DBZ Abridged > Kai

[Kakarot88]

So I wanted to create a topic and get people's thoughts on what they think of Kai's acting versus DBZ Abridged.

Granted one is supposed to be a truer to the manga piece and the other a comedy, but at the end of the day I personally feel that the Abridged series is leaps and bounds better than Kai in terms of performance. Every actor for the Abridged series really brings an A+ performance that exudes Z, which on a whole I find totally lacking in a lot of the monotone excuse me "reserved" performances of Kai and wanted to know if anyone shared my feelings or had any other thoughts on the topic.

Sure this can turn this into a "Hey, let's bash the original Funimation dub of Z," which unfortunately a lot of threads turn into, but I'd really like to facilitate a conversation where we can all discuss our appreciation for each series and their respective performances.

For me MasakoX is the BEST English voice of Gohan I have ever heard and enjoy all of his performances as well as the series take on Kuririn's voice (although I do prefer Sonny Strait for English dubs). Long and short of it is I find the Team Four Star Cast is incredible and a great tribute to Z and what an abridged series of the anime could have been (albeit a parody).

[kei17]

I never compare an official dub with a fanmade parody, which is pointless and disrespectful.

[Kakarot88]

I never compare an official dub with a fanmade parody, which is pointless and disrespectful.

Why is it pointless and disrespectful if I like the acting of one over the other? Is it pointless and disrespectful for those fans who prefer the official dubs of China or the US over the original Japanese?

In my eyes we have a wonderful product made by fans for fans and the fact that it is a parody should in no way lessen some of their superior talent. If anything I would go so far as to say having a view that a parody work intrinsically makes it not as worthy of praise or criticism as an official work seems quite close minded and regrettably disrespectful of the hard work of those who make said parody.

Being official in no way makes their efforts greater or lesser it simply means they have the license to profit from their acting.

[andrewtuell1991]

I never understood the appeal of DBZA. If I wanted dub bashing I'd read penguintruth's comments. The voices are mostly stiff imitations of either the Ocean or Funi VAs and any voice that isn't a parody is mostly a stock stereotype voice that a lot of people could pull off with little effort. The "humor" is derived from either the old dubs' shortcomings or slight exaggeration of the characters. Goku's an idiot and a bad father, Gohan's mature for his age, Kuririn gets side-swiped a lot, Vegeta's the only one who thinks he's hot shit, etc. etc. It's too on-the-nose for me.

And I really don't understand the fascination with MasakoX's Goku or Gohan. They start out as rather stiff imitations of Kelamis and Henderson and quickly became their own thing which are admittedly pretty good... for a parody. To people claiming he should voice them in something official or that he's better than the official English VAs... no, just no. Granted I think that neither Goku nor Gohan have a truly out-of-the-park English VA (Kelamis and Schemmel were only ever been average at best, Henderson was generic for both, Nadolny was soulless, and Clinkenbeard was a bit too spritely for Gohan) but come on, it's a parody voice for crying out loud. They would never fit too any official capacity. This video is pretty much proof of that.

On to Kai, it could've been a lot better. It was basically a Frankenstein of a show that was already a butchered hack-job to begin with. Despite claiming to be closer to the manga, it cut out entire pages at the beginning, left in large globs of filler and started from the middle instead of the beginning. Then there's the music scandal.

The good thing about Kai though is it give Funimation and many other dubbing companies a second chance to do things right this time, although the two language tracks that got it right the first time, Japanese and Latin America Spanish, went down in quality. Funny how those things work out huh?

Though as better as the Funi dub was, it could've been better still. I think they played it too safe with the voices and some of the scripting. It's like they were trying to appeal to both the purists who wanted a more accurate dub and fans of the old Toonami dub. For those who complain about the recasting, I think they should've recasted more: Chichi, Reacoom, Tenshinhan, 16, Oolong, Gyumao, Roshi, Future Trunks, Jheese, Cell, Yamucha, Kaio, Piccolo, and Goku. Yes Schemmel has improved since his Season 3 performance, as if that's such a huge hurdle to jump over, but in my honest opinion he's still just as much of a miscast for Goku as much as Kirby Morrow, only too deep-voiced and forced instead of too gentle and suave.

