Did you guys know this? (Androids 17 and 18)

Bussani · Post by **Bussani** » Sat Aug 15, 2009 3:05 am

A-dono wrote:Lets not forget that Cell also identified himself as a 'jinzoningen' when he first appeared, which is just really convoluted (especially in the dub where he calls himself an android). Did Cell even have mechanical parts in him?

Wikipedia wrote:Although Karel Čapek's robots in R.U.R. (Rossum's Universal Robots) (1921)—the play that introduced the word robot to the world—were organic artificial humans, the word robot has come to primarily refer to mechanical humans, animals, and other beings. The term android can mean either one of these, while a cyborg ("cybernetic organism" or "bionic man") would be a creature that is a combination of organic and mechanical parts.

Son Wukong · Post by **Son Wukong** » Sat Aug 15, 2009 5:19 am

Now I wonder why dr.Gero even bothered with half mechanic/half organic beings since Nr.16, who's much stronger than Nr.17&18, is fully mechanical anyway.

Bussani · Post by **Bussani** » Sat Aug 15, 2009 5:28 am

Son Wukong wrote:Now I wonder why dr.Gero even bothered with half mechanic/half organic beings since Nr.16, who's much stronger than Nr.17&18, is fully mechanical anyway.

He also considered #16 a failure. But maybe 17 and 18 were organic so Cell could absorb them? Bulma makes a comment like, "they're mostly human but augmented. That's probably why this 'Cell' thinks he can merge with them."

That is, if it was Gero who envisioned Cell absorbing them in the first place, and not his computer.

Son Wukong · Post by **Son Wukong** » Sat Aug 15, 2009 6:49 am

Bussani wrote: But maybe 17 and 18 were organic so Cell could absorb them? Bulma makes a comment like, "they're mostly human but augmented. That's probably why this 'Cell' thinks he can merge with them."

Of course, totally forgot about the absorption thingy.

Bussani wrote:That is, if it was Gero who envisioned Cell absorbing them in the first place, and not his computer.

For some reason I have no doubt that it was dr.Gero who was the mastermind behind Cell´s creation but there are indeed some circumstances that make it unlikely. After years of keeping track of the most powerful fighters on Earth, could dr.Gero really have calculated that he needed someone like Kanzentai Cell to be sure of his victory? He was even surprised of Goku turning Super Saiya-jin! Kanzentai Cell was a real sinister creation and an extremely powerful bastard. Maybe it was the computer who calculated that a half-blooded Saiya-jin could be of potential significance after the fight with Raditz? Hell, even Vegeta had a hunch that an Earthly Saiya-jin could mean a serious threat to him at the beginning of Z.

It just seems very unlikely that dr.Gero would turn himself into an android to defeat the warriors but to be sure he would create Nr 17&18, but to be very sure he would create Nr.16 (who turned out to be a failure as you said), but to be super sure he would create Cell but to be over 9000 sure Cell could transform to Kanzentai Cell?

Bussani · Post by **Bussani** » Sat Aug 15, 2009 7:13 am

Gero and his computer might not have known just how strong Cell would be. Would there be any way to calculate that ahead of time? They could have just figured "DNA of the universe's most powerful warriors + 17 + 18 = STRONG DUDE." I wonder if Gero himself would have been surprised at just how unstoppable Cell turned out to be.

Innagadadavida · Post by **Innagadadavida** » Sat Aug 15, 2009 3:04 pm

Thanos wrote:I'm waiting for Toriyama to reveal the names of #17 and #18 to be like... Scott and Jessica or something.

It's not like it would have as much of an impact as Mark though. With Mr. Satan, he knew that was his name the whole time. It's possible other characters did too. But as the audience we never heard it. However, if Toriyama did happen to make up some names for 17 and 18, for our amusement, it won't matter in the story. They probably don't remember their names, otherwise they wouldn't continue to call themselves 17 and 18. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that 18's name is something more western because of the color of her hair and skin.

EDIT: Wow, I forgot this was a 3 page thread. I replied to a really old post. XD

Shoryuken · Post by **Shoryuken** » Sat Aug 15, 2009 3:15 pm

Bussani wrote:Gero and his computer might not have known just how strong Cell would be. Would there be any way to calculate that ahead of time? They could have just figured "DNA of the universe's most powerful warriors + 17 + 18 = STRONG DUDE." I wonder if Gero himself would have been surprised at just how unstoppable Cell turned out to be.

I just realised a plot hole, why did Dr. Gero not just insert the genetic material for 17 and 18 into Cell instead of him having to absorb them?

Innagadadavida · Post by **Innagadadavida** » Sat Aug 15, 2009 3:42 pm

Shoryuken wrote:I just realised a plot hole, why did Dr. Gero not just insert the genetic material for 17 and 18 into Cell instead of him having to absorb them?

Don't try to attach logic to Cell absorbing machines to transform. It won't end pretty.

