Would Z have been as successful on US TV if JPN BGM was kept

[Valerius Dover]

^I know and understand what you're saying, but the fact remains that Dragon Ball Z Kai airs with the Kikuchi score no problem, showing that it still would've been successful with it intact.

[Cold Skin]

^ Well, yeah, as I said, I'm not sure the music is enough to have an impact on success or failure of anything (except things BASED on music like musicals).
But it still either "works" or "doesn't work" as far as the music quality goes, althought it might not impact the success (or lack thereof).

[EXBadguy]

I'd say yes and no. While there could be a possibility that it might be still successful, the music itself would cause a mixed reception from the general public(I put it in bolds just to ensure that you guys understand the difference).

The movies though, that's another story. If Kikuchi's music was used for most of them, they would have never become popular at all. That's why you had many people loving the "unofficial" rock soundtrack for some of the movies and bitched about Toonami not adding the rock music in the Broly movie. C'mon, MOST people would agree with that a Saiyan tank smashing stuff + rock/metal = epic movie. I understand why Toonami took that off, but it still sucks.

Heck, Toei could've hired a different composer for the movies for all I know, or push Kikuchi harder to make more modern music.

I don't think it would have worked so well, because the US got into Dragon Ball quite late. But I don't know if music is enough to impact the success or failure of a product.
There's a reason why, whether it's Funimation or Toei, they thought "wow, the music has to be replaced by something more suitable for today": Kikuchi's BGM sounds old, too old.
It's like "would the new Mario games work if you copy-pasted the NES tune from the first Mario game as-is, without reorchestration?". Nostalgic fans would be happy, others would not be.

Kikuchi sounds stripped, flat, it mostly sounds like midi trying to be orchestra and recorded on tape, it's very rare to have music that can take you out of the experience because it sounds ridiculously like the 30s or something. Basically, the sound itself sounds old and poor, and that's the problem because the composition itself is legendary.
Basically, even though I enjoy all Japanese scores since then, I have to wonder: why hasn't Toei simply re-recorded Kikuchi's tracks with better sound from nowadays' standards?

The sound is atrocious, dated, like an old tape playing flat instruments, but the composition is legendary and has become so for a reason and is already "owned" by Toei.
Toei would likely have much less to pay if they chose to pay a re-orchestration rather than pay a new composer to make new tracks (which is necessary for a movie but not for a remaster like Kai).
If Kikuchi's tracks were re-recorded in better, more dynamic, more striking sound quality (let's go for a full symphonic orchestra), everyone would be on board, as we would have compositions that are inspiring and emotional, AND a sound quality that has nothing to envy to big budget movies/games.

That being said, I'm quite happy with new tracks from new composers, so I'm not complaining.
But that really doesn't make a sense how a simple re-recording would be a much safer, money-saving and fan-satisfying solution that would get rid of the one and only problem: it all sounds OLD and flat. Just make it new and striking again, problem solved.

PUREACH!

[Kamiccolo9]

The movies though, that's another story. If Kikuchi's music was used for most of them, they would have never become popular at all.

It was used for the movies to begin with, as has already been mentioned here. No one complained about it then.

[EXBadguy]

The movies though, that's another story. If Kikuchi's music was used for most of them, they would have never become popular at all.

It was used for the movies to begin with, as has already been mentioned here. No one complained about it then.

Then which ones have they used the Kikuchi soundtrack first? I don't recall most of the Funimation version movies using the original soundtrack before.

[Kamiccolo9]

The movies though, that's another story. If Kikuchi's music was used for most of them, they would have never become popular at all.

It was used for the movies to begin with, as has already been mentioned here. No one complained about it then.

Then which ones have they used the Kikuchi soundtrack first? I don't recall most of the Funimation version movies using the original soundtrack before.

Dead Zone and The World's Strongest. The first time they aired on Toonami.

[MagicBox]

Would Z have been as successful on US TV if the JPN BGM was kept?

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. A thousand times, yes. Same for GT.

