Schemmel never heard Nozawa till 2004

[B]

That's sad to hear, but it's not like it's his fault. He's an actor doing what he's told.

It's pretty clear now that someone is listening to the Japanese performances or we wouldn't have the quality dubbing going on.

[eledoremassis02]

It's not his job to do research though, at all. If anything it's a director's job to help guide the actor into where they're trying to go with the performance, and an actor's job to try and meet those expectations while also trying to bring something of themselves to the table. His 'not researching' isn't laziness in any shape or fashion, especially not when, say what you will about it, going for exactly the same feeling as the Japanese was not FUNimation of the time's intention. Playing Goku was first and foremost a job, and if he wanted to keep the job, he would have had to follow what the company wanted.

I wonder if he watched clips of Kelmais and Corletts Goku as Kelamis stated he was given epsiodes to try and match Corletts voice

[Kakacarrottop]

It's not his job to do research though, at all. If anything it's a director's job to help guide the actor into where they're trying to go with the performance, and an actor's job to try and meet those expectations while also trying to bring something of themselves to the table. His 'not researching' isn't laziness in any shape or fashion, especially not when, say what you will about it, going for exactly the same feeling as the Japanese was not FUNimation of the time's intention. Playing Goku was first and foremost a job, and if he wanted to keep the job, he would have had to follow what the company wanted.

I wonder if he watched clips of Kelmais and Corletts Goku as Kelamis stated he was given epsiodes to try and match Corletts voice

No doubt. The entire original FUNi cast were literally only hired to imitate the Ocean Group actors so people wouldn't notice the change in actors. Even Faulconer and his team were imitating the Shuki Levy score so Season 3 wouldn't sound too different from the first two seasons.

[eledoremassis02]

No doubt. The entire original FUNi cast were literally only hired to imitate the Ocean Group actors so people wouldn't notice the change in actors. Even Faulconer and his team were imitating the Shuki Levy score so Season 3 wouldn't sound too different from the first two seasons.

I know they tried but I just remember the first episode of their dub and everything being so different. I think Kirillin and gohan and King Kai were the closest and Vegeta was pretty close in terms of pitch and raspyness

[TheWhiz]

Mimicking the original actor is stupid, especially if you can't do it. An actor's job is to make the role their own, not copy another actor.

Then you would hire someone who does play the part. It's a dub, not an origianl work; it is supposed to be a near identical experience of the original so the audience doesn't miss out on the original intent. I hate how, because of FUNi's mishandling of DBZ, that people assume it is okay to be different in a dub by a large margin. It's insulting to the original creators.

Funny, the Ocean actors were privy to the Japanese original. It is no wonder that the reason their performances were closer to the original is because they were aware of it and tried to do it justice with the material they had (especially for the films like Dead Zone; that dub is spot on at well over 90 percent accuracy in voice matching).

But let me get this through to the people who disagree that the dub is free from the original: it isn't. It's meant to be the same experience without the language barrier. It's a dub, not an original work.

No wonder FUNi's in-house episodes were god awful! At least if they could see the Japanese cast acting, they could mimic the Japanese cast's inflections and acting... All the more reason to say that the Ocean cast is more definitive than the FUNi cast. The Ocean cast had the original in mind and based their acting off of. Kelamis even states how he was watching the episodes in Japanese (refering to Goku's naked arse in the Namek arc), and how the screams were tough to pull off accurately. He did, however, base his voice off of Nozawa (and that's why his was the closer to the original than Schemmel's will ever be).

And I disagree with basically everything you said. A dub's job is to make a good version of the show, not try to copy the original. Wasting time trying to mimic Nozawa is stupid when you can do your own perfectly good take on the character. This isn't criticism of the Japanese cast, it's saying that it is a pointless endeavor to try to force a cast that speaks a totally different language, one with its own unique quirks and inflections, to sound like that of another language.

It's not insulting to anyone. They aren't doing this because they think they are better than the original cast; they're doing it because trying to copy the original cast is limiting the possibility of their performances. If anything, it's demeaning to the dub cast to have to restrict their performance to mimicking the originals.

