No, SSJ Vegetto is not that strong.

[Fox666]

Vegeta used the term many times after scouter usage was stopped. It's synonymous with Ki.

It is also peculiarly constantly used in the Daizenshuu profiles and other descriptions.

I suppose "battle power" also means your actual power for battle.

[Bussani]

The way Kanzentai talks about it makes it seem like "battle powers" are the scouter units. Vegeta could keep using the term after scouters go away, really. But now that it's been questioned, I'm not entirely sure. I'm sure Herms said something about it once.

[hleV]

I believe SEG did mention Battle Power, when stating that Vegetto = Goku x Vegeta.
And it's not x^2 or anything. It's x * y. Simple numbers multiplied.

[lash]

In a sense.
"...the power-up from merging isn’t a sum of the two’s battle powers, but rather as tremendous as multiplication."

But nothing directly about Goku's Battle power x Vegeta's Battle power = Vegetto's Battle power.
The two battle powers do something as tremendous as multiplication, which can have several interpretations other then Goku's BP x Vegeta's BP = Vegetto's BP.

And it's not x^2 or anything. It's x * y. Simple numbers multiplied.

Battle power, just like Kiri is a unit though. And thus would be Battle power or Kiri squared when multiplying two numbers under that unit. Since there's nothing saying Dragonball is magically omitted from simple mathematics, it's still bound by this law unless said otherwise.

[hleV]

In a sense.
"...the power-up from merging isn’t a sum of the two’s battle powers, but rather as tremendous as multiplication."

But nothing directly about Goku's Battle power x Vegeta's Battle power = Vegetto's Battle power.
The two battle powers do something as tremendous as multiplication, which can have several interpretations other then Goku's BP x Vegeta's BP = Vegetto's BP.

We're not talking about THAT line. The line above is applied to any Potara fusion, like Kibitoshin or Elder Kaioshin. Vegetto's case is apparently different since it's flat out Goku x Vegeta in battle powers, which definitely is not the case for other fusions (by my theory it's because the other fusions weren't rivals).

And it's not x^2 or anything. It's x * y. Simple numbers multiplied.

Battle power, just like Kiri is a unit though. And thus would be Battle power or Kiri squared when multiplying two numbers under that unit. Since there's nothing saying Dragonball is magically omitted from simple mathematics, it's still bound by this law unless said otherwise.

Since Goku and Vegeta's BPs are different, it's not x^2. It's x (Goku) * y (Vegeta).

[lash]

We're not talking about THAT line. The line above is applied to any Potara fusion, like Kibitoshin or Elder Kaioshin. Vegetto's case is apparently different since it's flat out Goku x Vegeta in battle powers, which definitely is not the case for other fusions (by my theory it's because the other fusions weren't rivals).

I think you're misunderstanding. That's the only line in the SEG ever said about "Battle Power" in relation to the Potara or Vegetto.
Then we have the picture Goku x Vegeta = Vegetto. Which as I've mentioned, isn't said as Goku's Battle power x Vegeta's Battle power = Vegetto's Battle Power. Therefore there's no reason to take it as such, especially when it wouldn't make sense as it would be Battle Power squared.

Since Goku and Vegeta's BPs are different, it's not x^2. It's x (Goku) * y (Vegeta).

The numbers can be different, but the unit is still the same. It would still be battle power squared when multiplied.

[hleV]

I believe SEG did mention Battle Power, when stating that Vegetto = Goku x Vegeta.

[lash]

It didn't.

That's what I'm trying to get across to you. "Goku x Vegeta = Vegetto" is the only thing that's said, or rather... shown.

[hleV]

Hmm, I remember back in the day I was arguing that Vegetto is Goku x Vegeta in units exclusive to the fusion, which has actually smaller numbers than battle powers. But then this came up:

Well, the Super Exciting Guide says "battle power" regarding the potara fusion.

So I shut up. Now I realize that it wasn't Herms who said that, so I guess Fox666 could've been wrong.

EDIT:

SEG: Story Volume says that Potara is like multiplying the two characters' battle power together.

...the power-up from merging isn’t a sum of the two’s battle powers, but rather as tremendous as multiplication.

Also your own post. You changed your mind?

It's battle power. I don't see a reason why it's nonsensical and malleable when Goku x Vegeta = Vegetto is as clear as the picture in the guide saying it. I haven't seen anything of merit to contradict the claim.