MagicBox vividly remembers his 12-year-old self preferring the music from "the Dead Zone movie that aired on TV" over any of the dub score, and that was before I knew the first thing about who composed what.

The show succeeded despite the changes, not because of them.

[eledoremassis02]

It depends..I mean for some people the U.S score is enough to stay away from the dub (thats why we have the Japanese music option). So it's not hard to believe people would feel that way about the japanese score. Though we'll never really know.

Same with Shuki music as well

[TVfan721]

^I know and understand what you're saying, but the fact remains that Dragon Ball Z Kai airs with the Kikuchi score no problem, showing that it still would've been successful with it intact.

Like I said before, were in a completely different era now. In 2015, the Kikuchi would no doubt be successful as we have already seen. We are talking about the 90's which was a very different time.

[SaiyaJedi]

Lots of people seem to have imprinted on whatever they heard first.

Unfortunately, this seems to have the side-effect of making them believe that everything else is inferior or that there's no way anyone could like something different. This is nostalgia, pure and simple.

People who like the original Japanese score aren't entirely immune to this thinking, either, but they at least have the fact that it's the original on their side, which allows them to evaluate it solely on its own merits, rather than whether it also makes a suitable replacement.

Personally, though, I do find people who hold up the Faulconer score or the NuMetal-infused movie soundtracks as an example of "doing things better" to be absolutely laughable. It may be simply because I was in my teens when the English dub came out, and already aware of the Japanese version by that point (not to mention heavily into '80s thrash metal and disdainful of the "NuMetal" sound in general); however, there's also an issue of perspective.

The score of Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z is part of a single, unbroken continuity that goes all the way back to the start of Dr. Slump in 1981. There's a remarkable consistency over those 15 years that gets completely obscured with all the musical tampering that goes on in the dub of Z. Some people complain that it sounds "old" (because, as we all know, only new things hold any value), but it's a product of its time, and I personally feel that it has held up far better (and become less "dated") that the various attempts at a replacement score over the years. (Is NuMetal even still a thing in this day and age?)

[Kamiccolo9]

^I know and understand what you're saying, but the fact remains that Dragon Ball Z Kai airs with the Kikuchi score no problem, showing that it still would've been successful with it intact.

Like I said before, were in a completely different era now. In 2015, the Kikuchi would no doubt be successful as we have already seen. We are talking about the 90's which was a very different time.

You act like the 90's was this forlorn era in which children could not stand music other than nonstop synth. The fact that essentially every other dub on the planet managed to successfully use the original music is pretty good evidence to the contrary.

[MagicBox]

It's absolutely nostalgia. If the show had aired in the US with one constant musical score (Kikuchi) for the entirety of its run, with no dub scores to speak of, people would have just (God forbid) watched the show for what it was and never given anything a second thought. Nobody watches Transformers and gives anything a second thought. Nobody watches Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles and gives anything a second thought. Nobody watches DuckTales and gives anything a second thought. The show is the show. If Kikuchi's score had been there from the beginning, you wouldn't be on the internet in 2015 questioning whether the music "fits" at all. You'd just have the show. All the nostalgia? You'd still have it. All the cool, memorable scenes? They're still there.

To say that Dragon Ball Z wouldn't be successful without the Faulconer crew would be to say that the Faulconer crew was the key to the show's success. It's not true. Never was true. Never will be true. YouTube dub fans are not the majority. Your average Joe buys the DBZ season sets at Wal-Mart, pops the disc in, and presses "play." They hear the Kikuchi score by default. The public is already being weaned off the replacement score. And they don't care. They're just watching Dragon Ball Z.

The show. Successful. Despite changes. Not because.

[GS7X7]

Hell yeah! Would have been more successful actually. I was the BIGGEST dub fan of all time til I got my hands on fansubs in college then it was the opposite. Pretty much EVERY person in my dorm I shared my subs with converted to the subbed version!