[KentalSSJ6]

To be honest, id have no problem at all if Abridged's Vegeta and Freeza voices were in the Funimation dubs. Both were done extremely well and had some legitimately good and fitting lines.

[DragonBalllKaiHD]

Should I join in and say Peter Kelamis is better than MasakoX? Apple and orange, sir. Z Kai is an official while TFS is a parody. It's fine if you compare Kai with Z, but not TFS. The performances of Z Kai was by their years of experiences, and it helps having an accurate script and a good direction. They were meant to be closer to the original Japanese. Their performances with an accurate script are a selling point for Z Kai. And Schemmel and Sabat have said it several times- it was voice actors/actresses' lack of experience with a bad direction that changed the original intent of Dragon Ball Z. With Kai being made, it was their chance to show what they were made of. They worked really hard not to let the fans down. What you just said showed no appreciation for all the hard work they had put forth on Z Kai.

Needless to say, DBZ Abridged was made before Kai had found its way here. Their intention was, of course, to show what DBZ could have been if they had a better direction and performances, but that becomes irrelevant now thanks to FUNimation's licensing of Kai.

[Kakarot88]

Kai, it could've been a lot better. It was basically a Frankenstein of a show that was already a butchered hack-job to begin with. Despite claiming to be closer to the manga, it cut out entire pages at the beginning, left in large globs of filler and started from the middle instead of the beginning. Then there's the music scandal.

...

Though as better as the Funi dub was, it could've been better still. I think they played it too safe with the voices and some of the scripting. It's like they were trying to appeal to both the purists who wanted a more accurate dub and fans of the old Toonami dub. For those who complain about the recasting, I think they should've recasted more: Chichi, Reacoom, Tenshinhan, 16, Oolong, Gyumao, Roshi, Future Trunks, Jheese, Cell, Yamucha, Kaio, Piccolo, and Goku. Yes Schemmel has improved since his Season 3 performance, as if that's such a huge hurdle to jump over, but in my honest opinion he's still just as much of a miscast for Goku as much as Kirby Morrow, only too deep-voiced and forced instead of too gentle and suave.

ALL great points! I don't agree with you on everything but I feel the same about a lot of Schemmel's scenes in Kai...his voice just sounds too low and not Gokuy enough. Sure he was stiff in Z but there was a certain light heartedness and more Goku-esque feel despite the words not being in character. It sounded like Goku to me even though it was sometimes stuff Goku would never say.

TFS is not the end all be all but I think the crew is a step in the right direction as opposed to Kai which got the right verbage down but fell short in tone and overall delivery. And I see what you are saying about trying to please too many and coming up short and it's no wonder when one considers the amount of recasts and lack thereof with many old deliveries being traded in when it did not necessarily need to be so. Instead this "fresh product" feels less like something new and more like an amalgamation of shortcomings.

In truth, I tried really hard to like it and I feel like many people want so desperately to have an accurate dub that they convince themselves it is good rather than objectively seeing it for the (as you call it) "Frankenstein of a show" that it really is.

I may not 100% agree with you but can def see your points.

What you just said showed no appreciation for all the hard work they had put forth on Z Kai.

You are right, I do not think Kai is well acted (unlike the majority of users on this forum). I think Kai was a step backwards in terms of the feel of Z. It gets the lines down as in content but fails in delivery. In contrast the actors for Abridged do a great job in delivery albeit even if it is mostly humor based.

Moving away from my own feelings: aside from hard work what else do you like about Kai? dislike? Think is better than or equal to TFS's hard fan made work? All opinions are welcome and none need to be necessarily agreed with just cordially discussed.

Although they work hard, that effort does not influence my ability to objectively look at the end product and realize that hard work still fell short.