I mean, and not to be gruesome or anything, if Nozawa were to die, would you rather Goku be played by someone who just can't quite pull off her take on Goku, or someone who has a new take on him that stays true to the character, and makes him their own?

And no, I do not think the Ocean cast is better than Funimation's current efforts by any degree, if at all. And one of the biggest problems with Funimation's cast early on was that they were forced to mimic the Ocean cast, instead of making the roles their own.

In summation, limiting your actors is stupid. You want to strive for, or to surpass, the quality of the original; you don't want to try to make a carbon copy of it.

You're pretty much correct on this Kamiccilo.

[Mewzard]

Considering the Funi crew started off with inexperienced people told to imitate experienced Canadian Voice Actors by an inexperienced voice director with scripts made by people who had no access to the Japanese script and a score meant to evoke the feel of the old score...it's a straight up miracle these people could grow to give us a fairly faithfully done script acted out by experienced voice actors doing less copied voices and by an experience voice director.

They turned things around so extremely. Hell, early on, Schemmel probably couldn't do much research given he was desperate for money during Goku's time in the healing chamber and going through some personal issues.

But now? He's the one who insisted on fixing Kaio-Ken's pronunciation, and did a take of his own volition with "I am the Super Saiyan, Son Goku!" even though it wasn't in the script, and Sabat kept it.

I'd say the improved scripts, improved actors' skill, improved voice direction, and keeping the original score are what caused much of the improvement for Kai (though I don't doubt they might have taken some cues or pronunciations, as best they could, from the Japanese version of Kai).

Schemmel never having heard Nozawa's performances until 2004 doesn't speak against him personally. His vast improvement and love for the fandom in this day and age is what speaks for him fondly.

Schemmel's performance these days may only have so much influence from Nozawa compared to some countries...but it works for Goku now. It really does. Everything in Kai, in Battle of the Gods, it came together to really work. You don't need a mediocre mimic, you need a great performance regardless of similarities to the original.

Schemmel seemed to love Nozawa's work from what we saw at the panels with the Japanese Cast, and had a blast meeting her.

A more vindictive person might not enjoyed her company unfairly after having the complaints some people lobbed at the man (some with respect, other...not so much). But Schemmel didn't, he showed great respect, and spoke to her the way you might expect some fans to.

He may not be perfect, but he's an improving actor doing his best in a series he definitely loves here and now.

[Kakacarrottop]

Also like i've been trying to elaborate in my other posts in this thread, the thread title really should be something along the lines of "Corlett has still never heard Nozawa blah blah blah". Really he is the one who should be blamed for Goku's current voice, not Schemmel. He's the one who didn't care enough at the start and who just slapped on a Superman voice instead of adding elements from Nozawa's performance.

[Attitudefan]

Also like i've been trying to elaborate in my other posts in this thread, the thread title really should be something along the lines of "Corlett has still never heard Nozawa blah blah blah". Really he is the one who should be blamed for Goku's current voice, not Schemmel. He's the one who didn't care enough at the start and who just slapped on a Superman voice instead of adding elements from Nozawa's performance.

And he left. I share no sympathy for Corlette either. He was a jerk when it came to DBZ. I feel sorry for Kelamis, who really tried to give the character justice, until FUNi cast him aside like the other actors in such a non-professional way, doing things behind their back and replacing them with amateurs.

[Kakacarrottop]

Even if they weren't asked to copy the Ocean actors they'd still be terrible initially since they were all literally random people hired off the street with no prior acting experience, in stark contrast to Ocean's cast.

Which is why I said "one of the biggest problems." They weren't allowed to grow as actors until they stopped being force to copy the cast before them.

Couldn't they have "grown as actors" off-screen? did we really have to hear their awful first attempts at acting on TV and Video? Heck Schemmel didn't even redub his Season 3 lines so whenever someone watches the Freeza Saga in English they have to put up with his amateur acting from back then.

[Straw]

Huh. That's weird.

