Ssj3 Vegeta

[Ryuman]

The idea that real world time screws with the ability to ascend the first time at least makes sense since both Goku and Gotenks achieved it in a place where time is distorted.

The afterlife doesn't distort time, it puts you in a position where you can live (In a sense) without the stresses experienced when being alive.

[TheMightyOzaru]

The idea that real world time screws with the ability to ascend the first time at least makes sense since both Goku and Gotenks achieved it in a place where time is distorted.

The afterlife doesn't distort time, it puts you in a position where you can live (In a sense) without the stresses experienced when being alive.

Time also has no meaning in otherworld. You aren't under time constraints in otherworld.

[Marco Polo]

The idea that real world time screws with the ability to ascend the first time at least makes sense since both Goku and Gotenks achieved it in a place where time is distorted.

The afterlife doesn't distort time, it puts you in a position where you can live (In a sense) without the stresses experienced when being alive.

Time also has no meaning in otherworld. You aren't under time constraints in otherworld.

Which is exactly what Ryuman said: "it puts you in a position where you can live (In a sense) without the stresses experienced when being alive." It's not time distortion.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Umm... Ryuman said nothing remotely close to what I was trying to convey. In otherworld there is no time constraint. In the ROSAT time is slowed exponentially. Ssj3 is also limited by time in the normal world. It would appear time is all around connected to Ssj3. Now of course this could all just be coincidence, which is what I'm leaning toward since I don't think Ssj3 is some super special secret transformation, but it is a possibility.

[Kaboom]

Super Saiyan 3's energy or "time" drain isn't any less drastic in the Room of Spirit and Time, if that's what's in question, here. After training with it but before facing off against Boo, Goten and Trunks remark about how quickly it drained them and even canceled out the Fusion.

[Dorexx]

I think Vegeta should never have this form. His time and legacy have pretty much ended in the conclusion of the Buu Arc, and I believe it should stay like that. (well, then he goes SSj4, but hey, that didn't seem special at all; more like a quick necessity) The SSj3 form is, to me, the result of whatever mysterious training Goku has done in Heaven. I think SSj3 is part of the reason why Toriyama said Goku trained in Heaven during those seven years, 'cause Heaven is supposed to be this amazing, final place that Goku has yet to visit. As for the kids, they are pretty much the strongest saiyans ever, in terms of potential. Gohan was impressed with Goten's power during their training, and they both turned SSj like it was nothing. I think Toriyama should've made their potential a little more clear before giving them the form, but they definitely had an enormous hidden power. Maybe both he and Trunks were destined to achieve SSj3 individually one day, but in any case, mixing them together as kids doesn't make it too far fetched for them to achieve the form right now, for me. Of course, just because they have the biggest potential in saiyan history doesn't mean they'll reach all of it during their life, especially if they care about other things than fighting, which they end up doing.

Anyway, yeah, it's really tasteless to give Vegeta this form now. He is naturally inferior to Goku, and the fact that he did the impossible and became a SSj and beyond, which was destined for Goku only, already makes him incredibly special. Think about it... Goku was chosen by destiny/legend/whatever to be the SSj, and Vegeta managed to change that and makes himself one as well. That's like, I don't know, becoming God for a second and change how the universe works. In your favor. That's how I like to see it anyway.

[TheMightyOzaru]

The Kanzenban says he should have it. Vegeta isn't "showing Kakarotto defeat" without this form. Vegeta's legacy says he is Goku's rival and that they work off each other. His little speech during Goku's fight with Buu is nothing more than a realization of Goku's strengths and why he was never able to remain on top. Vegeta's legacy doesn't end until Goku's does.

[Rocketman]

Last I checked the ROSAT can only be used for 2 days at a time, not 2 days of your life. Vegeta also died so even if the 2 days at a time thing isn't the case, he should be able to use it again based on his death since his last visit.

"No-one can spend more than 48 hours in the Room of Spirit and Time. Total. Lifelong." - Piccolo

I never understood this theory to be honest. There is really nothing suggesting this is the case. The idea that real world time screws with the ability to ascend the first time at least makes sense since both Goku and Gotenks achieved it in a place where time is distorted.

Vegeta trained even harder than Goku did over the seven years, but had no idea there was anything beyond SS2.

[Fox666]

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[GogetaSSJ2]

I don't think Vegeta would even care about gaining more power after the ultimate battle with Kid Buu. He admitted Goku was the better warrior. The main purpose of Vegeta training and continuing to excel to new levels of power throughout the series was in the hopes of surpassing Goku and become the "Alpha Saiyan" (I guess that's one way of saying it) once again. But during the Kid Buu fight, he pretty much admits that will never happen and he just lets Goku have the mantle of "best fighter". Now with that motivation now gone, I don't see how it could be realistically possible for Vegeta to attain SSJ3. He doesn't care about being "better" then Goku anymore near the end of Z; so in my thoughts most likely not.