[Fox666]

Knowing Herms, I doubt he would careless use the term "battle power" if it wasn't in the SEG. He explained that the section for Super Saiyan 2 and 3 use the term for "strength".

It didn't.

That's what I'm trying to get across to you. "Goku x Vegeta = Vegetto" is the only thing that's said, or rather... shown.

Excuse me, but who are you to pronounce it does not say like that? If you don't know if it does, you don't know if it does.

You don't need to know japanese to recognize the 戦闘力 (sentou-ryoku) word in the Super Exciting Guide.

[lash]

hleV I don't know if you notice it, but your edit is just repeating what I've already said.
1st Herm's line you posted is just a quickly recalled summary. The second line is what it actually says in the SEG. Again, it still does not say Goku's BP x Vegeta's BP = Vegetto's BP in regards to the "Goku x Vegeta = Vegetto" picture.

Yeah, technically the actual paragraph only says that Potara fusion is so amazing that the increase in battle power is more like multiplication than addition. So technically you could say that it multiplies the two peoples' BP by 100 or something and that would still fall under multiplication. It's only the picture caption thingy that says "Goku x Vegeta=Vegetto".

...But not "Goku's Battle Power x Vegeta's Battle Power = Vegetto's Battle Power".

Also your own post. You changed your mind?

It's battle power. I don't see a reason why it's nonsensical and malleable when Goku x Vegeta = Vegetto is as clear as the picture in the guide saying it. I haven't seen anything of merit to contradict the claim.

Like I said in this topic:

I was actually an avid supporter of Goku's BP x Vegeta's BP = Vegetto BP(which is never actually stated by the picture anyway). But now realizing it... it really can't make any sense. So what do you do? You have to find the next easiest explanation for "Goku x Vegeta = Vegetto" to make sense.

[Rocketman]

I don't see why it "can't make sense".

[lash]

It didn't.

That's what I'm trying to get across to you. "Goku x Vegeta = Vegetto" is the only thing that's said, or rather... shown.

Excuse me, but who are you to pronounce it does not say like that? If you don't know if it does, you don't know if it does.

You don't need to know japanese to recognize the 戦闘力 (sentou-ryoku) word in the Super Exciting Guide.

Stop misunderstanding me, please.
Like I said, it didn't.

The only time Battle Power is ever used is in that paragraph ("...the power-up from merging isn’t a sum of the two’s battle powers, but rather as tremendous as multiplication."). If you read what me and hleV are discussing, he was thinking there was another area in the SEG where it describes Vegetto specifically as being Goku's x Vegeta's Battle Power...which is incorrect, and which you'd be fallible of wrongly misleading him to think so.

Well, the Super Exciting Guide says "battle power" regarding the potara fusion.

In a sense.
"...the power-up from merging isn’t a sum of the two’s battle powers, but rather as tremendous as multiplication."

But nothing directly about Goku's Battle power x Vegeta's Battle power = Vegetto's Battle power.
The two battle powers do something as tremendous as multiplication, which can have several interpretations other then Goku's BP x Vegeta's BP = Vegetto's BP.

We're not talking about THAT line. The line above is applied to any Potara fusion, like Kibitoshin or Elder Kaioshin. Vegetto's case is apparently different since it's flat out Goku x Vegeta in battle powers, which definitely is not the case for other fusions (by my theory it's because the other fusions weren't rivals).

I think you're misunderstanding. That's the only line in the SEG ever said about "Battle Power" in relation to the Potara or Vegetto.
Then we have the picture Goku x Vegeta = Vegetto. Which as I've mentioned, isn't said as Goku's Battle power x Vegeta's Battle power = Vegetto's Battle Power. Therefore there's no reason to take it as such, especially when it wouldn't make sense as it would be Battle Power squared.

Then again, I think hleV just misinterpret you, which made you misinterpret me. So maybe it's not your fault.

[hleV]

If you think about it, there was no big reason to add "battle power" next to the "Vegetto = Goku x Vegeta", as SEG was talking about battle powers overally.
Basically "Not a sum of battle powers, but more like multiplication" and then "Vegetto = Goku x Vegeta". Seems like battle power to me...

