Dragon Box to include BOTH dub tracks?

B · Post by B » Sun Sep 20, 2009 4:05 pm

jjgp1112 wrote:
B wrote:
LeprikanGT wrote:How do you KNOW it is gonig to suffer. Will you sit two tvs side by side and point out the differences...they difference.....if any will by minor enough to not be able to tell.
How do you KNOW it is gonig to not suffer. Will you not sit two tvs side by side and point out the differences...they difference.....if any will by minor enough to be able to tell.
Yes, but there's still the possiblity that it won't. Why even bother thinking about it? Let's just wait and see. WE'RE not the ones overseeing/doing the encoding, you know.

Yes, but there's still the possiblity that it will. Why not bother thinking about it? I don't see why we should just wait and see. WE'RE not the ones overseeing/doing the encoding, we're the ones receiving the possibly tampered with product.

LeprikanGT · Post by **LeprikanGT** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 4:07 pm

We don't have the same technology as when the JP ones were made, we have dvds with move space on the disk. Its not like the filled up the discs in the originals.

Raki · Post by **Raki** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 4:08 pm

jjgp1112 wrote:
B wrote:
LeprikanGT wrote:How do you KNOW it is gonig to suffer. Will you sit two tvs side by side and point out the differences...they difference.....if any will by minor enough to not be able to tell.
How do you KNOW it is gonig to not suffer. Will you not sit two tvs side by side and point out the differences...they difference.....if any will by minor enough to be able to tell.
Yes, but there's still the possiblity that it won't. Why even bother thinking about it? Let's just wait and see. WE'RE not the ones overseeing/doing the encoding, you know.

Let's be honest here. The only reason you care for the English with Japanese music is because Johnson's score blows. To be fair, the dub with Japanese music is useless to you come episode 68.

SparkyPantsMcGee · Post by **SparkyPantsMcGee** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 4:10 pm

isucamper wrote:Let me repeat the main concern since so many people can't seem to understand it: We're concerned that having 3 audio tracks will compromise video quality. The whole point of the Dbox is to have the video in it's purest original form so compromising it for the sake of not one, but two dub tracks is kind of assinine.

Does anyone here have any of the Japanese Dbox discs? Exactly how much disc space did they use up? I seem to remember the DEX podcast saying they had tons of leftover room on the disc. As long as there is room, I don't think anyone will mind having all 3 audio tracks.

I'm no techie but how is the AUDIO going to effect the VIDEO quality. Again, I don't know much about this kind of thing but most dvd's came with an English, Spanish, French audio options along with subs(in some cases) and the video quality was just fine. So how is this going to effect the Video? Can someone please explain this? If not then this seems like nothing more than whining from a bunch of 7 year old brats.

LeprikanGT · Post by **LeprikanGT** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 4:10 pm

Why is everyone arguing anyways.

This is pretty much a YES or NO question... and my answer is YES I'm buying these Boxes and the Faulconer track helped confirm that.

Everyone can b**** all they want but it won't change it at this point.

Acid_Reign · Post by **Acid_Reign** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 4:11 pm

SSj Kaboom wrote:I sincerely hope that either:

1) The rep is talking out his ass and is incorrect, or
2) FUNimation has gotten good enough with their disc-making that the video quality won't suffer, and the Japanese audio will sound AS good as it possibly can.

Well, they’re going to have to compress something. Like Innagadadavida said, they could probably get away with a slight decrease in video quality without most people being able to tell. This option doesn’t really affect me because I have the R2s so I can always splice the two together, but I still wouldn’t be happy about it because it directly contradicts FUNi’s earlier statement that they “would’t change a damn thing”. Although that very well could have been more deceptive marketing (“Japanese film masters”, anyone?), in that they just meant they wouldn’t fuck with the colors/crop it/etc.

But, even if the video is bit-for-bit the same, at least one of the audio tracks is going to have to take a hit. Let’s just hope it’s the dub BGM track if that’s the case (not saying this out of bias—as a completist/nostalgist I actually want that BGM for my collection, but really, that had its run with the Season Sets, and is certainly “extra” in the scope of this release, which they have specifically targeted at fans of the original).

YouTube · Post by **Hujio** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 4:14 pm

jjgp1112 wrote:Yeah, we have a complete release - a DBZ release that EVERYBODY can be satisfied by, not just a portion. So all of this complaining is absolutely retarded. Why should a portion of the fanbase have to be shunned just to make this a better release?

