Did Goku Ever Really Change As A Person?

[matt0044]

As he got stronger, finding challenges became very difficult. Hence he saved Piccoro and Vegeta. You could argue he had more reason with Piccoro, specially since they might need the DB and he was friend's with Kami.

A good justification. I guess this was a sort of secondary reason for Goku.

[DBZAOTA482]

Chi-Chi doesn't seem to have much of a bust at all, and of course, there can be limitations with artwork on paper

Well as far as the anime's concerned, she always seemed to have as much of a chest, if not more than, as Bulma. Kame'shinnin even had his face in those jugs.

I remember being disappointed by this fact after reading the manga, especially considering her name is Chichi. Gohan must have milked her dry.

[Bussani]

he appeared to learn the value of life

I don't know why this keeps coming up. Specially the thing about Kami teaching him that. Is there a source for this?

It's never outright stated or anything, but I think there's more to it than him just keeping challenging guys around. Look at how he berates Vegeta for killing the Ginyu Force members when they were defenseless, or how he wants Vegeta to leave Ginyu-Frog alone. He even gave all of them chances to just pack up and leave without a fight. I don't think he acted quite like that before the 23rd tournament.

[Piccolo Daimao]

Chi-Chi doesn't seem to have much of a bust at all, and of course, there can be limitations with artwork on paper

Well as far as the anime's concerned, she always seemed to have as much of a chest, if not more than, as Bulma. Kame'shinnin even had his face in those jugs.

I remember being disappointed by this fact after reading the manga, especially considering her name is Chichi. Gohan must have milked her dry.

Well, she's old, so they could've sagged. Or maybe she got a breast reduction for medical reasons.

[buu101]

Chi-Chi doesn't seem to have much of a bust at all, and of course, there can be limitations with artwork on paper

Well as far as the anime's concerned, she always seemed to have as much of a chest, if not more than, as Bulma. Kame'shinnin even had his face in those jugs.

I remember being disappointed by this fact after reading the manga, especially considering her name is Chichi. Gohan must have milked her dry.

Well, she's old, so they could've sagged. Or maybe she got a breast reduction for medical reasons.

That would explain the poor financial situation the Son family was in.

[sonikku956]

Chi-Chi doesn't seem to have much of a bust at all, and of course, there can be limitations with artwork on paper

Well as far as the anime's concerned, she always seemed to have as much of a chest, if not more than, as Bulma. Kame'shinnin even had his face in those jugs.

I remember being disappointed by this fact after reading the manga, especially considering her name is Chichi. Gohan must have milked her dry.

Well, she's old, so they could've sagged. Or maybe she got a breast reduction for medical reasons.

She's younger than Bulma XD

Also, in the Jump special, she appears larger than Bulma.

[Piccolo Daimao]

Well, she's old, so they could've sagged. Or maybe she got a breast reduction for medical reasons.

She's younger than Bulma XD

Also, in the Jump special, she appears larger than Bulma.

Blooma could just naturally have larger breasts. And, to pull something out of my ass, Chi-Chi could've gotten a boob job by the Jump special.

[Cipher]

Where my giant-ass Goku post at?

Oh, here it is:

Goku's an adrenaline junkie suffering from increasing ennui as the series progresses. This also makes him a cocky bastard.

At the beginning of the series, he knows literally nothing about the world. It's vast and interesting, and although he's brash and occasionally full of himself, he's still rather modest about his abilities compared to other fighters'.

We get hints that his love of challenges may be his great flaw as the series progresses. He gives a senzu bean to Piccolo rather than imprisoning him somehow, just to keep a rival around. He lets Vegeta go for the same reason.

After turning Super Saiyan though, it really starts to hurt him. He's so anxious for a challenge on his level that he's comfortable not pre-empting the Androids (as Bulma says they should). He's so excited for his son to give him a good show that he throws a Senzu bean at Cell.

By the Boo arc, what's left for him? This is a guy who is de facto the strongest man in the universe, who has seen what the afterlife has to offer and come back. I think that's actually a bigger part of his decision to remain dead after the Cell Games than wanting to not attract threats (which I see you agree with, having read through your post fully). He's bored. He wants to see if there are better challenges in the afterlife. It's understandable too that seven years later, he wouldn't put his full effort into either the Vegeta or Majin Boo fights at first; he wants to see if others can crop up in the next generation and excite him.

This is actually why I think Oob serves as a decent ending for his character. He reignites his interest. He gives Goku an outlet, someone to pass knowledge onto and someone to provide a challenge. Piccolo saying, "He looked happy to me. Happier than I've seen him in a long time," is incredibly telling. We see it in "Yo! Son Goku and His Friends Return!" Goku is absolutely bored to tears in that ten-year period.

