"Explain why DBZ is bad."

[thatdbzguy]

I think its fine you have issues with DBZ, but you're posts come across with a lot of self-pity and depression towards liking it. I don't mean to be rude, but if liking a particular TV Show is the most worrysome thing in your life - you've actually got a damn good life.

I never said I had a bad life, but okay.

I know you didn't, but its the way you come across. You come across as having some major depression and self-pity because you enjoy DBZ.

Which, admittedly, isn't too far from the truth.

[Gonstead]

The story is the most important thing in a story. If it sucks, then you fail as a piece of literature.

But Dragon Ball's source material is a manga, which uses art in tandem with literature. Instead of bashing the story like a dead horse, why not tell us your say on the art?

The art is no more important than the story.

In the case of the Manga, it actually is. You can have a great story but if the art is shite, it can turn people off.

[thatdbzguy]

DB is designed to be enjoyed with your brain shut off

So basically, it's meant to be bad.

[thatdbzguy]

The art is no more important than the story.

In the case of the Manga, it actually is. You can have a great story but if the art is shite, it can turn people off.

And vice versa.

[Kaboom]

I can't think of any way to respond to all this except to say... so what?

Not being a 100% coherent masterpiece with a rich and complex plot and believable characters doesn't make something, pardon the quotes, "objectively bad." It's a goofy comic/cartoon aimed at preteen boys. The main character, and several others who take after him, are simple-minded muscle heads who often make bad decisions because they forgo common sense in favor of the thrill of battle. The author flubbed up some plot things here and there because he wrote most of the story by the seat of his pants, and was often coerced into making changes by outside influences.

No, Dragon Ball's not a particularly deep story, and yes, it's plagued by some flaws. The glorious almighty Breaking Bad has its goof-ups here and there too. EVERY piece of fiction has its minor mistakes, inconsistencies, and required suspension of disbelief. Dragon Ball is no more guilty of these things than anything else, nor should it be held to harsher standards than any of these show. Heck, if anything, as a goofy cartoon for 12-year-old boys it shouldn't be held to standards as high as other works that are, if nothing else, more carefully planned.

I'm not saying your points aren't correct or have no merit. Your argument's just kind of... well, pointless. Frankly, I'm not sure what you're trying to accomplish by popping into a Dragon Ball forum and trying to convince its members that Dragon Ball is a bad show.

[Gonstead]

DB is designed to be enjoyed with your brain shut off

So basically, it's meant to be bad.

So basically what you mean is if you can't just sit back and watch something without tying to criticize something at every opportunity, it's bad?

[Weejus]

The story is the most important thing in a story. If it sucks, then you fail as a piece of literature.

But Dragon Ball's source material is a manga, which uses art in tandem with literature. Instead of bashing the story like a dead horse, why not tell us your say on the art?

The art is no more important than the story.

I never said it was more important. In a manga, the artwork is just as vital as the writing. So I'll ask you again. What is your opinion on the art?

[Saiga]

People aren't refuting your points because honestly, that's not the biggest thing that's wrong about this. It's your conclusion. You've come to the conclusion the the series is objectively bad, and it doesn't matter what points you use to try and back this up, because the reasoning itself is faulty. That's what a number of people have been saying to you already. The points could be addressed specifically, and debated upon, but that would become a discussion of opinion, and that's not really going to work until you can recognize that yours is an opinion.

[B]

DB is designed to be enjoyed with your brain shut off

So basically, it's meant to be bad.

So basically, it's aimed at five-year-olds. There is such a thing called "demographics." You sound upset that something not necessarily aimed at you for its target audience doesn't live up to your expectations.

[thatdbzguy]

I can't think of any way to respond to all this except to say... so what?
Heck, if anything, as a goofy cartoon for 12-year-old boys it shouldn't be held to standards as high as other works that are, if nothing else, more carefully planned.

So it shouldn't be held to the standards of good stories.

[thatdbzguy]

DB is designed to be enjoyed with your brain shut off

So basically, it's meant to be bad.

So basically, it's aimed at five-year-olds. There is such a thing called "demographics." You sound upset that something not necessarily aimed at you for its target audience doesn't live up to your expectations.

Being aimed at five-year-olds does not excuse abysmal writing quality.