[Fulicer]

I see nothing wrong with the Kai performances overall. To me they sound more natural, and in many scenes there's plenty of emotion. Vegeta vs 18 fight comes to mind, especially when Vegeta gets his arm broken. Same with Goku when he was drowning against Freeza, his SSJ transformation, etc.

In regards to Abridged, it's a parody so not all of the voices are as "smooth" as Kai's. Abridged Vegeta seems like an imitation of Sabat's, and their Piccolo is just too forced for a more serious dub. Same goes for Krillin. Freeza is the best voice of the bunch, and would work for a non-parody most likely. Don't get me wrong; I like abridged and the voice acting is great for a fandub of a parody.

At the end of the day, you're comparing professionals against fans that do this for free. The former group has years of experience and have worked on many shows. They're better to my ears.

[Kakarot88]

I see nothing wrong with the Kai performances overall. To me they sound more natural, and in many scenes there's plenty of emotion. Vegeta vs 18 fight comes to mind, especially when Vegeta gets his arm broken. Same with Goku when he was drowning against Freeza, his SSJ transformation, etc.

In regards to Abridged, it's a parody so not all of the voices are as "smooth" as Kai's. Abridged Vegeta seems like an imitation of Sabat's, and their Piccolo is just too forced for a more serious dub. Same goes for Krillin. Freeza is the best voice of the bunch, and would work for a non-parody most likely. Don't get me wrong; I like abridged and the voice acting is great for a fandub of a parody.

At the end of the day, you're comparing professionals against fans that do this for free. The former group has years of experience and have worked on many shows. They're better to my ears.

Awesome that was a well reasoned valid opinion, I personally don't agree but can respect your point of view. The whole thing for me is that Kai just does not feel as light hearted as Dragon Ball actually is, I find it takes itself too seriously.

[Fulicer]

Awesome that was a well reasoned valid opinion, I personally don't agree but can respect your point of view. The whole thing for me is that Kai just does not feel as light hearted as Dragon Ball actually is, I find it takes itself too seriously.

If you prefer a more light hearted (maybe goofier?) dub then yeah the Z dub and Abridged are more up your alley. It comes down to personal preference.

[Kakarot88]

Awesome that was a well reasoned valid opinion, I personally don't agree but can respect your point of view. The whole thing for me is that Kai just does not feel as light hearted as Dragon Ball actually is, I find it takes itself too seriously.

If you prefer a more light hearted (maybe goofier?) dub then yeah the Z dub and Abridged are more up your alley. It comes down to personal preference.

I don't know if I'd go so far as to say "goofy" lol as I had diff preferences per arc and episode. I prefer the japanese original broadcast from the begining (meaning Dragon Ball era before Z) through some parts of Namek, but prefer the US broadcast (meaning the newer orange brick and not pioneer/ocean dub) on a whole (even with terrible lines I just leave the subtitles on lol) for some of the remainder of the series and switch back and forth. I mean the reason for my avatar with me and Nozawa is cuz she's my fav Goku. At the same time Sean is my other fav but I don't like his performance in Kai, he seems too much like a man and not a boy who looks like a man ya know? He's too I dunno put together I don't know what it is it''s just like he's trying to hard and not going with the flow like Goku does. He had virtually the same lines when he was encouraging Gohan but I thought his Kai performance fell short of Goku.

When I read Dragon ball I get the sense of irony, that I as the reader freak out while these joker are like "awesome let's fight," and that same light heartedness in an intense situation is not present to me in Kai. I mean when the shit hits the fan in Z yeah it gets intense but it builds to that point ya know? And I feel like Kai just stay serious rather than going through waves. But that's me. I think the piccolo and gotenks dichotemy highlights that feel the best and I have high hopes for Kai with that

[Gyt Kaliba]

Honestly, I've never really seen the point in comparing the two either.

