DBZ Abridged > Kai

[JEFFMAN219]

How can anybody think dragon ball z abridged is better then Kai smh!!!

[Kakarot88]

How can anybody think dragon ball z abridged is better then Kai

The performances in Kai are applauded by some and admonished by others. Just because Kai uses a more accurate dialogue does not axiomatically make it better than the Americanized version of Z, let alone a fan parody created by passionate fans. I am not alone in finding the acting in Kai to be stilted and phoned in. It lacks the passion that the Americanized Dragon Ball Z funimation dub had as well as the passion and diversified acting in Abridged. Kai also lacks the genuine moments of character surprise that the Japanese and American cast exuded in their first performances because both were learning about events for the first time as the story unfolded and they recorded in studio. This level of genuineness is absent from Kai, but all over Abridged with its reverisoning of lines and events, albeit for comedy.
Moreover I personally find Kai's hack job placement of the wonderful Kikuchi music atrocious, to the point of making Kai neigh unwatchable. Please play the same vibraslap song over and over and over again.
I hope that answers your question.

[dbboxkaifan]

Goku and Gohan have better VAs than FUNimation's Kai cast and the music isn't that piece of s*** on all releases nowadays, but rather musical pieces picked properly for their scenes.

But anyhow, I stopped liking both sometime ago. I'd still watch Kai in Japanese with Yamamoto's score any day, though.

[Morgil]

When i want to seriously watch through the series, i'll watch Kai. When i want to get a good laugh at some dumb jokes, I'll watch Abridged. Case closed.

[JEFFMAN219]

How can anybody think dragon ball z abridged is better then Kai

The performances in Kai are applauded by some and admonished by others. Just because Kai uses a more accurate dialogue does not axiomatically make it better than the Americanized version of Z, let alone a fan parody created by passionate fans. I am not alone in finding the acting in Kai to be stilted and phoned in. It lacks the passion that the Americanized Dragon Ball Z funimation dub had as well as the passion and diversified acting in Abridged. Kai also lacks the genuine moments of character surprise that the Japanese and American cast exuded in their first performances because both were learning about events for the first time as the story unfolded and they recorded in studio. This level of genuineness is absent from Kai, but all over Abridged with its reverisoning of lines and events, albeit for comedy.
Moreover I personally find Kai's hack job placement of the wonderful Kikuchi music atrocious, to the point of making Kai neigh unwatchable. Please play the same vibraslap song over and over and over again.
I hope that answers your question.

Lack passion? If you ask me the old dub lacked passion in my opinion.

[JEFFMAN219]

Goku and Gohan have better VAs than FUNimation's Kai cast and the music isn't that piece of s*** on all releases nowadays, but rather musical pieces picked properly for their scenes.

But anyhow, I stopped liking both sometime ago. I'd still watch Kai in Japanese with Yamamoto's score any day, though.

I disagree with you on that. Gokus funimations voice is great much better then the tfs one and the crappy ocean dub one.

[JEFFMAN219]

How can anybody think dragon ball z abridged is better then Kai

The performances in Kai are applauded by some and admonished by others. Just because Kai uses a more accurate dialogue does not axiomatically make it better than the Americanized version of Z, let alone a fan parody created by passionate fans. I am not alone in finding the acting in Kai to be stilted and phoned in. It lacks the passion that the Americanized Dragon Ball Z funimation dub had as well as the passion and diversified acting in Abridged. Kai also lacks the genuine moments of character surprise that the Japanese and American cast exuded in their first performances because both were learning about events for the first time as the story unfolded and they recorded in studio. This level of genuineness is absent from Kai, but all over Abridged with its reverisoning of lines and events, albeit for comedy.
Moreover I personally find Kai's hack job placement of the wonderful Kikuchi music atrocious, to the point of making Kai neigh unwatchable. Please play the same vibraslap song over and over and over again.
I hope that answers your question.

In the old dub it felt like they were just reading off of a script.

[Kakarot88]

How can anybody think dragon ball z abridged is better then Kai

The performances in Kai are applauded by some and admonished by others. Just because Kai uses a more accurate dialogue does not axiomatically make it better than the Americanized version of Z, let alone a fan parody created by passionate fans. I am not alone in finding the acting in Kai to be stilted and phoned in. It lacks the passion that the Americanized Dragon Ball Z funimation dub had as well as the passion and diversified acting in Abridged. Kai also lacks the genuine moments of character surprise that the Japanese and American cast exuded in their first performances because both were learning about events for the first time as the story unfolded and they recorded in studio. This level of genuineness is absent from Kai, but all over Abridged with its reverisoning of lines and events, albeit for comedy.
Moreover I personally find Kai's hack job placement of the wonderful Kikuchi music atrocious, to the point of making Kai neigh unwatchable. Please play the same vibraslap song over and over and over again.
I hope that answers your question.

