Need official Power Levels for Dragonball

[Akira]

That's what I am saying man, these hundred million power levels make no sense at all. Someone like Goku is what he feared, Goku came to the fight with 300,000 in Oozaru that would be 3,000,000. More than enough to give form 2 Freeza a run for his money and enough to at least be a minor nusaince to Form 4 Freeza at 25% or so. That is, if we go at Frieza's max being 12,000,000. Even if he went to 100%, had he let the saiyans live and enough of them became that power and bum rushed him as Oozaru they -might- stand a chance. Then there was the super Saiyan rumor.

But Freeza having a max of 120,000,000 makes his worrying about saiyan power levels a joke. He wouldn't even have bothered to blow up Vegeta (the planet) if that were the case.

[Rocketman]

That's why I don't take the Daizenshuu seriously. Goku going from 90,000 to 3,000,000 in one Zenkai? Nappa being in the 4000s, yet Goku (8000) states the fight could go on forever? Freeza being afraid of Saiyan potential when he's over 30,000 times stronger? Bah.

[Dayspring]

Especially when, for the longest time, he thought Vegeta was probably the best candidate to be the next super saiyan. The proof was there in that Vegeta, still a child, became at least among the super elite. But even as an adult he only attained a PL of 18,000. He did meet the legend and surpassed the rest of the race. Rather than make Vegeta his pet, why didn't Freeza just kill him?

[Akira]

Because he probably thought a Super Saiyan under his control would be a nice thing. He was too arrogant to think one could actually match him in battle.

I think the Daizenshuu levels are correct across the board with the exception of the final battle with Freeza and Super Saiyan Goku. I think somewhere there is a mistake in gauging those. I could have sworn in the anime at least they caught Freeza and Super Saiyan Goku Battle powers in action on a large computer scouter on one of the Freeza planets, but it blew up as soon as they tried to get an exact reading. I remember there was a guy there who was the same race as Kui and some other alien guys in that scene.

As far as Nappa goes, I think he may have been a bit above 4000 when he went all out against Goku. I know Vegeta was capable of more than his listed battle power as well. Here's what we know for certain about Goku's Battle power during that fight:

Son Goku:
5000 - Ki suppressed
8000 - Maximum power
16000 - Kaioken x2
24000 - Kaioken x3
32000 - Kaioken x4

Those levels are more or less undisputed for Goku during that battle. Now Nappa may have been more than 4000, but exacty what I haven't determined yet. Vegeta's maximum in that battle I have determined though.

Vegeta and Goku face off, Goku attacks him with 8000. Vegeta beats Goku around and taunts him asking to see the power Goku had used on Nappa. Goku goes to Kaioken x2 and 16000 and catches Vegeta at 18000 off guard, but Vegeta still beats Goku down. Goku gets desperate and goes to Kaioken x3 at 24000 to outmatch Vegeta. He beats Vegeta around and Vegeta becomes angry.

Vegeta powers up and then flies up to destroy the earth with a Gallick-ho beam. Goku has no choice but to try and stop it. He uses a Kaioken x3 Kamehameha. It is dead even with Vegeta's Gallick-ho which indicates that Vegeta's maximum powered up state was 24000 for that battle. If it wasn't, then Goku would never have needed to nearly destroy himself going Kaioken x4 and 32000 to overpower Vegeta's beam.

24000 was Vegeta's base power by the namek saga, which also supports this. Nappa is harder to get an exact idea on, beause there isn't any battle power defining moment like Goku and Vegeta's beam battle to go by.

[Rocketman]

I'd put Nappa about 7500-8500 at full power. Strong enough that non-Kaioken Goku could say the fight would go on for a long time, yet weak enough that Vegeta would tell him to hurry up and kill Piccolo, Krillin and Gohan, because "Their help might make him a challenge!" when they read Goku at 5000.

[Super DC]

Vegeta actually powers up another time after seeing kaio-ken. Vegeta talks along the lines of showing what a real saiyan can do. Basically its Vegeta full power >> Vegeta near full power >> Goku kaio-ken >> Goku. Vegeta's full power and near full power are inbetween 17,000 and 22,000, because Vegeta was stronger than Goku kaio-ken yet weaker than kaio-ken times three.

[Dayspring]

I actually just reread the Saiyan saga a few days ago, so I'm going to put my two cents in:

1) Nappa increases his power level 3 times from when he begins fighting Krillin+co to when he is defeated by Goku. As a result, I feel his true strength is along these lines: upon his arrival on Earth his PL is 4000. The first time he increases his PL is the most dramatic, so I'm guessing it went up to 6,000. When Goku said Nappa wasn't as strong as he claimed to be, Nappa increased his PL again, my guess to between 6,500 and 7,000. When Nappa focused his strength in order to go all out, they were about equal, so my guess is his PL increased to between 7,500 and 8,000. It was here that Goku said "at this rate the fight could go on all day." I wouldn't put him above 8,000 because of the fact that Goku still had the upper hand and Vegeta immediately recognized the Nappa would eventually lose.

2) Kaioken is wears off quickly and might simply last in bursts. Proof comes from the fact that Goku uses Kaioken once against Nappa and five times against Vegeta. Also, when Bulma's scouter explodes (at kaioken x3), before Kamesennin asks her what's up, the screen shows a PL of 12,000, which would indicate that kaioken x2 wore off.

