Daizenshuu EX DB wiki...again

Tweaker · Post by **Tweaker** » Tue May 19, 2009 5:17 pm

SSJ2bardock wrote:
Herms wrote:
Oh right, the topic: I think having pages for the different dubs and releases of the series would be interesting. But maybe for each character page, there could be a drop-down list of their names in various translations and dubs as well?
Sounds like a lot of work

The entire wiki is going to be a lot of work, you know. The results will pay off though, I'm sure.

Adamant · Post by **Adamant** » Tue May 19, 2009 5:24 pm

Tweaker wrote: We are English, after all;

No, we are English-speakers. English is a world language, a lot of visitors to English sites do not speak English as their first language, and would not have any kind of connection to the FUNi dub of the series. The fact that Kuririn is named "Krillin" in dub x shouldn't recieve any kind of priority over the fact that he's named "Clirin" in dub y and "Bongo" in dub z.

The focus on such a wiki should be on factual information, with a main basis in the original, and various localization changes being treated as footnotes, with no priority given to any particular translation.

If this was, say, Pokemon, you'd have a case, since the English localization is used as the base of nearly all further localizations of the franchise, with some of them changing a couple names along the way. With Dragonball, the FUNimation dub is just some random dub from some random country whose only influence on the rest of the world is that we have to suffer with their dumb changes in our video games.
If there IS a de facto localization of the Dragonball franchise, it's the French anime dub, not anything FUNimation puked out long after the series had ended.

Dayspring · Post by **Dayspring** » Tue May 19, 2009 5:28 pm

Tweaker wrote: Taking the above situation in mind, the article should say something along the lines in its introducting sentence of:
'''Dr. Eggman''', (referred to as '''Dr. Robotnik''' in the US version of the ''Sonic the Hedgehog'' continuity) is the primary antagonist in the ''Sonic the Hedgehog''' game series. He first debuted in ''[[Sonic the Hedgehog (game)|Sonic the Hedgehog]]'' in 1991 for the [[Sega Mega Drive]] [...]
Do you see the general flow of information here? Actual name (alternate localization in parentheses), followed by factual information about the character. Non-intrusive, informative, and to the point.

You literally have parentheses within brackets within another set of brackets containing dividers. That's EXCEPTIONALLY intrusive, as well as leading to a run-on sentence because of all the parenthetical comments. Plus it only really works in a bio. For a wiki, we'd have to place it pretty much everywhere. Maybe a footnote system would be better?

Or a Dub Differences section, in the sense that we'd have a Timeline Section, a Bio section, a Trasformation section, etc. That way, when someone uses a dub search criterion, it would automatically take them to the Dub Differences section. Checking it out, they'd immediately learn the Daizex wiki-prefered term, and then search with the correct info.

Tweaker · Post by **Tweaker** » Tue May 19, 2009 5:39 pm

Dayspring wrote:You literally have parentheses within brackets within another set of brackets containing dividers. That's EXCEPTIONALLY intrusive, as well as leading to a run-on sentence because of all the parenthetical comments.

Wait, what? Haven't you ever heard of wiki markup? You should if you have any plans of expanding a wiki...

Also, that's not a run-on sentence. o_O

Plus it only really works in a bio. For a wiki, we'd have to place it pretty much everywhere.

Place what, exactly? The dub names? I don't see how this makes any sense; one mention is more than sufficient as long as search terms are linked appropriately. You do realize you can have a page name redirect to a specific section in another article, right?

No, we are English-speakers. English is a world language, a lot of visitors to English sites do not speak English as their first language, and would not have any kind of connection to the FUNi dub of the series. The fact that Kuririn is named "Krillin" in dub x shouldn't recieve any kind of priority over the fact that he's named "Clirin" in dub y and "Bongo" in dub z.

While I do see your point, I'd like to redirect you to this forum topic. While the opening post is far from updated recently, I think it's a good indication of just how many people on this forum are from the US, and would therefore at least have some--if not only--experience with the FUNimation dub of the show. If this was a French-speaking website, you could also reasonably reach the conclusion that most people would have experience with the French dub of the show. Of course, you'll still have your Japanese purists the same way you do here--as they rightfully should--but the fact of the matter is that a majority of that audience will still consist of more native speakers than not.