[Kaboom]

So it shouldn't be held to the standards of good stories.

When it comes to works of art and fiction, "good" is almost entirely subjective.

[Weejus]

So it shouldn't be held to the standards of good stories.

When it comes to works of art and fiction, "good" is almost entirely subjective.

This entire argument will never be put to rest unless there is a definite, absolute, unquestionable stance held by everyone on what 'good' is. And that is never going to happen.

[B]

Being aimed at five-year-olds does not excuse abysmal writing quality.

Well, I already addressed nothing you said was actual proof of that, and Kaboom summed it all up with a nice "so what?" You're hitting a dead end and haven't elaborated why anything you've said points to the series being "abysmal."

[thatdbzguy]

So it shouldn't be held to the standards of good stories.

When it comes to works of art and fiction, "good" is almost entirely subjective.

Then why is is that some shows are mostly loved by critics, and some shows are mostly hated by critics if it's all subjective?

Obviously, there are objective qualities that can be considered while reviewing a show. Not every single thing about shows are subjective.

[TheGmGoken]

Last I checked DBZ was widely considered to be the greatest anime/action cartoon of all time.

By who? 5-year-olds?

. Gurren Lagann is my favorite anime but damn it I consider DBZ to be the GOAT. I'm 17. Many people agree.
https://www.google.com/#q=dbz%20is%20th ... ime%20ever

https://www.google.com/#q=dbz+is+the+best+show+ever

These people are above 5 year old. We all know that DB-DBZ-GT isn't the greatest plot in the world. In fact it's one of the simple plots to follow. I rather have this than an anime-manga that tries to be creative but end up making things over complex or doing things just for the sake of the fact that it's unexpected. Your points while honestly great doesn't make DBZ bad. In fact it's what makes DBZ good. During the Summer I made a topic about how DBZ changed your anime lifestyle. Here are some responds which proves that DBZ's "Basic plot" is the reason why it's the GOAT. Before I do that you do realize that almost EVERY ANIME has a character that does something stupid in order to advance the plot. It's basic and easy writing.

By anime-life I mean the following:
Did it cause you to watch other anime or read manga?
Make you prefer a type of anime-manga
Plot of an anime - manga
Other - Your choice and explanations.

Okay part 3 of my studies that I'm doing for school(Summer project every student have to do. That's why I've made topics like this.).

DB isn't the first anime I've watched but it is the first anime that I LOVED. THat's with shows like YYHS, Cowboy bebop, Astro Boy, Barefoot, and Inyusha. All bootleg . Anyways something about dbz that I felt that made me really love it compared to the other anime my brother got me at the time. This manga-anime series got me into anime deeper than ever before

DB caused me to prefer Adventure styled stories and DBZ got me hooked on super natural styled. Cause of this DBZ has not been my favorite anime for a long time now. In fact not even in the top ten sadly =(. But I do hold it in a special place as it caused me to love anime-manga. Especially Super Natural and Adventure. The music also made me prefer a mixture of old school and new school.

DBZ made me learn that a plot doesn't have to be super detailed and in depth to be enjoy-able. Some series just can't have a detailed plot and it works really well. I might say better than detailed plots. Imagine if we got Goku saying in his speech "My power has increase 50x. I AM A SSJ! SON GOKU" or Math in every Boo Absorption on how much he increase. Hell imagine if everything those guidebooks have was stated. It would sound to complex and would feel wrong. Freeza: You can't beat me now! My power is at 120 million! Goku: Okay Piccolo. Fusion is A+B - Z = A+B times K - B divided by J. This is why I love that DB-DBZ wasn't all detailed and explained every bit of information possible. Many anime-manga I've read that I prefer over DB are not all that detailed or complex. It' s just a good enough plot that anyone can understand and good action.

I love this series so much. It made me realize what true work is. It's very different from your average day manga-anime. If Nozawa is correct and she is the first women to ever played an adult and kid voice together then I must say. That's unique. People hate on Goku's adult JPN voice but I must say. Great job Akria Toriyama. In most cases the hero wins the big prize. Goku lost twice before winning the budokai. In most cases the hero is the strongest character and it's easy to rank the characters. Not in DBZ! Birsu kicked his ass. Whis kick his ass. Gohan can kick his ass. Gotenks can. Piccolo can while he's in base. Not many manga-anime does that.