I remember an interview from way, way back in the day (like, 2000) that was on Daizenshuu EX where Schemmel had mentioned he had seen some of the Japanese version and liked what he had seen.

Either I have an extremely good memory or I'm pulling this out of thin air. But I feel like the FUNi cast, even under Barry Watson, had seen SOME of the original before 2004.

[eledoremassis02]

Huh. That's weird.

I remember an interview from way, way back in the day (like, 2000) that was on Daizenshuu EX where Schemmel had mentioned he had seen some of the Japanese version and liked what he had seen.

Either I have an extremely good memory or I'm pulling this out of thin air. But I feel like the FUNi cast, even under Barry Watson, had seen SOME of the original before 2004.

Corlette and Kelamis both states they saw some Japanese clips in order to get lines and or inflections right. So there must have been some Japanese material somewhere? It may have just been Tree of Might (since they both dubbed that?)

[ABED]

Considering the Funi crew started off with inexperienced people told to imitate experienced Canadian Voice Actors by an inexperienced voice director with scripts made by people who had no access to the Japanese script and a score meant to evoke the feel of the old score

I thought they did have access to the Japanese scripts, but they were horribly translated, and even that wasn't the bulk of the reason why we got dub scripts as horrible as we did. It was a conscious effort to "beef up the comedy".

<br abp="945">No doubt. The entire original FUNi cast were literally only hired to imitate the Ocean Group actors so people wouldn't notice the change in actors. Even Faulconer and his team were imitating the Shuki Levy score so Season 3 wouldn't sound too different from the first two seasons.

I know they tried but I just remember the first episode of their dub and everything being so different. I think Kirillin and gohan and King Kai were the closest and Vegeta was pretty close in terms of pitch and raspyness

Still, it was EASILY noticeable how different everything was (e.g. how cheap it all came out). Even the quality of the recordings in season 3 were low. Sabat might have gotten close in terms of pitch and raspiness, but it's a terrible Drummond imitation.

I think if FUNi gave the actors good scripts, had a good director, and had not only not asked actors to sound like a previous cast, but had not actively sought out actors with those voices in mind, that would have mitigated much of the terribleness of those episodes. Actors familiar with the source material isn't necessary, but directors should be.

[eledoremassis02]

I think if FUNi gave the actors good scripts, had a good director, and had not only not asked actors to sound like a previous cast, but had not actively sought out actors with those voices in mind, that would have mitigated much of the terribleness of those episodes. Actors familiar with the source material isn't necessary, but directors should be.

That is true. How long did it take for the first DVDs of inhouse funi to come out? Since they had english translation and japanese audio, did they ever start working with them later on in the show?

[ABED]

I think if FUNi gave the actors good scripts, had a good director, and had not only not asked actors to sound like a previous cast, but had not actively sought out actors with those voices in mind, that would have mitigated much of the terribleness of those episodes. Actors familiar with the source material isn't necessary, but directors should be.

That is true. How long did it take for the first DVDs of inhouse funi to come out? Since they had english translation and japanese audio, did they ever start working with them later on in the show?

The first VHS's of the in house dub came out around May 1999, and the first DVD came out in late June 2000. They probably would've been deep into dubbing season 4 at the time. The quality of the scripts changed over time. Season 3 is the dub at its worst, it got noticeably better through season 4 and there are parts of the Buu arc that are very accurate.

[eledoremassis02]

I think if FUNi gave the actors good scripts, had a good director, and had not only not asked actors to sound like a previous cast, but had not actively sought out actors with those voices in mind, that would have mitigated much of the terribleness of those episodes. Actors familiar with the source material isn't necessary, but directors should be.

That is true. How long did it take for the first DVDs of inhouse funi to come out? Since they had english translation and japanese audio, did they ever start working with them later on in the show?

The first VHS's of the in house dub came out around May 1999, and the first DVD came out in late June 2000. They probably would've been deep into dubbing season 4 at the time. The quality of the scripts changed over time. Season 3 is the dub at its worst, it got noticeably better through season 4 and there are parts of the Buu arc that are very accurate.