Abridged is awesome at what it does, there's no denying that - but Kai, the English dub anyway, was the chance to finally do the series properly over here in the US, and a chance FUNi took and ran with to everyone's enjoyment. If they had done a 'gag dub' with it like what Abridged is, no matter how good it is, people would have been up in arms just like they are over Z's dub, because it's 'not accurate'. But when a group of fans come together and do a joke dub, a hilarious one at that, then there is no outcry because it's not official, it's just a fan thing. The two situations just can't be compared really, IMO.

[Mewzard]

I have so many problems with this whole thing I don't know where to begin.

First off, let me begin by saying I love DBZ Abridged. I started watching it with the 2 movies pre-TFS, and followed it every step of the way. Hell, I started with Yu-Gi-Oh@ Abridged really early on, after only a few episodes were out, and got into TFS' pre-DBZ Abrdiged series'. I like their voice work, and find it fitting for their choice of parody.

That said, that's just it: They work for the parody. They likely could do some good serious dub work, but I'm going with what I got. Amazing voice work for what started as fans making parodies of stuff they like. That said, I do prefer Kai to Abridged in terms of my voice cast. Not as offense, but when I watch the series seriously...I watch Kai. When I want an entertaining experience with some amusing parody, I watch Abridged. I enjoy both, but for different reasons.

Kai's dub is what we needed, and really what we deserved to get in the first place. Coming as a person who grew up with the old dubs and enjoyed them for many years...they weren't good. They were mediocre on their best days. Funi's dub certainly suffered from bad scripting, and poor voice direction/acting from inexperienced people, all with rather inappropriate music to the series. Kai fixed that stuff. The actors and directors went from new people, to Veterans of more than 10 years experience.

Those who remained did their jobs far better than before (to cite your example of Schemmel, his acting chops are far beyond anything we saw of the series before it, with a character voice that really works. We heard hints of it, but we see it given right in action, likely with the help of good direction. When his Goku is happy, you can feel that child-like delight in his upbeat, excited voice. When he's mad, you can hear the voice change appropriately, as it grows rougher, and harsher. It's the Goku voice I knew he could do, and he did it. His old performance isn't a drop in the bucket of quality that his Kai performance is). Sabat, meanwhile, reigned in both Vegeta and Piccolo, letting Piccolo be closer to his natural voice, while Vegeta, while maintaining the important bits of the voice, pulled back on the gruff, letting him deliver some amazing lines rather nicely.

The new voice actors brought in some new life to old roles. Especially Chris Ayres as Freeza. If ever there was a breakout new performance, this was it. The man captured all the important aspects of Freeza's character, helped by the great dialog, appropriate music (well, when we had consistent audio...but that's not Funi's fault), and as with any performance, good direction to make sure the right delivery was given.

The writing can't be emphasized enough as to why Kai is so good. Sure, the occasional dub line slipped in from the home release, and occasionally, an odd line had an issue (Namekians and genders came to mind), but given the rush to have both a functioning quality dub, and also something ready for a demanding TV schedule (one that made Sabat go back to work early despite doctors orders' and forced Schemmel to do the last few episodes of the Cell Saga while rather sick), they did an impressive job. The old DBZ script, going back, felt insulting to the intelligence of the fans at times, something I don't really find with Kai.

Sorry this does tie back to Z's old English dub, but it has to. Z's old English dub was what got many of us here into the series, and for someone at my age, when I got into Z, I just accepted what I got. After growing used to the voice change, I didn't really question it until after DBZ ended on Toonami. At the time, I accepted it because that's the best I thought it was. Going back to the Japanese version (and later Kai)...I found that I wanted more from Z, that we should have gotten more...and Kai gave it.

So no, Kai>DBZ Abridged for me.

That said, DBZ Abridged>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Z nowadays.

DBZ Abridged is close to my love of Kai though, and I enjoy it. I enjoyed everything those wonderful guys did, and told them as much when I've spoken to some of them (have talked to KaiserNeko, MasakoX, and LittleKuriboh before, long ago).