Lack passion? If you ask me the old dub lacked passion in my opinion.

And that's what makes variety great! Different strokes for different folks.

[Mewzard]

How can anybody think dragon ball z abridged is better then Kai

The performances in Kai are applauded by some and admonished by others. Just because Kai uses a more accurate dialogue does not axiomatically make it better than the Americanized version of Z, let alone a fan parody created by passionate fans. I am not alone in finding the acting in Kai to be stilted and phoned in. It lacks the passion that the Americanized Dragon Ball Z funimation dub had as well as the passion and diversified acting in Abridged. Kai also lacks the genuine moments of character surprise that the Japanese and American cast exuded in their first performances because both were learning about events for the first time as the story unfolded and they recorded in studio. This level of genuineness is absent from Kai, but all over Abridged with its reverisoning of lines and events, albeit for comedy.
Moreover I personally find Kai's hack job placement of the wonderful Kikuchi music atrocious, to the point of making Kai neigh unwatchable. Please play the same vibraslap song over and over and over again.
I hope that answers your question.

You're right, just having more accurate dialog doesn't make it instantly better.

But add on the massively better voice acting, better voice direction, etc...it kinda adds up.

Kai has so much more passion than Z ever did. It went from some job for some newbie voice actors to a labor of love for the now experienced voice actors. They went from just making up a script and going with it to trying to make sound decisions and trying to make the product as good as they can. Even Sean Schemmel went out of his way to fix some things he cared about, like pronouncing Kaio-Ken right, and adding Son Goku, despite it not being in the script.

The man himself wouldn't even agree with your opinion as he was critical of his own past performance. He recognizes that he's grown as an actor since then.

The problem with the Z dub is that it DIDN'T sound genuine. The acting was so subpar, the voices didn't sound all that genuine at all, it sounded like people reading a script. Whereas with the Kai dub I can believe it for the most part, it sounds like these characters are the characters, not people acting a role.

[The Monkey King]

I'll agree that abridged Gohan's voice is better than Kai Gohan's voice hands down.

[Kakarot88]

The man himself wouldn't even agree with your opinion as he was critical of his own past performance.

Why would his opinion in any way influence mine? If I like Die Hard more than Die Hard with a Vengeance but Bruce Willis thinks Die Hard with a Vengeance is the best of the franchise, so what? If George Lucas were to say that The Empire Strikes Back was not the best of the Star Wars franchise, so what? If I like it best then that's what I like. Truth be known, good for you, bad for me, Sean Schemmel does not sound like the old high pitched goofy Goku he used to portray. Rather, Sean Schemmel sounds more fatherly and heroic. I'm not a fan, Goku is not fatherly and is circumstantially heroic. Sure Sean Schemmel's performance will never be in league with Masako Nozawa, but at least when he was green there was a genuineness that he too would bring to the table, which no longer comes across.

You need to understand something, I am neither saying you are right or wrong in your opinion. You can and should have one, but don't act like your opinion is an objective fact that can be bolstered by more opinion. A policy choice supported by mass approval is still not an objective sound fact, it is just a group wide agreement. I do not espouse to your beliefs but that does not make me wrong, it means we disagree.

You have your reasons and I have mine. Please support your own views without attacking others.

[Mewzard]

...what? I never attacked you or your views. I was stating my own. The bit about Schemmel's own view is factual, he's talked about it before.

The problem with what you're saying about it sounding genuine in Z is that it doesn't. It doesn't sound genuine because the acting doesn't sound natural, it sounds blatantly like someone's reading a script (someone who's not particularly experienced at it). It's not their fault, it was their first job and many of them weren't trained to be actors, they had to learn on the fly.

The reason you want experienced actors is that they learn how to give a performance naturally (well, if they become good actors at least). They rarely sounded natural at all in the Z days, vs now with Kai, where they give believable performances as the characters.

Also, what are you talking about, "fatherly and heroic"? That's what he sounded like in Z (sounded like and written like to be honest). Kai is where he's finally sounding like Goku. Lovable and goofy in light hearted moments, strong and excited in fights, infuriated when someone he cares for dies.

Why do you feel this way about Z vs Kai? Do you think inexperienced actors and voice directors working from a script that was pretty much made up during the early days (and with little to no knowledge of the series) really understand the characters more than those same people with experience and an accurate script who are now actively enjoying the material themselves after years working on it?