Thanks! I started watching Z on toonami since they started airing it since I watched it on (Ch.11?) before hand and then on and off around the Cell games and stopped after Majin Vegeta

[ShadowDude112]

bwakh

Hahahaha. I get it. Cause that's what it sounds like when she makes a sound sometimes. Hahaha. You're funny. It was just as funny as the hundreds of other times you did it.

[VegettoEX]

And he left. I share no sympathy for Corlette either. He was a jerk when it came to DBZ. I feel sorry for Kelamis, who really tried to give the character justice, until FUNi cast him aside like the other actors in such a non-professional way, doing things behind their back and replacing them with amateurs.

I... don't think you understand any of the professional situations they're talking about.

For starters, people are allowed to leave their jobs in search of other, more-fruitful/fulfilling endeavors. I don't know who you are or how old you are or where you're at in your life, but at some point, you're going to swap jobs of your own accord.

While I certainly hold opinions about the quality of the production that happened after, FUNimation's swapping voice actor pools had nothing to do with being "unprofessional" and everything to do with "Saban's gone; we can't afford this anymore; it's either we stop entirely or we do something different". That's pretty professional to me.

[UltimateHammerBro]

If you allow me a side note, I think that the general public gives the voice actors too much blame for things which aren't their fault. This isn't exclusive to this topic, but I've noticed it here too, mainly dealing with the fact that Schemmel didn't hear Nozawa.

If a VA isn't able to hear the original performance, that's bad, but it's not their fault and they aren't being unprofessional, but the company's (assuming that they have received the original version but just decide not to show it to the actors).
If the voice or accent they choose for a character doesn't fit it well, (most of the times) they're not the ones to blame, but whoever made that choice (which may range between the dubbing director to the client which makes requests).
If there are errors in the script, the blame (assuming that they get a good script in the original language to begin with) should go to either the translator (if they're translation mistakes), the person who makes the adaptation (if the mistakes have to do with lip-locking) or whoever made the choice to make changes in the script (if they're attempts to spice the dialogue up or add comedy in DBZ Season 3 style).

VAs are actors, and their job is to give a good performance. Thus, the only thing they can really be blamed for is giving a bad performance. In fact, bad performances may sometimes be the result of rushed work or short deadlines: a director may ask them to repeat it until they feel the acting is good enough.

[Attitudefan]

And he left. I share no sympathy for Corlette either. He was a jerk when it came to DBZ. I feel sorry for Kelamis, who really tried to give the character justice, until FUNi cast him aside like the other actors in such a non-professional way, doing things behind their back and replacing them with amateurs.

I... don't think you understand any of the professional situations they're talking about.

For starters, people are allowed to leave their jobs in search of other, more-fruitful/fulfilling endeavors. I don't know who you are or how old you are or where you're at in your life, but at some point, you're going to swap jobs of your own accord.

While I certainly hold opinions about the quality of the production that happened after, FUNimation's swapping voice actor pools had nothing to do with being "unprofessional" and everything to do with "Saban's gone; we can't afford this anymore; it's either we stop entirely or we do something different". That's pretty professional to me.

I've been in that situation. Well, you're right! I was in the mood for ranting. However, he did make some of his problems with Ocean and FUNimation which could be seen as unprofessional. He is a public figure.

Except, FUNimation had been looking for "talent" since 1996 or 1997 in Texas, long before they actually dropped the Canadian cast.

[VegettoEX]

Corlett never disparaged the series or its fans. He simply stated that the pure voice actors were not getting paid enough, he was looking to up his game (read: income), and that he wanted something more fulfilling and had the opportunity to do so with production and writing. Good on him.

You have your years wrong; things moved more quickly than you think. FUNimation was still actively producing via Saban into 1998; the tail-end of "season two" ended in early 1998. It was that same year that FUNimation started looking to bring things in-house and hired folks like Sabat (once Saban left). 1998 saw "Sleeping Princess in Devil's Castle" as their first exclusively-in-house production (on VHS), and then 1999 gave us "season three" of the DBZ dub.