Relevence: I think it explains why Goku kaioken x3 and x4 didn't unintentionally kill Vegeta. His body can't support those two levels, and kaioken isn't permanent. In the manga the ki-struggle was going in Vegeta's favor. I think kaioken x3 was wearing off, and that the kamehameha from kaioken x4 couldn't use its full potential because Goku couldn't even handle x3.

[Super DC]

Uh, it wasn't 12,000 it was over 21,000 when Roshi asked what Goku's power was.

[Dayspring]

Uh, it wasn't 12,000 it was over 21,000 when Roshi asked what Goku's power was.

Bulma exclaims and then Roshi asks whats up. When she exclaimed, the screen over her eye showed 12,000. Then she explains what's up and says the readings. "17,000...19,000...21,000...!" and boom, it exploded.

[Pedro The Hutt]

1) Nappa increases his power level 3 times from when he begins fighting Krillin+co to when he is defeated by Goku.

Erm... weren't Raditz, Nappa and Vegeta incapable of the whole raising and lowering their battle potential thing when they first visited earth? ^^;;

Anyhow, even in the manga it's pointed out that the whole numerically estimating once's fighting potential is a very inaccurate thing to do. XD I wouldn't fuss too much over "power levels", and I wouldn't come even close to guessing them in the post Freeza arc era.

[Rocketman]

1) Nappa increases his power level 3 times from when he begins fighting Krillin+co to when he is defeated by Goku.

Erm... weren't Raditz, Nappa and Vegeta incapable of the whole raising and lowering their battle potential thing when they first visited earth? ^^;;

Raditz, maybe, but both Nappa and Vegeta are shown to power up on Earth.

[Xyex]

And yet, at the same time, it's mentioned that they couldn't hide their powers at that point. Vegeta knew how to channel energy into an attack like Goku and Piccolo did against Raditz but that's it. Nappa probably could do the same and used that as a pusdo-power-up along the lines Kaio Ken or something.

[MyVisionity]

1) Nappa increases his power level 3 times from when he begins fighting Krillin+co to when he is defeated by Goku.

Erm... weren't Raditz, Nappa and Vegeta incapable of the whole raising and lowering their battle potential thing when they first visited earth? ^^;;

Yes, they were incapable of that. What Nappa and Vegeta did was power up to the full extent of what they already possessed. What Goku and the others do is concentrate their energy to one point, and then can amplify/de-amplify their battle powers at will, meaning that what you see isn't always what you get.

[Dayspring]

Vegeta stated that he could do that too before he powers up. My guess is that the Elite Saiyans can control it to a certain extent. Since it's purely a physical sense in which it's being used by them, my guess is that they can increase their strength to a certain limit, but can't decrease it below a limit, either (ex: Nappa's lowest would be 4,000). Meanwhile Goku+co have COMPLETE control.

[Fuujin]

Aye, power levels seem to differ with overall energy output even if one is not able to willingly control them per se (for example, Gohan's reading was diminishing when he was becoming weaker in the battle with Reecoome). Basically, they're able to power-up and raise their PL above a certain average, but not hide them. The skill wasn't even that rare in Freeza's ranks, Ginyu could do it also.

Besides, PL's are simply evil.

[Akira]

Two things I wanted to touch on. First off, thanks for the Daizenshuu scans of those two power level pages. Are those the only pages like that in any of those guidebooks, or were there any others anywhere that listed the Ginyu force power levels or anything like that?

Second, is Vegeta's battle power listed anywhere for the Jeice and Ginyu Fight and the fight against Form 1 Freeza? Freeza was at 530,000 and Vegeta seemed to be giving his first form a hard time. If Vegeta was anywhere close to 500,000, that would have made Goku's base of 300,000 look off balanced. That is the ONLY thing I can see that could justify those insane battle powers for Super Saiyan and Freeza form 4. But that negates Freeza fearing the saiyans at all. It is still somewhat confusing.

[Gamingdevil]

Two things I wanted to touch on. First off, thanks for the Daizenshuu scans of those two power level pages. Are those the only pages like that in any of those guidebooks, or were there any others anywhere that listed the Ginyu force power levels or anything like that?

Second, is Vegeta's battle power listed anywhere for the Jeice and Ginyu Fight and the fight against Form 1 Freeza? Freeza was at 530,000 and Vegeta seemed to be giving his first form a hard time. If Vegeta was anywhere close to 500,000, that would have made Goku's base of 300,000 look off balanced. That is the ONLY thing I can see that could justify those insane battle powers for Super Saiyan and Freeza form 4. But that negates Freeza fearing the saiyans at all. It is still somewhat confusing.

If I remember correctly I think Vegeta's PL versus Frieza was 480,000 although I could've read that in a fan based interpretation though

[Chibi Mystic Gohan]

Vegeta had no recorded power level, 'though it must have been near Freeza's.

[Dayspring]

Vegeta had no recorded power level, 'though it must have been near Freeza's.

Not necessarily. Freeza wasn't at full when he struggled w/Vegeta. Both were in the process of increasing their strengths.

[Super DC]

Freeza powered up to his max. Piccolo even comments that Freeza was getting ready to fight.