Look, the problem with score isn't that it's new or American- Sailor Moon has proven that you can make superior songs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OoNDrrQ0k6g

But it requires a good budget and a creator who takes the time to watch the original eps and listen to the original music. The dub has one musically superior film, Bardock, and one that's nigh-equal (Trunks, cept for the rap song) but usually they didn't work out right.

If Team Faulconer had been given the entire series to watch, told they could adapt a lot of the music to their own ends and try to keep the silence in then it would have been many times better.

[GS7X7]

-The original Dragonball did eventually air in the US in full with Kikuchi BGM, but failed to grab the level of attention that Z or even GT did. In Japan the original Dragonball was hugely popular, easily more than GT. This proves that there is at least some kind of difference in what audiences in different countries enjoy.

I'd argue the reason for Dragon Ball's lack of popularity was that it followed FUNi's Z. When you go from high octane action, 'badass' music, and some pretty modern looking animation, all the way back to gag-centric, more down-to-earth action, and a soundtrack entirely different to what fans were used to, it's no surprise it wasn't as popular.

The show works in its intended order because it's constantly upping the stakes with every arc. When you throw in all the other changes that FUNi made, it may as well have been a totally different show. I don't think that's anything to do with what different audience enjoy. It's to do with what people were used to and how the two shows were treated differently by FUNi, creating a very incongruous divide.

Dragon Ball came first in most countries- here it was seen as a "prequel" show. Beyond that, it doesn't have the same level of action and it relies a lot more on risque humor- most of which got censored and watered-down for Toonami.

[Man-Child]

Given the level of censorship and cheese the show was going through at the time, I'm not sure that Kikuchi's music would've fit all that well with Funimation/Saban's DBZ. Perhaps if Funi had been faithful from the beginning, it might've worked, but otherwise, I doubt it.

[Kakacarrottop]

I honestly don't think it would have made much of a difference, the only real difference would be Bruce Faulconer's bank balance. Kids watched the show because they wanted to see fighting, they didn't care about what music was playing in the background. If the show did originally air with the JPN music in the US then i think it would go down the same way as the Shuki Levy and Nathan Johnson scores did - People just wouldn't take much notice of it or have any strong feelings towards it.

[bleed0range]

Of course it would! I started watching it then and I saw a mixture of the dub and Japanese fan subs and I didn't mind the music at all. In fact I preferred, and still do, the Japanese music. They had all the wrong ideas about what needed to be edited to make the series popular. They were censoring too much, changing dialogue and music, etc. It was out of touch and overkill. Partially because of the doubt arisen by Dragon Ball not doing well but we all know that would never have been as popular anyway and it had a horrible time slot.

Stick DBZ on Toonami with original music and it would have been just as big of a deal.

[BlazingFiddlesticks]

Let me just tell you, Youtube proves how much people like Faulconer and shit on Kai....

YouTube represents a very small minority of fans. They hardly represent a general consensus.

Perhaps, but quite frankly, neither does Kanzenshuu.

I think we need to remember this. Some people will take anything too hard, but last I checked most of the super purist battles have been won. Aside from a non-collector's releases that doesn't look like garbage, granted.

Of course, we also have a 130-post "Favorite Faulconer Track" thread, so that is indicative of something.

But that really doesn't make a sense how a simple re-recording would be a much safer, money-saving and fan-satisfying solution that would get rid of the one and only problem: it all sounds OLD and flat. Just make it new and striking again, problem solved.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJHwSVQsJYQ

What a taste of what could be (second link still works, I might add!)

[DBZAOTA482]

It would have done just as well. After all, nobody watched DBZ for the soundtrack (though it can be the icing on the cake). People watched it for the high-octane fight scenes, and cool characters.

[Kakacarrottop]

Let me just tell you, Youtube proves how much people like Faulconer and shit on Kai....

YouTube represents a very small minority of fans. They hardly represent a general consensus.

Youtube is one of the largest, most popular sites in the history of the internet and the most viewed Dragon Ball related video has about 30 million views or something, i'm pretty sure it represents a large percentage of fans. This site, which only has a few hundred members, represents a small minority of fans.