WOW!! Let's back the truck up for a second? Did you just ask why a portion of the fanbase should be shunned to make a better release? You think it's fair that a portion of the fanbase has been shunned since 1996, but now that they're finally getting exactly what they want we can't shun the other side? That doesn't make much sense to me. For once, a portion of the fanbase has finally been recognized by FUNimation.

isucamper wrote:Does anyone here have any of the Japanese Dbox discs? Exactly how much disc space did they use up? I seem to remember the DEX podcast saying they had tons of leftover room on the disc. As long as there is room, I don't think anyone will mind having all 3 audio tracks.

You have to remember that the DBox discs had 6 episodes per disc with one audio track. These discs are going to have 7 episodes per disc with presumably 3 audio tracks.

Chrono Trigger wrote:As far as technology has come these days it can't be that much of an issue. Plus this is a high profile release so they aren't just gonna botch it up. People should just be happy that we're getting a release everybody can enjoy.

DVD technology hasn't come that far in recent years... that's why we have Blu-ray releases now. They used different encoding, and MPG2 isn't the best encoding to use, but that's what we have for DVDs. Besides, why should people just be happy that everyone can enjoy it? Honestly, and I can't believe I'm saying this, but I've gotten the shaft from FUNimation for well over a decade, why should I care whether or not some dub fans are happy with this release? They didn't care whether I was happy when the season sets came out. While I really have no issue with the recent dub of the show, I could care less whether it is on this release or not. But if it takes anything away from what it could have been by including tons of audio tracks, then I'm going to have issues with it.

BlueSky · Post by **Kaboom** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 4:16 pm

SparkyPantsMcGee wrote:I'm no techie but how is the AUDIO going to effect the VIDEO quality?

Because both video and audio information take up space on a disc. A lot of space. The original DragonBoxes looked great, but in addition they only had ONE audio track. It's probably impossible to have the video quality look that good with THREE audio tracks.

jjgp1112 · Post by **jjgp1112** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 4:17 pm

Hujio wrote:
jjgp1112 wrote:Yeah, we have a complete release - a DBZ release that EVERYBODY can be satisfied by, not just a portion. So all of this complaining is absolutely retarded. Why should a portion of the fanbase have to be shunned just to make this a better release?
WOW!! Let's back the truck up for a second? Did you just ask why a portion of the fanbase should be shunned to make a better release? You think it's fair that a portion of the fanbase has been shunned since 1996, but now that they're finally getting exactly what they want we can't shun the other side? That doesn't make much sense to me. For once, a portion of the fanbase has finally been recognized by FUNimation.

That's pretty immature to want another fanbase to be shunned just because you've been shunned before. Like a "Someone pushed me, so I'm gonna push another kid just because I didn't like being pushed."

Big Boss · Post by **Big Boss** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 4:17 pm

I like these apples.

Seriously, WONDERFUL news. 3 audio tracks; the complete collection for the definitive release.

That's all I'm going to say.

Metalwario64 · Post by **Metalwario64** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 4:17 pm

SSj Kaboom wrote:
SparkyPantsMcGee wrote:I'm no techie but how is the AUDIO going to effect the VIDEO quality?
Because both video and audio information take up space on a disc. A lot of space. The original DragonBoxes looked great, but in addition they only had ONE audio track. It's probably impossible to have the video quality look that good with THREE audio tracks.

Aren't there newer compression methods that could at least soften the blow?

B · Post by B » Sun Sep 20, 2009 4:20 pm

LeprikanGT wrote:Why is everyone arguing anyways.

This is pretty much a YES or NO question... and my answer is YES I'm buying these Boxes and the Faulconer track helped confirm that.

Everyone can b**** all they want but it won't change it at this point.

You're ignoring the real issue. No one cares about this "phase out the dub music, gotta be PURE AND TRUE to the original!" crap, and if they do, it isn't their main concern. It's the hook of this release: the video quality.

Yeah, we're not going to know until someone gets it, but skepticism, caution, and fear of the worst has led me down a pretty good road so far. And if we do get screwed, it'll be too late. Anybody who wanted this release to be perfect is just going to have to suck it up and buy or wait for another release. Again.

isucamper · Post by **isucamper** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 4:20 pm

SparkyPantsMcGee wrote: I'm no techie but how is the AUDIO going to effect the VIDEO quality. Again, I don't know much about this kind of thing but most dvd's came with an English, Spanish, French audio options along with subs(in some cases) and the video quality was just fine. So how is this going to effect the Video? Can someone please explain this? If not then this seems like nothing more than whining from a bunch of 7 year old brats.