[Fox666]

The only time Battle Power is ever used is in that paragraph ("...the power-up from merging isn’t a sum of the two’s battle powers, but rather as tremendous as multiplication.").

That doesn't seems to be far from the truth, the problem is that you are quoting a message (link) from Herms paraphrasing what the SEG said, rather than a direct translation. I am not blaming you, however.

[lash]

Basically "Not a sum of battle powers, but more like multiplication" and then "Vegetto = Goku x Vegeta". Seems like battle power to me...

But we already went over why it doesn't make sense.

That doesn't seems to be far from the truth, the problem is that you are quoting a message (link) from Herms paraphrasing what the SEG said, rather than a direct translation. I am not blaming you, however.

The rest of the stuff in his post in the earlier paragraphs likely are paraphrased. How do you know that particular statement is not a direct translation though?(I'm expecting opposing proof)

"Tremendous" certainly isn't the type of adjective that first pops in your mind when you're paraphrasing.

Paraphrasing would be more like this:

The Vegetto scan is from the Super Exciting Guide Story Volume. It says that the effects of the Potara are more like multiplication than merely adding together the two peoples' battle powers, and that "Goku x Vegeta=Vegetto".

link

[Piccolo Daimao]

The only reason "Goku x Vegeta = Vegetto" doesn't "make sense" to some people is because it doesn't fit in with their personal opinions or battle powers. However, there is literally nothing that says the aforementioned equation for Vegetto can't make sense.

Just because you want to look at everything through a mathematician's eyes and over-analyze every single insignificant little quote doesn't mean everyone else should.

[Fox666]

That doesn't seems to be far from the truth, the problem is that you are quoting a message (link) from Herms paraphrasing what the SEG said, rather than a direct translation. I am not blaming you, however.

The rest of the stuff in his post in the earlier paragraphs likely are paraphrased. How do you know that particular statement is not a direct translation though?(I'm expecting opposing proof)

"Tremendous" certainly isn't the type of adjective that first pops in your mind when you're paraphrasing.

Herms is translating, however we can't trust 100% a phrase that starts with "it says". He could at least put it beetween quotes so that we know what is directly taken from the guide. It has been asked multiple times for a direct translation of what is on that page and it has been ignored.

Still you are right when you say that the line that uses the "battle power" word is the babbling about sum and multiplication.

[lash]

However, there is literally nothing that says the aforementioned equation for Vegetto can't make sense.

Just because you want to look at everything through a mathematician's eyes and over-analyze every single insignificant little quote doesn't mean everyone else should.

Sounds like you're attacking a strawman.

Goku x Vegeta = Vegetto can make sense, it probably could be interpreted in a couple of ways.

Goku's Battle Power x Vegeta's Battle Power = Vegetto's Battle Power doesn't. And since no quote says that in the first place, there's no reason to think so anyway. That's like a statement going "a number + another number = a bigger number" and someone going ahead and interpreting it as saying "4 + 4 = 44". Then actually trying to argue that such logic is right, or saying that not thinking it in such a simple way is over-analyzing it. It's pretty much a fallacy.

If it's an "insignificant little quote", why would people debate it in the first place lol?

Herms is translating, however we can't trust 100% a phrase that starts with "it says". He could at least put it beetween quotes so that we know what is directly taken from the guide. It has been asked multiple times for a direct translation of what is on that page and it has been ignored.

Again, you'd need proof to suggest it's not a direct translation and just a paraphrase. In that same paragraph he uses a colon and still starts the translation with "it says", meaning him beginning with "it says" doesn't automatically turn the rest of the translation into a paraphrase.

[hleV]

Goku's Battle Power x Vegeta's Battle Power = Vegetto's Battle Power doesn't.

Here's where you're wrong.

And since no quote says that in the first place, there's no reason to think so anyway.

SEG told us that Potara fusion is not an addition of battle powers, but more like a multiplication (of battle powers!). So we're talking about battle powers here. And then there's Vegetto = Goku x Vegeta, showing us that Vegetto is not a sum of Goku and Vegeta's battle powers, but a literal multiplication of freaking battle powers. Do you really find sense in adding "Vegetto = Goku x Vegeta" without providing the units? (They're actually provided, just not in the very same block of the page.)

And again, it was all about battle powers. If it wasn't, then there would be something that tells us that near the "Vegetto = Goku x Vegeta" part.