My preference of Kai isn't an insult, the closeness of it to a dub I greatly cherish is a high compliment.

Now, all we need is for Funi to put out a DBZ Abridged DVD set, then it shall go next to my Kai sets, lol.

[KaiserNeko]

Uh, huh.

Well, um... I think Kai's dub is remarkably better, in every single way from top to bottom, than the Z dub.

I think we're a parody made by a bunch of amateur voice actors (though some of us are now professionals) and while we do try and often capture DragonBall's spirit, we are still lampooning the show more often than not. Even if you did compare them, Kai's dub is still obviously a professional production all around and, in my opinion, is respectfully better in terms of acting. While I love the cast of our show and I do believe many of them are fit for professional careers in the field, we still cannot compare to seasoned vets like Sabat, Strait, Huber, Ayres, etc. who have been doing this since we were in high school.

That being said? I understand why some people prefer Masako for Goku. In some ways, I do too, but not as a whole. He's never gotten the opportunity to really play him as the character Son Goku really is, with a strict director and the time one would need to get that performance out of him. There's no saying that he WOULD be the right fit for a professional dub either. But I'd be lying if I said I don't love him as Goku and I'm exceptionally happy he's in our show. I would never recommend him for a professional take on GOHAN, though, even if I find his performance in our show to often be adorable.

Also, Andrew: We don't do that much dub bashing. I mean, at all. Yeah, we make some jokes, but it's usually us having fun with something we grew up with and making call backs. We also try not to make very many at all, though recently we have had some fun with classic material from the Android Saga. And sure, some of our characters can also be on the nose, but that's our personal style of humor. Flanderization and playing with the end result. I understand your perspective, but it's just the manner of which we approach the series and, luckily for us, people seem to enjoy our angle. I understand that you don't and don't hold it against you.

I do have to say, though, while we did start out with stiff imitations, all of the actors involved in our series have done a lot to make the characters their own and have improved immensely over the last five years. I speak not as their director, but as someone who has been intently fascinated with voice acting as a whole and the industry for over 10 years. I'm immensely proud of them all and, while I'll admit none of them are perfect, their performances now are lightyears ahead of what we were giving in Season 1, which I believe you're basing most of your opinion off of.

As for that video you linked... eagh, that was awful. Sit Masako down with me and I'll give you a much, much better performance as Goku from him. Everyone who uses Masako besides us keeps having him go deep when, really, he's not fit for that. Neither is Goku. Seriously, compare anything from Season 2 to that clip and you'll already notice his performance is leagues better and more in line with Son's character than... that.

Anyway, my point is? We're having a lot of fun with the series and some of the actors involved in our version, I personally believe (and have been proven on a few occasions) could very well make it in the industry. That being said? I would not compare our take on the characters to the professional dub.

[Metalwario64]

I'm a bit perplexed by all of the people who treat Abridged like an official "dub". It's a parody, and the characters are all caricatures of themselves, and anyone thinking it's the most accurate representation of the Japanese version are deluding themselves. I've seriously seen people say they only watch Abridged because "it's the closest to the manga".

It's funny, and the acting is good for a parody, but the characters only capture whatever exaggeration the script writes the characters with. MasakoX is good at delivering the Homer Simpsonized Goku, but anyone saying the Abridged script of the character captures Goku accurately, then you are greatly underestimating Goku's intelligence and are missing the point of the parody, which exaggerates Goku's ignorance and rank stupidity.

Also, I've now seen people saying MasakoX's Gohan is the best... His Goku is good for a parody (but as said before, is mostly a Kelamis imitation. I much prefer Kelamis over all.), but his Gohan falls into one of the same traps Nadolny's does: it sounds nothing like a real kid. In this case, it's clearly an adult pitching his voice up to sound like a kid. It works for Abridged, but would never pass in a real dub.

[Flame Dragon]

I believe Masako would do a fine job as official Goku.

However, in no way in hell the Kai dub is inferior to that atrocity of the Z Dub.

