Does anyone else dislike how Toriyama used Future Trunks

[ABED]

Except supervillains aren't new to Gohan. He's fought Freeza with more gusto, and he fought against the Saiyans. He's been in horrible situations before. My beef isn't with Gohan needing his hand held, it's that the new hero of the story needs his hand held. One thing I've always loved about Goku is his confidence in himself. Even when he knew he probably couldn't win, he was ready to do his best.

[TheGmGoken]

Except supervillains aren't new to Gohan. He's fought Freeza with more gusto, and he fought against the Saiyans. He's been in horrible situations before.

What the world at his hands> No? With Freeza they had Vegeta,Piccolo, and Goku. Wasn't no where as much pressure. With the saiyans he had Krillin,PIccolo, Goku, Tien, and even Yamcha. He's been in bad situations but NEVER had the world rested on his shoulders. NEVER have the world been destroyed had he lost. NEVER had he had a moment where he got no more chances. NEVER had Gohan been the strongest(For a long time) and the only one capable to do something.

My beef isn't with Gohan needing his hand held, it's that the new hero of the story needs his hand held.

It's his first time. He was under the most pressure ever. In matter of fact a lot of new heroes got a helping hand. Not a big issue.

One thing I've always loved about Goku is his confidence in himself. Even when he knew he probably couldn't win, he was ready to do his best.

Yes Goku is a confident fighter. Gohan is a confident book nerd. See the difference? One is a fighter. F-i-g-h-t-e-r. While one is a book nerd who is only 9 - 10 with the world in his hands. If you don't see how he would't have confidence in fighting with that much pressure at that age. Then you need to hang with more kids or watch more anime with kids(HELL EVEN ADULTS/TEENS) with someone having pressure.

[DBZ Mick]

The main problem I have with Gohan's development in the story arc is his turn in the Cell Game. The whole arc he is sick of being left behind and wants to get stronger and not run away (more so in the anime) and then come the Cell Game...WTF... 'I don't really want to fight'. Is this really the same Gohan who was on Namek?

[TheGmGoken]

The main problem I have with Gohan's development in the story arc is his turn in the Cell Game. The whole arc he is sick of being left behind and wants to get stronger and not run away (more so in the anime) and then come the Cell Game...WTF... 'I don't really want to fight'. Is this really the same Gohan who was on Namek?

Yeah the random I'm a pacifist thing was just un needed. I would have prfer Cell just beating on Gohan then the speech Gohan made then Cell makes JR(s0. Next Cell put Gohan in the rings similar to Majin Vegeta attack on Goku. Once that happens everything plays out the same. Gohan turning SSJ2 breaks the rings.

[ABED]

It's not a helping hand that he needed, it's was someone to hold his hand and tell him what to do. Goku needed help plenty of times, but he didn't need someone telling him what to do and when. Gohan wouldn't have won that Kamehameha battle had Goku not told him what to do and when.

I accept that Gohan is young and the world being on his shoulders would be a heavy burden, but he acts like he didn't know what he was training for.

Not every character needs to be Goku but I do expect the hero to not be plagued with self doubt. Spidey has confidence issues but at least he eventually finds enough confidence to save the day without someone holding his hand.

Yes Goku is a confident fighter. Gohan is a confident book nerd. See the difference? One is a fighter. F-i-g-h-t-e-r. While one is a book nerd who is only 9 - 10 with the world in his hands. If you don't see how he would't have confidence in fighting with that much pressure at that age. Then you need to hang with more kids or watch more anime with kids(HELL EVEN ADULTS/TEENS) with someone having pressure.

DB isn't remotely the real world. There aren't 9 year old kids that have the power to destroy the solar system.

[Eternal Super Saiyan]

If I remember correctly, just moments before Gohan entered the Hyperbolic Time Chamber, he was anxious to show up and go with his other friends to a fight, when Chi-chi repeatedly forced Gohan to stay behind and do "homework" - so barely a year later, he loses his desire to fight suddenly? Me thinks Chi-chi mind psyched him.

DB isn't remotely the real world. There aren't 9 year old kids that have the power to destroy the solar system.

^ This guy does have a point.

[TheGmGoken]

I accept that Gohan is young and the world being on his shoulders would be a heavy burden, but he acts like he didn't know what he was training for.

He didn't know Goku was going to make him fight and use his rage. Once he found out Gohan most likely thought the same as Goku. The rage boast will beat Cell in 5 seconds. Not the whole Self blows up and the weight of the world rest on your hands with the fact you're the reason why your daddy died.

I don't need to hang out with anyone because DB isn't remotely the real world. There aren't 9 year old kids that have the power to destroy the solar system.

^ This guy does have a point.

The whole hanging with kids was meant to be serious. I thought you would take as when kids are under extreme pressure. Of course I would't have meant kids with solar system powers. That's just plain stupid.

[ABED]

When I was told I should hang out with kids who have a lot of pressure put on them because apparently they react the same way as Gohan, I was saying there's no analog to that situation. There's no way to know how a kid like Gohan would react because it's not the real world. We don't have supervillains and heroes that can blow up the world.

[mAcChaos]

The pacifism thing. Gohan always wanted to go fight, but not necessarily kill. That's the difference.

[ABED]

The pacifism thing. Gohan always wanted to go fight, but not necessarily kill. That's the difference.