This isn't meant to be insulting (and that's not sarcasm, if it comes off as such, I'm honestly sorry, just surprised), I'm actively curious. Even as a fan of the Z dub for its entire Toonami Run and for a while afterwards, I'm having trouble seeing where you're coming from.

Maybe if you go more into depth with your views, maybe I'll at least be able to understand it better. Understanding both sides of an argument at least makes it a more informed one.

[Kakarot88]

Why do you feel this way about Z vs Kai? Do you think inexperienced actors and voice directors working from a script that was pretty much made up during the early days (and with little to no knowledge of the series) really understand the characters more than those same people with experience and an accurate script who are now actively enjoying the material themselves after years working on it?

This isn't meant to be insulting (and that's not sarcasm, if it comes off as such, I'm honestly sorry, just surprised), I'm actively curious. Even as a fan of the Z dub for its entire Toonami Run and for a while afterwards, I'm having trouble seeing where you're coming from.

Maybe if you go more into depth with your views, maybe I'll at least be able to understand it better. Understanding both sides of an argument at least makes it a more informed one.

That is it in a nutshell. I think that the American cast is overreaching, in the original Americanized dub they acted like average joes with absurd power. In the manga and the anime the characters act just like that, that their power and absurd situations is status quo. In Kai there is this atmosphere of making things grander than they are. The acting ranges from too reserved to too over the top with no build up.

Here's the deal, Chris Sabat and Sean Schemmel are obviously hard workers and trying to make Kai a quality product. In that effort I find all of their acting (just about) to fall short of their earlier performances by pigeonholing how their characters act. Vegeta feels fear, anguish, anxiety, anger. Not just angry or frustrated. Kai's Vegeta lack depth. Same with Goku, and Schemmel even says that Goku has two reactions "happy or sad" and that Goku is not very deep. Yeah, true Goku is not as deep as maybe other characters, but he does ahve a range and builds to moments. When Sean Schemmel goes in Kai (while turning SS1) "You heartless Bastard!" It just was not as passionate, he just sounded mad, not desperate and filled with rage. In Z you hear his voice begin growing angrier and desperate, he just saw is BEST friend die, Schemmel nails it when he does the inncorrect lines of "I woooon't let yooooou get AWAY with THIS!" I mean damn it was so much better. Sure other lines make me cringe "I'm the herp derp of the universe..." and yes Kai is leaps and bounds better in that scene, but on a whole I find the improved lines do not overcome the overall odd deliveries, which keep the characters 2 dimensional.

More specifically, Vegeta going SS1 in front of Gero was so terrible in Kai, no build up, no bad assery, and the lines were neigh identical. But his delivery lacked the egotism that is Vegeta. Sabat sounds like he is going for a Ryo Horikawa delivery, but ONLY Ryo Horikawa can pull that off. I have watched many a dub and delivery as well as other actors, and no one can do the Vegeta that Horikawa does excpet fpr Horikawa, but Vegeta is open to more than just that interpretation. Many fans were jarred at first when Bryan Drummond did his take on Vegeta but a lot to this day say it worked. Sabat's original Vegeta was a form of Vegeta that the manga as I read it exudes, what he does now is so reserved and akward it just makes me yawn. I can understand not being over the top but it still is no good.

Which brings me to Kaio-sama no character in the dub needed a make over more (IMO) than Sean Schemmel's Kaio which he did based on the Ocean group's orginal portrayal. What's Kaio like in Kai, same performance except now with longer screams and more jarring character interactions. Fail. At least in Z Schemmel mad Kaio quirky, now Kaio is just "that guy" at the party who showed up and is really loud.

It also baffles me that Chris Ayers is so lauded over. He ain't Ryusei Nakao and the lines aren't that tight "once again my hopes of imortality are dashed away at the shores of your incompetence." One, Toriyama never wrote like that, two it is said so fast that it feels like Speed Racer, three he is just NOT intimidating; granny Freeza compels more fear than that clown, oh and four, he is NOT Ryusei Nakao and the whole team failed to make Freeza like that Freeza, at least Linda Young made a comepling "evil dude with gender issues" rather than Ayers portrayal which is in my opinion a sub par mimic performance of a legendary actor. They missed out the condescending politeness that made the Japanese portrayal historic. I am honestly happy that the majority of fans are beyond jubilant over this new Freeza, but I for one find it a poor (and even poorer than Linda Young) portrayal because by trying to achieve the greatness of Ryusei Nakao they failed to achieve anything because Ayers does not make that storyline compelling based on his delivery and overall voice. Here's an outside persepctive: I'm getting my fiance into the series, well she's watching it for me, but I put on Kai for part of the Ginyu arc cuz it would be quicker. I figured I'd truck on through to the Ginyu arc, and put back in the other redubbed stuff after the Ocean Group (she didn't want to watch in Japanese). About half an episode in with Ayers she's like wait what's up with the main villain? And I'm like yea, it's a different take, it's trying to be more like the Japanese version. She's like ok well let's watch some like that, we do and I go back to Ayers. She starts laughing and is like that's not intimidating that terrible! I was like wait you like the granny version better? She was like yeah, even the girly guy version is more of a bad ass. Does that make us right? No, it just means different strokes for different folks, and I can appreciate your opinion but in no way agree with it.