[Saiga]

At the 28th Tenkaichi Budokai, Goku was looking forward to fighting Uub but not Vegeta, which suggests Vegeta still wasn't as powerful as Kid Buu/Uub.

But would Goku know the results of Vegeta's training if he hasn't seen him in five years?

@Puto The lookout was also destroyed, but that was restored with the rest of the Earth. So I think the entrance to the RoSaT, being connected to the lookout, was also restored.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Is that stated/implied somewhere? I very highly doubt that Vegeta would enter if he believed he would actually lose to Goku.

They were fighting in a tournament, you would expect Goku & Vegeta to turn Super Saiyan 3 there and have an all-out fight? I don't think so.

I don't exactly understand how are you disagreeing what what I wrote.

I don't believe that Super Saiyan 3 is like the other Super Saiyan forms. With the other Super Saiyan forms, one had to train & reach a certain level, and then he could achieve the transformation (after meeting the emotional conditions for some of the forms). For Super Saiyan 3 though, it seems to not be so simple. When someone was to transform into a Super Saiyan, Super Saiyan Grade 2, Super Saiyan Grade 3, or Super Saiyan 2, the transformation happened instantly, even the first time. Super Saiyan 3, however, didn't happen instantly when Goku transformed against Innocent Boo, and Goku even said that it took him time because he still wasn't used to it. This leads me to believe that Super Saiyan 3 is not that easy to reach, even in the AfterLife. So, I guess it probably needs much more training if Vegeta is in the Living World.

[Saiga]

But with his living body, which is even harder to maintain SS3 in, Goku can transform to SS3 instantly.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

But with his living body, which is even harder to maintain SS3 in, Goku can transform to SS3 instantly.

He had gotten used to at that point, or maybe it happened instantly because the whole situation raised his adrenaline, which helped him transform so fast.
My point is that we never saw a long Saiyan transformation in the manga before Super Saiyan 3. It was hard for Goku to transform at that point, and it wasn't even his first time. So, I imagine the first time to be very, very hard.

[Saiga]

But with his living body, which is even harder to maintain SS3 in, Goku can transform to SS3 instantly.

He had gotten used to at that point, or maybe it happened instantly because the whole situation raised his adrenaline, which helped him transform so fast.
My point is that we never saw a long Saiyan transformation in the manga before Super Saiyan 3. It was hard for Goku to transform at that point, and it wasn't even his first time. So, I imagine the first time to be very, very hard.

Gohan's Super Saiyan 2 at the tournament was long, wasn't it? I keep getting conflicting answers on that >.>

[DBZGTKOSDH]

It did took Gohan some time, but it seemed like it was intentional from Gohan, or maybe because Gohan wasn't trained enough. But either way, Gohan just needed more time to concentrate, while for Goku it was actually hard to transform.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Last I checked the ROSAT can only be used for 2 days at a time, not 2 days of your life. Vegeta also died so even if the 2 days at a time thing isn't the case, he should be able to use it again based on his death since his last visit.

"No-one can spend more than 48 hours in the Room of Spirit and Time. Total. Lifelong." - Piccolo

I never understood this theory to be honest. There is really nothing suggesting this is the case. The idea that real world time screws with the ability to ascend the first time at least makes sense since both Goku and Gotenks achieved it in a place where time is distorted.

Vegeta trained even harder than Goku did over the seven years, but had no idea there was anything beyond SS2.

Ok Vegeta died so his time probably reset, Vegeta knows of SSJ3 and is equal to Goku in the latter half of the Buu saga. I would imagine about 4 years of training and using the ROSAT one more time, would allow him to ascend.

[hleV]

They were fighting in a tournament, you would expect Goku & Vegeta to turn Super Saiyan 3 there and have an all-out fight? I don't think so.

Goku could just transform into a SS3 for a second and finish Vegeta (if Vegeta didn't have SS3 to counter that). Yet Vegeta entered the TB.

I don't believe that Super Saiyan 3 is like the other Super Saiyan forms.

I never said it was.

Super Saiyan 3, however, didn't happen instantly when Goku transformed against Innocent Boo, and Goku even said that it took him time because he still wasn't used to it.

Not that it matters, but he transformed instantly against Pure Boo.

I guess it probably needs much more training if Vegeta is in the Living World.

Again, you don't know how strong Vegeta is at the end of the series.

[TheMightyOzaru]

With Vegeta being Goku's equal and Vegeta's persistence, I'm sure he could do it with 10 year time frame he was given.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Goku could just transform into a SS3 for a second and finish Vegeta (if Vegeta didn't have SS3 to counter that). Yet Vegeta entered the TB.

You know that Goku doesn't fight like that. He wants to have a great fight, so he can have it with Super Saiyan 2.

Again, you don't know how strong Vegeta is at the end of the series.

So, the only thing we can do is guess how strong Vegeta is. And like I said in my previous posts, I have base Vegeta equal to base Goku (ignoring BoG for now).