I think it also factors into his cockier behavior in GT. I know some people have called his behavior out of character (messing around with weaker opponents, denying help from others, giving up too early in fights), but I think it's right in line with where he's heading at the end of Z in the manga. In Toei's universe, Oob doesn't provide quite the satisfaction Goku expected. So we have someone even more bored. Of course he's going to toy with weaker opponents to get what fun and challenge he can out of them (Muuma, Sigma Force Cannon, etc). Of course he's going to want the big-bads for himself (denying help from Gotenks, although his strength would arguably be unnecessary as well, flying off to fight the Evil Dragons on his own). Of course he's a little more anxious to lay down and accept that finally, finally, he might actually lose a fight (Super 17, Yi Xing Long). I rather like the imperfect Goku that GT presents.

So, yeah. Goku's naive, innocent and pure. He's no heartless murderer like the other Saiyans. But his major flaw is his love of challenges, and the more impossible it becomes to find them, the greater a toll it takes on his character. In fact, I'd say he's the only character in Dragon Ball to actually become a worse person as the series goes on.

/thoughts/against-the-grain analysis

[matt0044]

Man, Goku's so unlikeable that he's likable. If that makes sense...

[soulnova]

he appeared to learn the value of life

I don't know why this keeps coming up. Specially the thing about Kami teaching him that. Is there a source for this?

It's never outright stated or anything, but I think there's more to it than him just keeping challenging guys around. Look at how he berates Vegeta for killing the Ginyu Force members when they were defenseless, or how he wants Vegeta to leave Ginyu-Frog alone. He even gave all of them chances to just pack up and leave without a fight. I don't think he acted quite like that before the 23rd tournament.

He was never heartless and of course, he's going to warn them that they will end up severely beaten or even die. He never has kill more than he needs. He simply kills for food and when seriously threatened.

Where my giant-ass Goku post at?

Oh, here it is:

Goku's an adrenaline junkie suffering from increasing ennui as the series progresses. This also makes him a cocky bastard.

At the beginning of the series, he knows literally nothing about the world. It's vast and interesting, and although he's brash and occasionally full of himself, he's still rather modest about his abilities compared to other fighters'.

We get hints that his love of challenges may be his great flaw as the series progresses. He gives a senzu bean to Piccolo rather than imprisoning him somehow, just to keep a rival around. He lets Vegeta go for the same reason.

After turning Super Saiyan though, it really starts to hurt him. He's so anxious for a challenge on his level that he's comfortable not pre-empting the Androids (as Bulma says they should). He's so excited for his son to give him a good show that he throws a Senzu bean at Cell.

By the Boo arc, what's left for him? This is a guy who is de facto the strongest man in the universe, who has seen what the afterlife has to offer and come back. I think that's actually a bigger part of his decision to remain dead after the Cell Games than wanting to not attract threats (which I see you agree with, having read through your post fully). He's bored. He wants to see if there are better challenges in the afterlife. It's understandable too that seven years later, he wouldn't put his full effort into either the Vegeta or Majin Boo fights at first; he wants to see if others can crop up in the next generation and excite him.

This is actually why I think Oob serves as a decent ending for his character. He reignites his interest. He gives Goku an outlet, someone to pass knowledge onto and someone to provide a challenge. Piccolo saying, "He looked happy to me. Happier than I've seen him in a long time," is incredibly telling. We see it in "Yo! Son Goku and His Friends Return!" Goku is absolutely bored to tears in that ten-year period.

I think it also factors into his cockier behavior in GT. I know some people have called his behavior out of character (messing around with weaker opponents, denying help from others, giving up too early in fights), but I think it's right in line with where he's heading at the end of Z in the manga. In Toei's universe, Oob doesn't provide quite the satisfaction Goku expected. So we have someone even more bored. Of course he's going to toy with weaker opponents to get what fun and challenge he can out of them (Muuma, Sigma Force Cannon, etc). Of course he's going to want the big-bads for himself (denying help from Gotenks, although his strength would arguably be unnecessary as well, flying off to fight the Evil Dragons on his own). Of course he's a little more anxious to lay down and accept that finally, finally, he might actually lose a fight (Super 17, Yi Xing Long). I rather like the imperfect Goku that GT presents.

So, yeah. Goku's naive, innocent and pure. He's no heartless murderer like the other Saiyans. But his major flaw is his love of challenges, and the more impossible it becomes to find them, the greater a toll it takes on his character. In fact, I'd say he's the only character in Dragon Ball to actually become a worse person as the series goes on.

/thoughts/against-the-grain analysis

YES.

Which is the reason why the DBO timeline left me impressed with Goku and Vegeta leaving for a last fight. It just felt right.