Honestly? Ok. You've only got so much memory on the disc to store things like video, audio, subtitle tracks, spectial features, etc.

The quality of the audio and video tracks will vary depending how big their bit rates are, or in other words, how much space they take up on the disc. Compressed audio sounds worse than uncompressed audio. Compressed video looks worse than uncompressed video.

The Dragon Box discs are known for having very high, very uncompressed video tracks. That's their most notorious feature. If the Japanese video tracks filled up the discs, Funimation will have to compress them to make space for the two dub audio tracks that weren't on the Japanese discs. This WILL make the video look worse. How much worse will depend on how much they have to compress it. However, I kinda doubt they were filling the discs up... and audio tracks don't take up a ton of space anyway (especially if they aren't 5.1 surround), so I personally think we're all going to be ok once this is over.

Amigo Ten · Post by **Amigo Ten** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 4:21 pm

jjgp1112 wrote:
Hujio wrote:
jjgp1112 wrote:Yeah, we have a complete release - a DBZ release that EVERYBODY can be satisfied by, not just a portion. So all of this complaining is absolutely retarded. Why should a portion of the fanbase have to be shunned just to make this a better release?
WOW!! Let's back the truck up for a second? Did you just ask why a portion of the fanbase should be shunned to make a better release? You think it's fair that a portion of the fanbase has been shunned since 1996, but now that they're finally getting exactly what they want we can't shun the other side? That doesn't make much sense to me. For once, a portion of the fanbase has finally been recognized by FUNimation.
That's pretty immature to want another fanbase to be shunned just because you've been shunned before. Like a "Someone pushed me, so I'm gonna push another kid just because I didn't like being pushed."

The Funi fans have been getting what they want for years. The fans of the original dub haven't. This release is SUPPOSED to be for them. That's the whole point of it.

jjgp1112 · Post by **jjgp1112** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 4:23 pm

But they're still releasing this in America. And whether you like it or not, Dub fans MATTER in America and will still buy this. So they might as well satisfy them too. Simply having them shunned just because you've been shunned before is immature.

LeprikanGT · Post by **LeprikanGT** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 4:23 pm

@B - arent you being a bit melodramastic calling it 'fear of the worst'?

Did you REALLY think Funi was going to put them out without including their own music?

Raki · Post by **Raki** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 4:24 pm

jjgp1112 wrote:That's pretty immature to want another fanbase to be shunned just because you've been shunned before. Like a "Someone pushed me, so I'm gonna push another kid just because I didn't like being pushed."

Like I typed before, you just want both dub tracks because Johnson's score sucks. Imagine how many fans out there share your tastes and tell me that's worth sacrificing video quality.

SparkyPantsMcGee · Post by **SparkyPantsMcGee** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 4:26 pm

SSj Kaboom wrote:
SparkyPantsMcGee wrote:I'm no techie but how is the AUDIO going to effect the VIDEO quality?
Because both video and audio information take up space on a disc. A lot of space. The original DragonBoxes looked great, but in addition they only had ONE audio track. It's probably impossible to have the video quality look that good with THREE audio tracks.

Here I'm looking at the back of the LoTR Two Towers DVD. The run time is 179 minutes, a lot longer than 6-7 Dragonball episodes(which if you figure about 20 minutes for each episode they would add up to at max 140 minutes). Along with that the disc also had room for both Digital 5.1 surround sound(an option I doubt will be on the Dragonbox) and Stereo surround sound. It also had English and Spanish audio and subtitles. Keeping that in mind the video quality was beyond great. So how will the Dragonbox suffer?

Metalwario64 · Post by **Metalwario64** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 4:26 pm

Wow, this is already getting heavy!

Amigo Ten · Post by **Amigo Ten** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 4:26 pm

jjgp1112 wrote:But they're still releasing this in America. And whether you like it or not, Dub fans MATTER in America and will still buy this. So they might as well satisfy them too. Simply having them shunned just because you've been shunned before is immature.

They are not the target audience for this release though. The point of the US Dragon Box release is... well, that it's a US release of the Dragon Box. It should actually be the Dragon Box. If this affects the audio or video quality then it won't really be the Dragon Box.