I've talked about this on multiple threads, so that's all I'm gonna go into for now, but if your interested in more clip comparisons, etc. just go through some of my other posts.

Again, I want to make clear: I am not hating on your opinion or saying I am right, I am only saying my opinion and giving reasons for it. Opinions are not facts, if your opinion differs, great, but you cannot prove your opinion, because it is an opinion you can only explain an opinion.

[El Diabeetus]

Freeza, I cannot agree on. Toriyama may not have written Freeza that exact way in the Japanese version. Freeza is a wordy, arrogant bastard that is quick to irritate. But, Japanese has it's own flair to it in Freeza's dialouge (Keigo/Polite Language). So, I just see the Kai dialouge as trying to match that flair (perhaps it's a tad exaggerated, but I'd prefer they'd over adapt than not at all i.e. like the Z dub.) I hope Linda Young is never near Freeza again (she has many roles she's good at, Freeza is not one of them). I hear the total opposite, I can't take Linda Young's Freeza seriously, even when her Freeza has had accurate dialouge i.e. Burst Limit. I wouldn't call Ayres' Freeza a copy of Nakao's or even a bad copy of it. He's used the exact same voice he uses for Freeza in other anime. I guess we just hear different things, I hope to never listen to the old dub again. It's terrible, it only got tolerable around Buu and the Saiyan arc redub. Even then, still uses the terribly re-written dialouge.

Actually in the case of Goku transforming, I hear the opposite again. The acting's terrible the first time around with awkward grunting. Ironically the dialouge for Goku's more accurate in Z for that scene. He did say something more along the lines of 'You won't get with this' and 'you monster'. This is all opinion based of course. But, DBZ does not need to be over the top all of the time. You obviously are allowed to have your own opinion. However, I can't wrap my head around why someone would prefer the bastardized dub with terrible acting to a more accurate one with better acting, other than nostalgia. Of course acting is all subjective, but all I hear is vocal/audio diarrhea when I listen to the 'Season 3' Z dub, which is what the past few examples fall under. I'm just confused as to how the Z attempt sounds anywhere near believable.

Kaioh I won't argue, since it's awful in either dub and only gets one side of the character.

That's not to say Kai doesn't have it's problems. In my opinion still have Goku sounding too smart and haven't corrected enough in regards to pronunciations/attacks (started using a majority of the original names and then stopped in later episodes, doesn't make sense, fuck Tri-beam). Say-yan will always be wrong. There's no justification for it other than nostalgia/'it's what I'm used to'. It's based on a Japanese word, should be pronounced like it.

[ABED]

How can anybody think dragon ball z abridged is better then Kai

The performances in Kai are applauded by some and admonished by others. Just because Kai uses a more accurate dialogue does not axiomatically make it better than the Americanized version of Z, let alone a fan parody created by passionate fans. I am not alone in finding the acting in Kai to be stilted and phoned in. It lacks the passion that the Americanized Dragon Ball Z funimation dub had as well as the passion and diversified acting in Abridged. Kai also lacks the genuine moments of character surprise that the Japanese and American cast exuded in their first performances because both were learning about events for the first time as the story unfolded and they recorded in studio. This level of genuineness is absent from Kai, but all over Abridged with its reverisoning of lines and events, albeit for comedy.
Moreover I personally find Kai's hack job placement of the wonderful Kikuchi music atrocious, to the point of making Kai neigh unwatchable. Please play the same vibraslap song over and over and over again.
I hope that answers your question.

You are wrong on all counts. The acting isn't stilted or phoned in at all, but even so I'll take phoned in performances by seasoned actors to the terrible performances we got in the late 90s to early 00s. I'd put money on the fact that those that agree with you were fans of the old dub and have nostalgia goggles. The accurate dialog puts it many steps above the garbage we got before. I'll also take bad music placement (which is a criticism that I don't think is entirely fair) over the god awfulness of the Faulconer score.