I'm sorry if I sounded like a little girl screaming for a pop star or a jizzing fanboy . But DBZ though not my favorite manga-anime. Is IMO the KING of all manga-anime. Nothing had such an impact on me that was fictional I just wanted to hear how this series right here impacted your anime-manga life.

I agree with you on this one. I can appreciate a series that has a plot that's not too convoluted and can be enjoyed as is. Dragon Ball tends to be nonsensical most of the time and isn't meant to be taken seriously, and I can appreciate that. I love series that are more in-depth such as Monster or Serial Experiments Lain, but sometimes, you just need that entertainment that doesn't require brain power to enjoy.

Overall, Dragon Ball's plot has allowed me to enjoy simpler plots in an anime or manga along with the more complex and in-depth series.

Sometimes I forget that other manga and anime exist.

Until Monday when I'm reminded that WSJ is updated, and I'm like, "oh, right, there's One Piece, too."

As you can see many people enjoy DBZ because it's not perfect. Because it's easy to follow. There is a reason why BoG was so successful. It's the fact that people STILL and will most likely ALWAYS love DBZ. If you think everyone hates DBZ or it's the laughing stock of anime. I hate to tell you that you're wrong. From what you've told us. Someone or a group disagreed with your opinion and you being the person that you are(Not an attack. We all different people) was affected by this and notice the hate more than the love. People love DBZ. BoG proves that, People asking for a new series proves that, Funimation MILKING the series proves that, and hell DBZ references in cartoons proves that. Why do people want NEW DBZ games. Cause they fucking love it.

If you judge the series for what it's meant to be, which is a fun action-comedy series made for kids and teens, it's a great series. But if you hold it up against series with a serious, complex plot, and heavy character development, then sure it's going to fall short. But that's like comparing a pop song to Beethoven's 5th symphony...

So basically, I shouldn't expect DBZ to be good.

No. You should't expect DBZ to have a plot that is well thought out. It's like expecting a song about money, "hoes", and having sex to have the same intense music as Beethoven.

I think the fact that nobody here can refute the points I made in my first post just goes to show how bad DBZ is.

Ok. Please tell me this. Do you like DBZ? Cause everyone points out it flaws. Even fucking casuals. You sound like you fucking hate the damn series. People refuted your points. If you think the show is fucking bad. Then got damn it don't fucking watch it. If you like the show like you fucking claim to do so then stop bitching and moaning that the series sucks! Everyone hate DBZ! It's the laughing stock(When it clearly isn't)! It doesn't have a plot that explains everything! If you really like the series you would't be complaining that a group of people(JUST LIKE EVERYTHING ELSE ON THE DAMN INTERNET!) disagreed with you and start exaggerating how bad the series is. If the series sucked so bad why you watching it? Why join a DBZ website. Why the hell don't you just go watch some other anime or cartoon. Why don't you stop being so damn depressed because someone don't like DBZ.

[thatdbzguy]

Being aimed at five-year-olds does not excuse abysmal writing quality.

You're hitting a dead end and haven't elborated why anything you've said points to the series being "abysmal."

Have you not read the very first post in this topic?

[Weejus]

So it shouldn't be held to the standards of good stories.

When it comes to works of art and fiction, "good" is almost entirely subjective.

Then why is is that some shows are mostly loved by critics, and some shows are mostly hated by critics if it's all subjective?

Obviously, there are objective qualities that can be considered while reviewing a show. Not every single thing about shows are subjective.

Because it's entirely possible for a lot of people to share the same opinion on something, but when evaluating something else for those same people to have a wide range of opinions.

[DBZAOTA482]

I think the fact that nobody here can refute the points I made in my first post just goes to show how bad DBZ is.

I could but I didn't feel like doing it.

[B]

Then why is is that some shows are mostly loved by critics, and some shows are mostly hated by critics if it's all subjective?

Couldn't this be turned around on you, and we could just say DB is mostly loved by fans?

Being aimed at five-year-olds does not excuse abysmal writing quality.

You're hitting a dead end and haven't elborated why anything you've said points to the series being "abysmal."

Have you not read the very first post in this topic?

You listed things you don't like; not why you didn't like them. "Blankety blank is stupid."