

Chouzenshuu 4's bio for Dabra does still say he fought Super Saiyan 2 Gohan, like in Daizenshuu 7. Not sure how much that proves either way though. Chouzenshuu 4 did correct some of the errors in Daizenshuu 7 (like the typo describing Vegetto as more powerful than a "Saiyan 3" rather than a "Super Saiyan 3"), but others are left as-is (like Tenshinhan's bio saying he lost to No.19 rather than 17), so the Dabra vs SSj2 Gohan thing still being intact doesn't necessarily mean it was double-checked and vetted as correct.

[RandomGuy96]

Well, there you go. Thanks for the info.

[Saiga]

Chouzenshuu 4's bio for Dabra does still say he fought Super Saiyan 2 Gohan, like in Daizenshuu 7. Not sure how much that proves either way though. Chouzenshuu 4 did correct some of the errors in Daizenshuu 7 (like the typo describing Vegetto as more powerful than a "Saiyan 3" rather than a "Super Saiyan 3"), but others are left as-is (like Tenshinhan's bio saying he lost to No.19 rather than 17), so the Dabra vs SSj2 Gohan thing still being intact doesn't necessarily mean it was double-checked and vetted as correct.

Thanks for the clarification. Yeah, I understand that this doesn't make it any more valid, but if it HAD been changed then it probably would've been invalidated.

[ZombieVito]

Thanks Herms, guess we are still left hanging on this issue.

[Kakashi]

Good list, some things I don't agree with but it's good.

If you take the Daiz comment on Gohan not getting weaker after Cell, don't you have to take Goten = Gohan comment as well?

Any reason why Buffed Trunks > 50% SSJ Goku?

I've been thinking hard about that one. I don't think it really fits what we're shown; Goten is not several times weaker than Gohan, but he admits that he is indeed much weaker. I suppose that I can go with post-ROSAT Goten = Gohan, but that seems to be stretching it a little, especially since the Gohan at that time would be post Z sword Gohan. Then again I'm still not sure on how strong he is supposed to be.

I've just never really saw a reason to have him stronger. I think that Trunks' power more or less left everyone's mind on part of being completely useless.

The Daiz says Gohan got weaker

Daizenshuu 2 wrote:
HIGH SCHOOL STUDENT
First Appears: Vol. 36-42
Many years after the battle with Cell, Gohan had become a high school student. Due to either Chi Chi's influence or him neglecting to train, his strength hadn't changed since he was a boy.

Below that, it says he is not as strong as in the Cell Games because he never trained

[RandomGuy96]

No, it said it was because he wasn't able to draw power from his anger AND he never trained. When taken with that other comment I posted, which rather explicitly states that his power didn't change, it probably meant "he couldn't draw power from his rage, and he hadn't been training to make up for this defect".

[Kaboom]

I'm about to blow y'all's minds with a novel idea here. Ready?

"Pure-blooded Saiyans are a lot more physically strong and durable than humans or half-breeds at equivalent or even inferior power levels."

Let that sink in and anticipate how I might use it when I post some lists soon.

[RandomGuy96]

Is that an excerpt from a guide, or just something you made up?