Post by **Herms** » Tue May 19, 2009 5:46 pm

Innagadadavida wrote:I don't mean to say that FUNimation's treatment of the series is the only controversial issue within the Dragon Ball fanbase. There are other things that should also have a strong emphasis of neutrality placed upon. Just some examples of the top of my head: Dragon Ball GT, Anime filler, timelines, powerlevels, Dragon Ball Evolution, ext.

With power levels, I had the really perverse idea that we should have, say, Kunzait be the only person allowed to write about them. Just someone who couldn't care less about any sort of strength debate. I guess that wouldn't really be a good system, but it'd be funny.

JulieYBM · Post by **JulieYBM** » Tue May 19, 2009 6:48 pm

I propose only citeable battle levels be mentioned. Absolutely no predictions or estimations (with estimations, if dialogue or official notes are mentioned then maybe...only if the official notes are mentioned and whatnot).

Dayspring · Post by **Dayspring** » Tue May 19, 2009 7:13 pm

Tweaker wrote:
Dayspring wrote:You literally have parentheses within brackets within another set of brackets containing dividers. That's EXCEPTIONALLY intrusive, as well as leading to a run-on sentence because of all the parenthetical comments.
Wait, what? Haven't you ever heard of wiki markup? You should if you have any plans of expanding a wiki...

Also, that's not a run-on sentence. o_O

My bad. I thought you were refering to the parenthetical use, not the parenthetical in regards to wiki markup.

Plus it only really works in a bio. For a wiki, we'd have to place it pretty much everywhere.
Place what, exactly? The dub names? I don't see how this makes any sense; one mention is more than sufficient as long as search terms are linked appropriately. You do realize you can have a page name redirect to a specific section in another article, right?

One mention works in a flowing text, not an encyclopedia. So, for example, if you were point out the dub namings in the bio for each character, you could still end up with a story or other section not explaining how Selypa is actually "Farsa" or whatever. Thus anyone not checking the section that has the clearing up will still have the problem you're refering to.

On another note, why are we even debating over this? We're not making a streamline English DB wiki so much as we're making a Daizex wiki. Thus it should use only whatever words get filtered to on these forums.

Rod · Post by **Rod** » Tue May 19, 2009 7:30 pm

What about the name? I was thinking something along the lines of pun on Capsules or Capsule Corp.

Wiki and Pedia seem very cliche now

SSj_Rambo · Post by **SSj_Rambo** » Tue May 19, 2009 7:38 pm

Rod wrote:What about the name? I was thinking something along the lines of pun on Capsules or Capsule Corp.

Wiki and Pedia seem very cliche now

Umm, Capsule Corp. seems a little too close to the Capsule-Corp forums, which aren't too popular here [link].

I really don't have any suggestions for names, but I do think that "Daizenshuu EX Wikipedia" would carry too much of a negative stigma. Just my opinion.

Rod · Post by **Rod** » Tue May 19, 2009 7:41 pm

I had no idea about the capsule corp thing.

But I still think a pun would be good idea, that way it follows the naming scheme of DragonBall itself

EDIT:Wow he is still taking post from here, not that it matters, he's the only one posting

SSJ2bardock · Post by **SSJ2bardock** » Tue May 19, 2009 7:41 pm

Rod wrote:What about the name? I was thinking something along the lines of pun on Capsules or Capsule Corp.

Wiki and Pedia seem very cliche now

They're cliche, but they're much easier to find also. There's no point in having an informative, accurate Dragonball encyclopedia if nobody can find it.

Innagadadavida · Post by **Innagadadavida** » Tue May 19, 2009 7:45 pm

How about: "The Dragon Radar."

Post by **VegettoEX** » Tue May 19, 2009 7:48 pm

Totally ignoring (temporarily) anything anyone's said since I last posted...

Meri and I were briefly discussing this on the way home today and had a pretty important thought:

Who the fuck cares...?

What I mean by that is that Wikipedia is essentially the single, important, relevant, de facto "encyclopedia" that people use today. It doesn't matter that there are better sites out there with more extensive information and more thorough research. Meri even said herself that she'll typically just click through to a Wikipedia article about an X-men character if she has a question, even though Marvel has their own damn wiki about it. Why? Convenience.

So while I'm not against (in the least) the prospect of doing this, I again ask why anyone should care. Of course, the philanthropist in all of us should care just because we want to do it and sharing (good) information is awesome, but let's also be realistic about it.