You brought up Sabat. His performance during Vegeta's death in Kai leaves his previous efforts in the dust.

When Sean Schemmel goes in Kai (while turning SS1) "You heartless Bastard!" It just was not as passionate, he just sounded mad, not desperate and filled with rage. In Z you hear his voice begin growing angrier and desperate, he just saw is BEST friend die, Schemmel nails it when he does the inncorrect lines of "I woooon't let yooooou get AWAY with THIS!" I mean damn it was so much better.

This answer sounds like someone desperate to make it true. You are reaching, and so despearately want Z's dub to be better. I don't hear what you are hearing AT ALL. Write all the flowery "desperate and filled with rage" you want, it just comes off as a superficial attempt to knock something for not being the way you remember it. I hear passion, I hear rage, I hear talent from Schemmel.

granny Freeza compels more fear than that clown

Nope, just nope.

Which viberslap song are you talking about?

[TheGmGoken]

In Z you hear his voice begin growing angrier and desperate,

Honestly. Goku turning SSJ for the first time was my least favorite scene on ENG Z. Maybe I was to use to the versions I heard or I expected good voice acting(Yes I cared for voices as a Kid). But Goku sounded so phony and fake there that I change the channel to either Disney or Nick once Goku transformed(it was the end of the ep anyways). Honestly it dissapointed the shit of of me. Everyone at school talking about Goku turned to a beast and that the scene was epic. I wasn't impressed. I'm not even a Funi dub hate(I suggest people to watch Funi Dub of Z if they're casuals. I do tell them Kai is more uncut though). I just felt that scene was build up(I liked the music there honestly) greatly in the original dub but Goku voice ruined it. Goku didn't sound like angry(Almost all dubs) or lost of words(The original audio) but instead like he was about to cry(As if he was Gohan) or was just going like Freeza killed him. I don't see the desperation in his voice nor the anger. Just a crybaby. Just my take on it. I felt even the "HOPE OF THE UNIVERSE! I AM SUPERMAN!" speech was better than that. Not to mention that half ass scream Sean S. did. That didn't help.

[ABED]

I'll take abridged Freeza over Young any day.

[qjz123]

How can anybody think dragon ball z abridged is better then Kai

The performances in Kai are applauded by some and admonished by others. Just because Kai uses a more accurate dialogue does not axiomatically make it better than the Americanized version of Z, let alone a fan parody created by passionate fans. I am not alone in finding the acting in Kai to be stilted and phoned in. It lacks the passion that the Americanized Dragon Ball Z funimation dub had as well as the passion and diversified acting in Abridged. Kai also lacks the genuine moments of character surprise that the Japanese and American cast exuded in their first performances because both were learning about events for the first time as the story unfolded and they recorded in studio. This level of genuineness is absent from Kai, but all over Abridged with its reverisoning of lines and events, albeit for comedy.
Moreover I personally find Kai's hack job placement of the wonderful Kikuchi music atrocious, to the point of making Kai neigh unwatchable. Please play the same vibraslap song over and over and over again.
I hope that answers your question.

Lol how anyone can think Funimation's original Dbz dub had more passion than Kai for any reason other than Nostalgia is delusional. Take this scene for example http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBGrGPhGZBw nothing in the Z version is believable it sounds so amateurish that it's almost painful to listen to. In the Kai version you hear the pain and sorrow in Chris Sabat's adult Vegeta and even more so in Laura Bailey's kid Vegeta.

[Kakarot88]

Haha I'm glad all of your opinions are "facts." Especially you Abed. To each his own. I'll enjoy my action cartoon in English and my action anime in Japanese, y'all can enjoy whatever Kai is, not hate on my end, I just find Kai boring.

Abed the vibraslap: watch anything with a transformation by a villain and the scenes where Dr. Gero is fleeing, etc. just to name a few...I thought you were a fan of Kai? You should know these things.

[El Diabeetus]

Haha I'm glad all of your opinions are "facts." Especially you Abed. To each his own. I'll enjoy my action cartoon in English and my action anime in Japanese, y'all can enjoy whatever Kai is, not hate on my end, I just find Kai boring.

Abed the vibraslap: watch anything with a transformation by a villain and the scenes where Dr. Gero is fleeing, etc. just to name a few...I thought you were a fan of Kai? You should know these things.

I never claimed anything to be fact other than Say-yan is an incorrect pronunciation, which is a fact. Which was at the end of the criticisms of things Kai still did wrong and that Z had more accurate dialouge for Goku in the Super Saiyan transformation. The rest were my opinions.