English is not my first language, as such, i had a bit of an hard time at gauging how bad a performance is at first, when i started watching English dubbed stuff.
That means unless it's really ridiculous stuff, like "Tommy Wiseau The Room" level of acting, it took me a little time to distinguish the bad from the good.

However even i can tell that the Kai dub is twelve times better than the Z dub. Feels much more natural both on the script and delivery.
The Z dub starts as godawful from the Saiyan Saga, becomes mediocre on the late Freeza saga, then becomes almost good at the Buu Arc.
Z Dub is just ... earcringing to listen to, and especially now that we have the Kai dub, i would never go back to it.

Doesn't help that the Kai score is much better, yes even the replaced Kikuchi score is miles above Faulconer.

And i love a lot of tracks from the Faulconer Score (SSJ3 Theme and Gohan Angers are great pieces!) the only problem is that it never knows when to SHUT UP!!! There are almost no silent moments in the entire dub, it ruins a lot of powerful moments and i feel insulted.

Because it looks like they throught American children had attention disorders and needed costant ambient music playing, or else they would switch channel.

[Kakarot88]

I would not compare our take on the characters to the professional dub.

I would lol! Maybe I am just a sucker for acting that comes from those who are greener because it feels more genuine to me and I can connect with it. Y'all do some great homage to a lot of the styles of the original Z dub (mainly Piccolo his yells are spot friggen on! with all the gravel that many fans hate but I absolutely love) so maybe that's why I like y'all better than the vets in Kai and better than some of the newer people like Clinkenbeard.

I mean the first Star Wars movies are so good with those green horns (save Vader) cuz they were just tapping into how they would feel and becoming the role rather than just playing a part which is how Kai sounds...here we go again, let's dial it back and try and do simmilar enough voices to keep the kids happy. (Being glib of course cuz I know the actors care very much)

It just really struck me how much more I enjoy y'all's performances. Even though it is a parody it feels more like Z than Kai does. I always thought it was cuz of Kai's music with the US voices as I don't even like that option on the Dragon Boxes or bricks (only Japanese music with Japanese voices for me)... but I've come to realize I am just not a fan of the reserved generic voiced acting of Kai. Sure that's what a lot of people like and I respect that, especially the scrpit accuracy but for me it comes up short becuase Z is over the top! 10 times earth's normal gravity and a 4 year old chasing dinosaurs is friggen absurd!

I like each person being distinct and gritty or just being a character. Dragon Ball is filled with characters not people. I don't know any Vegetas or Gokus cuz those types of people just do not exist or could function in our society lol so to make it reserved in an effort to make what is absurd seem real is just well absurd lol.

I like Goku being a high pitched spaz (not that MasakoX is a spaz but he is perfectly Goku spazy and prob my 3rd fav Goku (Nozawa #1 and Schemmel #2)... I mean honestly when I read Dragon Ball I had a diff voice inb my head than the Ocean dub portrayed and when Sean hit it in full gear when he busted out laughing at Trunks being Vegeta and Bulma's son I was like "Damn! He IS Goku!" It's why I love the real Masako the most cuz she does that whole spazy over the top stuff that is devoid in Kai. I mean seriously the orginal versions of Goku Sean did had some very unGoku lines but he sounded like Goku cuz he was so spazzy and over the top I just love that as that is the manga to me!

I respect your opinion though and am glad y'all are such dedicated fans

All that being said I am excited for the boo arc in kai

[Ringworm128]

I go with Kai. I'm actually pretty sick of people saying things like "the TFS cast is better than the actual cast" and "even after 10 years Funi still gets outdone by a fandub".

While I have great respect for and idolize TFS's cast I don't think they're as good as their Funimation counterparts.

MasakoX as Goku and Gohan: While good I wouldn't even put him as my favorite parody Goku (that would go to Gozar) let alone my favorite Goku. I've constantly heard people say he's the best English Goku official or not and how he should replace Sean Schemmel. And honestly I hear nothing in his performance that I don't think Schemmel could do, not to mention MasakoX doesn't sound as convincing in more serious material such as the Super Man vs Goku Death Battle. As for his Gohan, yeah it's clearly something that's made for a parody.