(Also, I wouldn't call it Daizenshuu EX Wiki or anything like that. If I'm going to have as large a role as I think I'm going to have, I'm definitely going to sub-host it on the site, though, but we can give it a different name... and then just call it "... sponsored by Daizenshuu EX and Kanzentai

).

Dayspring · Post by **Dayspring** » Tue May 19, 2009 8:38 pm

VegettoEX wrote: (Also, I wouldn't call it Daizenshuu EX Wiki or anything like that. If I'm going to have as large a role as I think I'm going to have, I'm definitely going to sub-host it on the site, though, but we can give it a different name... and then just call it "... sponsored by Daizenshuu EX and Kanzentai ).

The tankoubon were followed up with Daizenshuu (inspiring Daizex's name) and Kanzenban (which I'm assuming is partly inspirational of Kanzentai?). Since this is the next gen of DB guide-sites, maybe it should be a play on the SEGs? "The Super Exciting Guide EX" or something.

Of course, then the abbreviation gets us "segex," which sounds like we're boinking a SEGA.

Tweaker · Post by **Tweaker** » Tue May 19, 2009 8:45 pm

I thought several reasons why the Dragon Ball Wikia and Wikipedia itself were unreliable--focus on the dub, unreliable statements, completely unsourced information, and even an unfocused perspective--led to our somewhat mutual decision that a wiki made by us, centered and focused around the real facts about the series, should be established.

Granted--people who really don't care one way or the other will go to Wikipedia for an answer to whatever question they want answered... but can Wikipedia really be considered a reliable source for the question they want answered? Will the scope of Wikipedia even cover the question they want answered? And to add to that, will Wikipeda contain the hours upon hours of linked and related reading on the subject that we have the potential to cover more than Wikipedia itself will ever be able to cover with a considerable degree of focus and detail?

A Wiki with a specific focus has so, so much more potential for detail than stock Wikipedia will have. It gives the breathing room for all information Dragon Ball--the big, the small, and the inherently obscure--to be available in one place, with the kind of faith that it will have basis in fact, and not fan-fiction, arbitrarily modified adaption, or "facts" that can't be double-checked or otherwise verified. We should care because we have the chance to make something that, quite frankly, nobody else has been able to make properly to this very day. And I think we're the best people--if not the only people--who can do it right.

But you know, ignoring the entire concept of serving the public with oodles of factual information... do you know who the fuck cares? We fucking care. And at the end of the day, that's what matters, right?

Taku128 · Post by **Taku128** » Tue May 19, 2009 8:45 pm

VegettoEX wrote:(Also, I wouldn't call it Daizenshuu EX Wiki or anything like that. If I'm going to have as large a role as I think I'm going to have, I'm definitely going to sub-host it on the site, though, but we can give it a different name... and then just call it "... sponsored by Daizenshuu EX and Kanzentai ).

I think we can all agree that Kanzenshuu EX would be the obvious and best name for said wiki.

RoarkVegeta · Post by **RoarkVegeta** » Tue May 19, 2009 8:45 pm

Landmark EX
EX Densetsu
=P

Tweaker · Post by **Tweaker** » Tue May 19, 2009 8:48 pm

Kanzenpedia EX? =P

By the way--I found a MediaWiki+phpBB bridge! You can check it out here, but bear in mind that it requires phpBB3 in order to use; if we wanted to bridge it to this forum, we'd have to upgrade first. Personally, I don't like the phpBB3 default skin, so if we could rig it to look exactly as it does now, the transition should be as smooth as possible.

B · Post by B » Tue May 19, 2009 8:52 pm

WE GOTTA PEDIA

Totally serious.

Post by **VegettoEX** » Tue May 19, 2009 8:56 pm

Tweaker wrote:Kanzenpedia EX? =P

By the way--I found a MediaWiki+phpBB bridge! You can check it out here, but bear in mind that it requires phpBB3 in order to use; if we wanted to bridge it to this forum, we'd have to upgrade first. Personally, I don't like the phpBB3 default skin, so if we could rig it to look exactly as it does now, the transition should be as smooth as possible.

Oh, don't worry about the forum. We have all sorts of upgrades and security fixes and hacks going into it when it moves over

.