Post by **Herms** » Sat Aug 15, 2009 4:03 pm

Shoryuken wrote:I just realised a plot hole, why did Dr. Gero not just insert the genetic material for 17 and 18 into Cell instead of him having to absorb them?

Because they killed Gero and ran off?

Bussani · Post by **Bussani** » Sat Aug 15, 2009 8:30 pm

Shoryuken wrote:
Bussani wrote:Gero and his computer might not have known just how strong Cell would be. Would there be any way to calculate that ahead of time? They could have just figured "DNA of the universe's most powerful warriors + 17 + 18 = STRONG DUDE." I wonder if Gero himself would have been surprised at just how unstoppable Cell turned out to be.
I just realised a plot hole, why did Dr. Gero not just insert the genetic material for 17 and 18 into Cell instead of him having to absorb them?

We don't really know what he needed from those two. Their infinite energy reactors might have been important.

I forget, but was it the computer's idea for him to absorb 17 and 18, rather than Gero? It might be a filler line or just my imagination. But it might be that the computer came up with the idea to absorb them later, after they'd already killed Gero.

Super Saiyan Turlast x4 · Post by **Super Saiyan Turlast x4** » Sat Aug 15, 2009 9:01 pm

The computer told him he needed to merge with the Androids.

I'm sure Gero had to input the data for him to do such, though. He probably knew the Androids were either take him out soon, or maybe he just wanted a more fierce Android to destroy Goku or the world.

Olivier Hague · Post by **Olivier Hague** » Sun Aug 16, 2009 7:16 am

Super Saiyan Turlast x4 wrote:The computer told him he needed to merge with the Androids.
I'm sure Gero had to input the data for him to do such, though.

Is there a line that implies such a thing though? Because I could see the computer noting (via the spy robot) that the strongest beings out there are No. 17 and No. 18, and engineering Cell in such a way he'll be able to absorb them...

Amigo Ten · Post by **Amigo Ten** » Sun Aug 16, 2009 7:29 am

Olivier Hague wrote:
Super Saiyan Turlast x4 wrote:The computer told him he needed to merge with the Androids.
I'm sure Gero had to input the data for him to do such, though.
Is there a line that implies such a thing though? Because I could see the computer noting (via the spy robot) that the strongest beings out there are No. 17 and No. 18, and engineering Cell in such a way he'll be able to absorb them...

If the computer could note that then it would know there was no one left for Cell to defeat.

And Cell tells Piccolo when they meet that all the data for him has already been collected.

Bussani · Post by **Bussani** » Sun Aug 16, 2009 7:32 am

Cell could always absorb people, and 17 and 18 were mostly human, so maybe he always had the potential to absorb them. The computer, in it's quest to make him the strongest thing ever, may have been the one to calculate that absorbing 17 and 18 would make him awesome.

The computer probably wouldn't know/care if there was anyone left for Cell to fight. It's job was to carry on and finish him in Gero's place, regardless of anything else.

Shoryuken · Post by **Shoryuken** » Sun Aug 16, 2009 8:05 am

Herms wrote:
Shoryuken wrote:I just realised a plot hole, why did Dr. Gero not just insert the genetic material for 17 and 18 into Cell instead of him having to absorb them?
Because they killed Gero and ran off?

Then why did he not try doing it before?

Post by **Herms** » Sun Aug 16, 2009 8:14 am

Well, it's not like he knew when they were going to kill him.

Amigo Ten · Post by **Amigo Ten** » Sun Aug 16, 2009 8:15 am

Because the genetic material of #17 and #18 would just be regular human DNA.

rereboy · Post by **rereboy** » Sun Aug 16, 2009 8:29 am

Amigo Ten wrote:
Olivier Hague wrote:
Super Saiyan Turlast x4 wrote:The computer told him he needed to merge with the Androids.
I'm sure Gero had to input the data for him to do such, though.
Is there a line that implies such a thing though? Because I could see the computer noting (via the spy robot) that the strongest beings out there are No. 17 and No. 18, and engineering Cell in such a way he'll be able to absorb them...
If the computer could note that then it would know there was no one left for Cell to defeat.

And Cell tells Piccolo when they meet that all the data for him has already been collected.

But Cell`s objective is NOT to defeat Goku. Cell`s objective is to become perfect, the supreme being. He`s not like the other androids. He`s evil, but he wasn`t built do destroy Goku like the other were.

Amigo Ten · Post by **Amigo Ten** » Sun Aug 16, 2009 8:36 am

rereboy wrote:Cell`s objective is to become perfect, the supreme being.

Seems kinda pointless.

Post by **Herms** » Sun Aug 16, 2009 9:27 am

rereboy wrote:But Cell`s objective is NOT to defeat Goku. Cell`s objective is to become perfect, the supreme being. He`s not like the other androids. He`s evil, but he wasn`t built do destroy Goku like the other were.

When explaining about the Cell Games, Cell tells Trunks that he was created in order to kill Son Goku, but that this objective holds no real meaning for him.