You don't have to want to kill in order to do so to protect your loved ones. I assume he and Kuririn killed those two flunkies that destroyed Kami's ship. I don't think Goku wants to kill either, but does so when he feels the situations warrants it.

[DBZAOTA482]

I accept that Gohan is young and the world being on his shoulders would be a heavy burden, but he acts like he didn't know what he was training for.

He was training to protect others from Cell's clutch but he didn't think he was going to fight at the Cell Games. He basically spent the entire 10 days thinking his father would be the superior warrior.

[ABED]

I accept that Gohan is young and the world being on his shoulders would be a heavy burden, but he acts like he didn't know what he was training for.

He was training to protect others from Cell's clutch but he didn't think he was going to fight at the Cell Games. He basically spent the entire 10 days thinking his father would be the superior warrior.

I agree that Goku should've let him in on his plan, but it's ridiculous for him to tell Cell that, he has to know that it's not going to convince Cell of anything. In defense of Goku, he did tell Gohan he wanted Gohan to surpass him.

[RandomGuy96]

I love how Cell basically rofled at Gohan before beating the shit out of him and torturing his friends. One of the only times where I liked Perfect Cell.

[TheGmGoken]

I was saying there's no analog to that situation. There's no way to know how a kid like Gohan would react because it's not the real world. We don't have supervillains and heroes that can blow up the world.

You seem to ignore the fact that pressure is pressure. Kids can have heavy pressure. I hope you know that. The fact that you're still bringing up that DBZ is a shown is not needed. I'm talking about pressure. Pressure really hurts and tend to get in the way. Pressure mixed with emotions is even worst. So Gohan's(ignoring the sudden I don't like to fight) needing a helping hand is justified.

[ABED]

I was saying there's no analog to that situation. There's no way to know how a kid like Gohan would react because it's not the real world. We don't have supervillains and heroes that can blow up the world.

You seem to ignore the fact that pressure is pressure. Kids can have heavy pressure. I hope you know that. The fact that you're still bringing up that DBZ is a shown is not needed. I'm talking about pressure. Pressure really hurts and tend to get in the way. Pressure mixed with emotions is even worst. So Gohan's(ignoring the sudden I don't like to fight) needing a helping hand is justified.

He didn't need a helping hand when he ran head strong against an enemy he knew he couldn't beat but needed it when he was a seasoned warrior?

Yes, kids do have pressure, but no kid has that kind of pressure. I just don't buy a kid that smart and experienced in fighting would ever need that much pushing when he grew up years ago.

[TheGmGoken]

He didn't need a helping hand when he ran head strong against an enemy he knew he couldn't beat but needed it when he was a seasoned warrior?

The difference between that was

1. He was prepared. Goku randomly told Gohan to fight Cell. Gohan didn't know he was going to fight
2. He knew the plan. Which was to just fight
3. He wasn't no where near as much pressure as he had against Super Perfect Cell. Notice he was going to make Cell suffer before killing him. But once Cell came back stronger and the world was on his shoulders he panic
4. He wasn't the only one who can make a difference like he was against Cell

[ABED]

He didn't need a helping hand when he ran head strong against an enemy he knew he couldn't beat but needed it when he was a seasoned warrior?

The difference between that was

1. He was prepared. Goku randomly told Gohan to fight Cell. Gohan didn't know he was going to fight
2. He knew the plan. Which was to just fight
3. He wasn't no where near as much pressure as he had against Super Perfect Cell. Notice he was going to make Cell suffer before killing him. But once Cell came back stronger and the world was on his shoulders he panic
4. He wasn't the only one who can make a difference like he was against Cell

He was preparing to fight against Cell, yet he didn't entertain the possibility that he might have to fight? Then why train at all?
3. The world was on his shoulders before Cell returned.
4, So Gohan is willing to face death when the world isn't on his shoulders but when it is he cowers?

[IDreamtIWasABee]

The only parts of the Buu arc I like are Goku vs. Vegeta, Vegeta vs. Fat Buu, and Vegetto to end of Kid Buu.

The great part is that you can jump from Majin Vegeta's death to Vegeta's return and barely skip a beat. "Why's Boo skinny now?" "Uh...when he regenerated, he immediately ate everybody."

[TheGmGoken]

He was preparing to fight against Cell, yet he didn't entertain the possibility that he might have to fight? Then why train at all?

I don't know ask Akira Toriyama. Gohan wasn't expecting to fight. He thought his dad was going to kill Cell. Hence why he was shocked to see Goku give up and then choose Gohan to fight.

3. The world was on his shoulders before Cell returned.
4, So Gohan is willing to face death when the world isn't on his shoulders but when it is he cowers?

3. Yes but Cell wasn't powered up. Also you see how confident he was before his arm was broken? Once his arm broke and Cell said he was going to destroy the solar system then Gohan started to feel the pressure. It's like when you can kick the leader of a gang ass but once he shoots your arm off and then say he's going to kill your family if you don't kill him. You're under lots of pressure.

4. Yes. Yes he is.

[ABED]

Regardless of the pressure, he knows his mission, there's no other choice.

I know Gohan wasn't expecting, but well into the battle, he still seems confused.

Getting back to Trunks, I know giving the heart virus is important, but when he comes back, he doesn't feel like he adds much. Christ, he can't defeat the Cell Jr. he was fighting.