Why Gohan lost his Mystic in GT theory

[finnishjuoppo]

we could think that the "mystic" form is just a transformation, that he couldn't use anymore due the lack of training. Or maybe he could use it, but it would have taked too much energy like ssj3, so he stopped using it and stayed with the ssj which gave him enough power...

[Bussani]

we could think that the "mystic" form is just a transformation, that he couldn't use anymore due the lack of training. Or maybe he could use it, but it would have taked too much energy like ssj3, so he stopped using it and stayed with the ssj which gave him enough power...

That goes against the whole point of 'mystic' though. Old Kaioshin told them that transformations were 'just show biz'. Mystic seems to be bringing all the power out without transforming. It even seems to replace Super Saiyajin, since when Gohan tried it just brought all his power out without the transformation.

[finnishjuoppo]

we could think that the "mystic" form is just a transformation, that he couldn't use anymore due the lack of training. Or maybe he could use it, but it would have taked too much energy like ssj3, so he stopped using it and stayed with the ssj which gave him enough power...

That goes against the whole point of 'mystic' though. Old Kaioshin told them that transformations were 'just show biz'. Mystic seems to be bringing all the power out without transforming. It even seems to replace Super Saiyajin, since when Gohan tried it just brought all his power out without the transformation.

but in the movie 13 we see Gohan transforming to his mystic form
which makes it a transformation, which makes more sense cause mystic Gohan is the strongest character in dbz and at the start of GT, cause Goku still wasn't able to handle ssj3,cause it so much energy. Gohan could have transofrmed into mystic if he would have trained more, but because of toei being bitch he lost almost everything of his coolness and couldn't handle that much energy anymore.

[Dayspring]

we could think that the "mystic" form is just a transformation, that he couldn't use anymore due the lack of training. Or maybe he could use it, but it would have taked too much energy like ssj3, so he stopped using it and stayed with the ssj which gave him enough power...

That goes against the whole point of 'mystic' though. Old Kaioshin told them that transformations were 'just show biz'. Mystic seems to be bringing all the power out without transforming. It even seems to replace Super Saiyajin, since when Gohan tried it just brought all his power out without the transformation.

but in the movie 13 we see Gohan transforming to his mystic form
which makes it a transformation, which makes more sense cause mystic Gohan is the strongest character in dbz and at the start of GT, cause Goku still wasn't able to handle ssj3,cause it so much energy. Gohan could have transofrmed into mystic if he would have trained more, but because of toei being bitch he lost almost everything of his coolness and couldn't handle that much energy anymore.

Training has nothing to do with it, though. The whole point of the transformation was that it put his base form equal to his max potential. In other words, his base should be as strong as when he mastered the Z-Sword. If he didn't train, he'd lose strength in comparison to that. Once he transformed, he'd back at his max potential again. Also, it's still debatable whether or not movie 13 is part of GT continuity.

[Bussani]

we could think that the "mystic" form is just a transformation, that he couldn't use anymore due the lack of training. Or maybe he could use it, but it would have taked too much energy like ssj3, so he stopped using it and stayed with the ssj which gave him enough power...

That goes against the whole point of 'mystic' though. Old Kaioshin told them that transformations were 'just show biz'. Mystic seems to be bringing all the power out without transforming. It even seems to replace Super Saiyajin, since when Gohan tried it just brought all his power out without the transformation.

but in the movie 13 we see Gohan transforming to his mystic form
which makes it a transformation, which makes more sense cause mystic Gohan is the strongest character in dbz and at the start of GT, cause Goku still wasn't able to handle ssj3,cause it so much energy. Gohan could have transofrmed into mystic if he would have trained more, but because of toei being bitch he lost almost everything of his coolness and couldn't handle that much energy anymore.

I was only taking the manga into account, not the movies. But how do you know he 'transformed' into mystic and wasn't just powering up and bringing out his full strength?