Lanipator as Vegeta, Krillin and Piccolo: His Vegeta just sounds like a lose Sabat impression, he gets down the prick aspect but he doesn't have the stubborn pride filled tone that Sabat has. His Krillin is something that really would only work in a parody. It's just to high pitch and exaggerated. His Piccolo is pretty good but once again nothing the real voice actor couldn't do himself.

[Kakarot88]

I go with Kai. I'm actually pretty sick of people saying things like "the TFS cast is better than the actual cast" and "even after 10 years Funi still gets outdone by a fandub".

I just really find the acting in Kai to feel like acting and not like characters. It does not feel as up beat and peppy as Z is suppsoed to be and more like a brooding anime. Masako Nozawa is my favorite Goku but I prefer Sean by the Freeza arc and onward...however, I found his performance in Kai to be way way way too serious and he makes his voice very deep instead of the spazzy kid like character that Goku is and Masako Nozawa nails. I agree MasakoX is not the best Goku which was evident in the Superman vs. Goku fight but my statement as a whole is simply that Kai feels less like Z than Adbriged does because Abridged maintains that goofy charm that Kai through out (an rightly so for all intents and purposes).

The script in Kai is leaps and bounds better and everyone else on this forum as well as the actors tend to agree that the acting is better as well. But for me the acting feels like the actors lost sight of how light hearted and absurd Z is in an effort to make the series a serious drama. I mean we have plant men blow up people, four year old running with saber tooth tigers, dogs ruling the world, a death hierarchy system similar to the DMV, our hero is a hero because of head trauma , and a fat pink blob eating human candy...dragon ball z is a far far cry from anything as serious as Kai has made it.

But yeah Sonny Strait and Sabat are my fav American counterparts to their individual characters despite my opinion that Sabat holds back too much in many of the newer scenes. By contrats, Strait is the same ole Kuririn which I love and is diff from Mayumi Tanaka for sure but it works! I mean Sabat def is better a lot of the time but he is not Toshio Furukawa and is original delivery to me was good and how he does it now just feels like Piccolo has the uncle piccolo vocie for the entire series rather than as a gradual progression. I think he was also trying to go for a Ryo Horikawa like feel for Veget as well but I don;t know why, Horikawa is Horikawa and no one can be him, it'd be like someone else trying to do Heath ledger's Joker...just don't do...do your own take on the character. I love Sabat as Vegeta in Z but his Kai performance felt more like just an angry dude than a priedful prince whose entire existence was brought into question upon meeting Son Goku. Sure, he prob never consciously thought these things when doing the first dub but that's what made these green horns so much better for so many scenes they sound genuine and not like contrived performances. Kai just seems to over think the drama.

All in all I am saying that for me Kai feels less like Z than I was hoping for so I prefer the original funi dub with all its antic as well as of course the proper Japanese dub (for obvious reasons) over Kai and to that end I would also say TFS is better because at the very least those actors are able to still capture the off beat light hearted essence that make Z memorable.

I appreciate your opinion and like all of these competing veiws. I just want to clarify that I am not saying TFS has all better actors, I think they are great but not better, what I am saying is that their rendition has at many times felt more like Z than Kai has...and I know most disagree but hey that's my take on the series I love.

I've never, nor can I see Dragon Ball as a serious drama which is the direction it feels like Kai has gone for, but different strokes for different folks, we all will get something different out of it when we read it and what we feel when we see it animated and acted.

[Ringworm128]

That's what I love about Kai, even though it's an over the top show the writers, directors and actors took it seriously and it helps immerse you into the world. It's like Metal Gear even though there's a villain who can read minds and one that can control bee's and many other villains with over the top powers not to mention a bit of forth wall breaking it's still taken seriously and as a result you never feel sucked out.