[finnishjuoppo]

That goes against the whole point of 'mystic' though. Old Kaioshin told them that transformations were 'just show biz'. Mystic seems to be bringing all the power out without transforming. It even seems to replace Super Saiyajin, since when Gohan tried it just brought all his power out without the transformation.

but in the movie 13 we see Gohan transforming to his mystic form
which makes it a transformation, which makes more sense cause mystic Gohan is the strongest character in dbz and at the start of GT, cause Goku still wasn't able to handle ssj3,cause it so much energy. Gohan could have transofrmed into mystic if he would have trained more, but because of toei being bitch he lost almost everything of his coolness and couldn't handle that much energy anymore.

I was only taking the manga into account, not the movies. But how do you know he 'transformed' into mystic and wasn't just powering up and bringing out his full strength?

cause he looked "normal" before transforming to mystic form

[Bussani]

but in the movie 13 we see Gohan transforming to his mystic form
which makes it a transformation, which makes more sense cause mystic Gohan is the strongest character in dbz and at the start of GT, cause Goku still wasn't able to handle ssj3,cause it so much energy. Gohan could have transofrmed into mystic if he would have trained more, but because of toei being bitch he lost almost everything of his coolness and couldn't handle that much energy anymore.

I was only taking the manga into account, not the movies. But how do you know he 'transformed' into mystic and wasn't just powering up and bringing out his full strength?

cause he looked "normal" before transforming to mystic form

Master Roshi looks 'normal' before powering up to max. Freeza's muscles are small until he powers up. Sometimes bringing your full strength out is enough to cause a change, but that's not always a 'transformation'.

Anyway, here's what they say in the Viz translation.

Gohan: "Dad! It's incredible!"
Goku: "You're right... It is amazing. It's insane! I don't believe it! You haven't changed on the outside... You're not even a Super Saiyajin, but... I didn't know this was even possible..."
Old Kaioshin: "Feh. Transforming isn't everything. That Super-whatever is just show-biz."

It sounds like they're saying that it isn't a transformation to me.

[chibi_goten]

Anyway, here's what they say in the Viz translation.

Gohan: "Dad! It's incredible!"
Goku: "You're right... It is amazing. It's insane! I don't believe it! You haven't changed on the outside... You're not even a Super Saiyajin, but... I didn't know this was even possible..."
Old Kaioshin: "Feh. Transforming isn't everything. That Super-whatever is just show-biz."

It sounds like they're saying that it isn't a transformation to me.

He's not transforming when he turns into his mystic form, it's more like he's just unlocking his power without having to transform. I would call his mystic form more of a technique then anything. I'd say the Old Kai unlocked all of Gohan's dormant power and Gohan has the ability to power up as much as he can without the need to go SSJ, because he becomes as strong as he can, without wasting the excess ki he would use in his SSJ form.

So although it's not a ''transformation'', Gohan has the ability to charge up to his maximum which changes his appearance, possibly due to the current of ki that's is funneling through him.

[Bussani]

Anyway, here's what they say in the Viz translation.

Gohan: "Dad! It's incredible!"
Goku: "You're right... It is amazing. It's insane! I don't believe it! You haven't changed on the outside... You're not even a Super Saiyajin, but... I didn't know this was even possible..."
Old Kaioshin: "Feh. Transforming isn't everything. That Super-whatever is just show-biz."

It sounds like they're saying that it isn't a transformation to me.

He's not transforming when he turns into his mystic form, it's more like he's just unlocking his power without having to transform. I would call his mystic form more of a technique then anything. I'd say the Old Kai unlocked all of Gohan's dormant power and Gohan has the ability to power up as much as he can without the need to go SSJ, because he becomes as strong as he can, without wasting the excess ki he would use in his SSJ form.

So although it's not a ''transformation'', Gohan has the ability to charge up to his maximum which changes his appearance, possibly due to the current of ki that's is funneling through him.

That's pretty much how I see it, too. It also lacks the drawback of putting a strain on your body, I suppose. Even though they trained to reduce that strain, Old Kaioshin still warned them not to be Super Saiyajin when fusing, or they would be stuck that way and the strain would shorten their life spans.

[JulieYBM]

I always figured the Ultimate 'transformation' was just him raising his ki output through an emotional tug. Kind of like pulling one's pants up with emotional vigour.